This time Butch makes a good point.
2011 National Champs to be held in North Carolina
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I think you're all missing the point, the only thing that will get more people racing is getting more people riding recreationally. face it, a lot of people who ride aren't interested in racing, but the more people that ride, the more people that will naturally gravitate towards that aspect of the sport, it's a numbers thing. one thing I'm really proud of in whistler is how we turned the youth programs that were available in town from a race focus to a fun focused thing and now we put a few hundred kids a summer through the clubs youth program instead of a couple dozen focused on race stuff. The thing is, the kids that excel naturally start heading towards racing, either dh or xc, but you have to get them started early and teach them the skills that will make them lifelong bikers, because that's the most important part of the equation in my opinion.
I know you and I have talked about the scholarship issue before, but I know it's a pretty narrow subset of parents that try to influence a kids sporting and leisure activities to get sport scholarships for college.
Most kids aren't ever going to get a collegiate athletic sponsorship. Palmer wouldn't have. Neither would have Peaty, Rockwell or any of the other shred-minded athletes that stepped up their athleticism to carve out a living.
We don't need collegiate or Olympic-track juniors to help grow the sport. If those kids have interest in the sport they will end up coming back when they invariably burn out and wash out on those sports once the get to college. We need to expose them to the sport and we need to give them something bigger than the top step of the podium to be stoked about. They need to want to be in our sport for it's intrinsic beauty and it's rich extrinsic rewards.
Bike riding is a life sport like golf or tennis- it's not a team sport that ceases to exist after college. When we expose juniors to the sport now they are far more likely to come back for life. The ones who like to shred will make sure they delay entering the adult world as long as possible by reducing their financial commitments from day one and living on the cheap, just like the pioneering american road racers of the '80s who shared cold bathroomless flats in no-name belgian towns and fought their way through the european amateur ranks to follow their passions.
We need our kids to want to drop out of the rat race before they even enter it. Being poor, broke and ugly is a legitimate way to go through life, especially if we work to build a culture around our sport that can support these kids with free clothes and a growing industry that they can transition into to gain some practical experience in business and eventually combine their efforts and limited resources to create economic stability for their collective of friends.
Matt Hoffman, not Michael Jordan
This isn't Europe and we will never see bike racing serve as a route to avoid the factory and a life of hard labor. We rely on upper-middle class demographic to pull our racers from right now It sucks, but that's where jr. talent comes from here, and we need to capitalize on it.
America's top XC racer, Todd Wells was a junior phenom on the factory Specialized team (the new Ned) and burned out in college at Ft Lewis. When he entered the real world he found a new love for bike racing and re-dedicated himself on his terms without the weight of sponsors and the industry on his shoulders. He left his well paying job at IBM to sleep at altitude in the back of his truck to get the fitness he needed to make a comeback in the sport.
For every pro cyclist that was a collegiate skiing burnout (Furtado, Giove, Tyler Hamilton, the Swenson brothers and about a million others) we've also produced talent from pure bike racers (Tomac, King, Carter, Buhl, LLanes, Price, Larsen, Thunder, etc...). Kids like Richie and the Mullaly's would all be better off racing BMX if their goals were financial security these days.
I have no doubt that all of those kids could be making $10,000 a year in prize money alone if they were racing 20" right now. Geoff could probably be short-listed for London given his strength, size skill and dedication
.
They race DH because it's the best way for them to combine their innate abilities and fun. The wunder-familiy from PA is here because they love the sport.
Pastrana(as a sort of general not all that applicable example) could have stayed in DH if we had made him love it more, if you catch my drift.
Yes, more opportunities to create wealth lay in other sports, but we don't want mercenaries to prop up our pastime. British kids should all be trying to become soccer or cricket stars by that logic, if you can follow that line of thought.
Rich kids don't need to focus on college. Adam Craig doesn't come from wealth, he comes from a hippie family that supported his dreams and a very small grassroots team in Maine that gave him key support before he won his first national championship and moved to the largest Jr. program in the country. The same thing goes for Willow Koerber. There are still 5 members of the Koerber family racing XC and winning their respective expert classes.
It's a lifestyle, not a profession, that's what these examples of successful American racers can teach us.
They have jobs because they can perform on the international stage, while still having the lives they want to live, not because they are in an Olympic discipline of cycling that is (very) theoretically more lucrative.
There are plenty of "rich" moto kids, highschool snowboard racers and skate park rats that have the necessary mental abilities to make great DH racers that are never going to in the Olympics or the X-Games.
They need to be groomed into bike racers, and they aren't going to turn to our sport for financial stability. We will convert them because they will love the sport for it's culture, it's people and the complicated, rewarding challenges it poses from a technical and tactical standpoint.
Focusing on college-track athletes propagates the same notion that one has to be in this sport to strike it rich or show an immediate innate skill level that makes it look like they might be the "next big thing".
If a kid wants to race he will make the sacrifices when it comes time. He'll live in a van and bathe out of a bucket if he really wants it, and he or she will be happy as hell.
He or she will live in a beat up house with 6 other shredders and hold beer parties in the basement for entry fees. He or she will go to Appalachian state because it is pretty cheap, in the middle of great riding and chock full of kind bud. He or She will rent a dilapidated house with a big backyard and build a slalom track and pumptrack on it and get his girlfriend stoked on shredding in little bites. He'll print some t-shirts to buy some Minon DHF's and design and stitch his own brand of DH gear made from sweet fabrics in his bedroom and sell it on the Ridemonkey.
When it comes down to crunch time when there really is something on the line and the depth of competition in this country necessitates buckling down because there is a chance to "make it" they'll put down the bong, transition to drinking protein shakes and start having bake sales to get the cash together to move to the alps for the summer, just like the Aussies and Brits that are dominating the sport.
"Professionalism" can't happen until we have some sort of Amateurism for these kids to transition from. I know parent's aren't going to like the idea of their kids potentially turning into dirtbag outlaws who live on the periphery of mainstream society but we can't build a sport from the top down.
The traditional parents that have supported their kids in the traditional way will have a bad element to tell their kids to keep away from. That's WAY better than having no dirtbag kids at all.
While i agree that small DH bikes are needed and would be great, i'm blown away at the BMX race scene here in Utah. I know it's a lot bigger here than in most places though. When my kid was born i figured i had 6-7 years to build him a custom full suspension 20"er so he could learn to shred as soon as possible, but now i want to keep him on a rigid BMX race bike for as long as he is willing to ride it. It makes amazing riders out of lil groms that will natrually adapt to MTN bikes and downhill bikes. BMX is an olympic sport afterall. I see 8yr old kids blow me out of the gate and scrub whip the dub on the first srtaight and think...This kid will be the next Mitch Ropeloto in 4 years.
Maybe i'm way off here.
I have seen 5 juniors come through the ranks with help from my shop and make it to worlds, then the pro ranks, but go nowhere. Then i see Ropelato grow up and realize the kids in my program never had a fraction of what Rope had because they were just riding downhill and their parents weren't BMX parents. Rope floundered around on a Mtn bike for a season learning to ride DH then like a lightswitch the next season he had what it took in downhill.
It used to be that MTB's were dorky and BMX was cool at the track but now, and maybe because of Rope, all the kids think my superlight hardtail is cool. most of the parents ride MTB and i could only imagine a large number of BMX kids will become hardcore mountainbikers, