I keep thinking we'll see Saint wheels. At any rate, XT has 20mm, and is pretty much the same rim as XTR just no scandium.
Shimano XTR Trail 2011
- Thread starter frango
- Start date
I got to see the trail XTR last weekend, the fins on the caliper are a lot smaller and not as bad looking in person, the new pedals I will have ordered very soon, the rest will be as soon as I can afford it.
CRC has the prices up for most of the new 980 XTR. Prices are right on par or lower than with the 970. Pedals are like 115$
It will be a few weeks before I order it all.
Fashion Victim!
Joking apart, the new XTR trail components are the best looking components I have ever seen in my 15+ years in the MTB scene (the first edition m900 is really nice too, espacially the cranket). Of course I can't comment on the performance, but should be right on par with XTR quality, which is stellar. On that note, the Trail brakeset looks PIMP!
I got to squeeze my Shimano guy for wholesale price for trail pedalsCRC has the prices up for most of the new 980 XTR. Prices are right on par or lower than with the 970. Pedals are like 115$
I paid 50% of this amount for my Syncros AM Traverse pedals and they still hold up Have not been giddy for shimano in a long time, this changed that a little anyways.
XT's are heaaaavy.
That looks promising. Probably my next set of pedals
...I've been trying to post a pic from Sicklines, but I gave up :|
Anyway, new 2011 XTR Trail pedals weigh 375g.
http://www.sicklines.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/15882/size/big/cat/
...I've been trying to post a pic from Sicklines, but I gave up :|
Anyway, new 2011 XTR Trail pedals weigh 375g.
http://www.sicklines.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/15882/size/big/cat/
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here's a question... XTR model num's are up to 980... and seeing as how the grouppo started at 900, they are getting close to topping out the 9xx range. Then what?
xtr one million
2011=980
2012=990 Then, the end.
The Japanese follow the Mayan calender.
2012=990 Then, the end.
The Japanese follow the Mayan calender.
haha,
here's a bunch more 2011 XTR weights for those curious
http://www.sicklines.com/2010/08/24/verified-weights-2011-shimano-m980-xtr/
here's a bunch more 2011 XTR weights for those curious
http://www.sicklines.com/2010/08/24/verified-weights-2011-shimano-m980-xtr/
There was a big test 9 different disc brakes in December German Bike Magazine.
Funny thing happened during lab test... a new, triple layer rotor as well as pards with radiator melted :O
Since I can't speak German, I can't give any details.
But, if any german-english Monkey could read and summarize at least what Shimano PR and tester say and post it here, it would be great. We could all laugh or so
Scans here
http://hostuje.net/file.php?id=928f3087fd6ebf8450a74f2597cb0f34
write requested code and click "Pobierz Plik" (NOT "download") to get rar file.
img049.jpg
Funny thing happened during lab test... a new, triple layer rotor as well as pards with radiator melted :O
Since I can't speak German, I can't give any details.
But, if any german-english Monkey could read and summarize at least what Shimano PR and tester say and post it here, it would be great. We could all laugh or so
Scans here
http://hostuje.net/file.php?id=928f3087fd6ebf8450a74f2597cb0f34
write requested code and click "Pobierz Plik" (NOT "download") to get rar file.
img049.jpg
The "XTR Melt-down" happened firstly at Fade-Test when constant hand force of 115N was applied on brake lever as many times as needed either to reach maximum of 40 cycles or critical temperature of 400*C was gained and test must have been cancelled. Both XTR XC with organic pads and XTR Trail with metalic pads melted the aluminium "core" of their Ice-Tec-Rotors (alu-core seems to be the alu part of rotor?) and disc rotors deformed!
Practical-test only confirmed the result of Fade-test from lab. During the test ride, all Ice-Tec-Rotors melted. The alu-core of rotor got very soft and "was stuck in combination of greater heat and force required" (my interpretation). Test rider weight was only 75kg / 165lbs.
After they used and destroyed all Ice-tec-Rotors they replaced them with some standard/classic rotors that behaved much better. But even with these brake the mineral oil "rised up all over the set up" (I can't translate this).
The overall result: 3 times total fail!
Practical-test only confirmed the result of Fade-test from lab. During the test ride, all Ice-Tec-Rotors melted. The alu-core of rotor got very soft and "was stuck in combination of greater heat and force required" (my interpretation). Test rider weight was only 75kg / 165lbs.
After they used and destroyed all Ice-tec-Rotors they replaced them with some standard/classic rotors that behaved much better. But even with these brake the mineral oil "rised up all over the set up" (I can't translate this).
The overall result: 3 times total fail!
does anyone know if those levers will work with saint 4 piston calipers? i've had two sets of the xt/saint servo wave levers and they both seem to do same thing...the fluid in the reservoir on the rear brake gets really dirty and then the lever goes to the grip. i bleed them and bleed them with the same result so i want to try these maybe...
My quick and free translation of answer of Mr. Harald Troost, SH PR man:
Shimano tested all disck brakes under extreme conditions, not only in laboratory but in real practise as well. >The 2nd sentence I dont't understand< We take the test results of the BIKE (magazine) to our knowledge, but we are fully confident wih our own highly developed test methods and new SH XTR disc brakes and Ice-Tec-Technology. Many of our sponsored pro-racers and many international journalists as well have tested these brakes during last months under all thinkable conditions and without doubt considered them positively. Thus we are confident that situation described in this test is not going to happen to end-users.
They're working on it. SRAM mtb wheels are in the works.
A little late to the party but the trail cranks-
The 26-38 is indeed standard 104 bolt pattern and it looks pretty good with a bashring installed. Funny enough, the spider covers look more goofier than a bashring does, they're thick and tall.
On my trailbike i've got an 11-36 cass and 26-38 ring setup and it rocks! Just barely low enough for steep climbs, but the overall range is sweet.
Weenies... the cranks are lighter than XO, XX, and Sixc carbon, only heavier than Next carbon/Ti. Mondraker will tell us how strong they are
Now someone please tell me if the Trail brakes are as powerful as R1's! I know they're heavier, but have more rotor clearance, external lever adjustment, and a killer lever blade.
The 26-38 is indeed standard 104 bolt pattern and it looks pretty good with a bashring installed. Funny enough, the spider covers look more goofier than a bashring does, they're thick and tall.
On my trailbike i've got an 11-36 cass and 26-38 ring setup and it rocks! Just barely low enough for steep climbs, but the overall range is sweet.
Weenies... the cranks are lighter than XO, XX, and Sixc carbon, only heavier than Next carbon/Ti. Mondraker will tell us how strong they are
Now someone please tell me if the Trail brakes are as powerful as R1's! I know they're heavier, but have more rotor clearance, external lever adjustment, and a killer lever blade.
The XTR feels like it is as powerful as the R1, The lever on the R1 is just so much nicer, better curve, nice wide blade.
I don't know if I would buy the XTR if I had rode the R1 first.
I don't know if I would buy the XTR if I had rode the R1 first.
Thanks for the info,
The new Trail brake lever is super wide and has the gripper dimples, did you try the Race brake? It has a narrower blade.
I haven't seen the Ice rotors in 6 bolt, only centerlock...anyone seen em in 6 bolt? I dunno if i would go for em anyway, it's like the r der, it may get bent or broken so i don't shell out for them. But then again, if these rotors truely do keep the brakes cool then they would be worth it.
The new Trail brake lever is super wide and has the gripper dimples, did you try the Race brake? It has a narrower blade.
I haven't seen the Ice rotors in 6 bolt, only centerlock...anyone seen em in 6 bolt? I dunno if i would go for em anyway, it's like the r der, it may get bent or broken so i don't shell out for them. But then again, if these rotors truely do keep the brakes cool then they would be worth it.
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Just curious, but you have the Race cranks if they're dual ring right? I thought the trail cranks were the triple...?A little late to the party but the trail cranks-
The 26-38 is indeed standard 104 bolt pattern and it looks pretty good with a bashring installed. Funny enough, the spider covers look more goofier than a bashring does, they're thick and tall.
On my trailbike i've got an 11-36 cass and 26-38 ring setup and it rocks! Just barely low enough for steep climbs, but the overall range is sweet.
Weenies... the cranks are lighter than XO, XX, and Sixc carbon, only heavier than Next carbon/Ti. Mondraker will tell us how strong they are
Now someone please tell me if the Trail brakes are as powerful as R1's! I know they're heavier, but have more rotor clearance, external lever adjustment, and a killer lever blade.
I ask cause I haven't done the research on the difference in spiders between the two. Is there a difference? If I wanted to have a dual crank, then convert to single ring later, could I?
The trail cranks are in 24/32/42 triple or 26/38 double that can run a bash, the race is a double that can't run a bash ring.
Thanks!
Trail brake, Not sure if the pic. gives a good view of the size difference though.
It's all about chainline, the size of the chainrings you want to run, and whether you want the option to run a bash ring. When running 2 rings the dual crank will have better chainline. In single ring the triple will have the best chainline (using the middle position). The bolt pattern on the double cranks limits how small a ring you can run in both positions, so this could be an issue for you.
The ideal crank for you is the Lightning with flipflop dual/triple 64/104 spider. Even in dual ring configuration it can take a bashring (though that ring may need to be dremmelled a little). Pricey though.
If they're too expensive my advice is to get a triple crank. More flexibility and you probably won't notice the chainline when using it as a double.
Yup, these guys are right, the only double that's 104 is the 26/38. Or get the triple, same arms. It's funny, for the longest time even Shimano USA didn't know. Now the docs are on their site if you look hard enough.
I actually like the chainline of the trail cranks, because the middle ring is in closer than on the race setup, so when i'm in the middle i can be up high in the cass and be able to backpedal, and it runs quiet. The granny does put the chain really close to the tire if you run a 2.5 though. Not that it matters, no gravity oriented rider would buy the race crank since there aren't any single rings available in that bolt circle hence no guide compatability.
4X, thanks for those pics. I'm still kind of suprised that you like the R1 levers more but there are really nice too. No doubt the Trail levers are really short which puts the lever close to the grip and the shifter has to go on the other side like the old days but as long as all of the controls are in the right place it doesn't really matter.
It seems Formula and Shimano are complete opposites in brake design...
The R1 has a long lever blade and high pressure hose, tiny MC and huge caliper pistons.
XTR has a little blade, large MC and average caliper pistons. That's why i'm so curious about the power. R1's have serious bite, i wonder which one is still holding strong at the end of a descent.
I actually like the chainline of the trail cranks, because the middle ring is in closer than on the race setup, so when i'm in the middle i can be up high in the cass and be able to backpedal, and it runs quiet. The granny does put the chain really close to the tire if you run a 2.5 though. Not that it matters, no gravity oriented rider would buy the race crank since there aren't any single rings available in that bolt circle hence no guide compatability.
4X, thanks for those pics. I'm still kind of suprised that you like the R1 levers more but there are really nice too. No doubt the Trail levers are really short which puts the lever close to the grip and the shifter has to go on the other side like the old days but as long as all of the controls are in the right place it doesn't really matter.
It seems Formula and Shimano are complete opposites in brake design...
The R1 has a long lever blade and high pressure hose, tiny MC and huge caliper pistons.
XTR has a little blade, large MC and average caliper pistons. That's why i'm so curious about the power. R1's have serious bite, i wonder which one is still holding strong at the end of a descent.
The real questioni s though is how many people are actually going to exert the type of forces onto those brakes that would cause them to melt? And doesn't this just mean that they aren't DH capable, which is kind of fair for XTR stuff?
Those cranks actually might make me randy. Despite the Ninjapunk swastika design, I'd have to say they are possibly the hottest cranks I have ever seen.
Those cranks actually might make me randy. Despite the Ninjapunk swastika design, I'd have to say they are possibly the hottest cranks I have ever seen.
Which is my problem with the XTR I chose poorly and got the I-spec version, so I am stuck with a brake lever that is to far away or a shifter that is to close.
Another advantage of the R1 is brake fluid, which doesn't mind the cold.
On the flip side, it doesn't take on water and need to be changed regularly. A while back I had a pair of Deore brakes that went something like 6 years without a bleed. Only did anything about it because I put them on a different bike and needed longer hoses, so I pretty much had to. That would never work with DOT fluid brakes.
Is it cause of the minimal amount of fluid or bad seal design? I seldom mess with my MX bike's brakes, and never bother to check my truck,...
Now I am not against the XTR I do have two pair of M970 and one M980 set and I would rather change mineral oil any day over dot4. I just have the R1 for my cold weather bike, and I have grown to really like them.
To be fair, I don't have R1s, but my The Ones have a little breather hole in the inside of the lever clamp, so they take on water pretty fast. And they're a PITA to bleed. Totally doable but hardly the easiest things ever.
Hose clamps make them much easier to bleed. Clothes pins will also work.
Does anyone know if the new XTR levers/MC's will work with the new style 4 piston Saint calipers? Are the MC diameters the same between the levers?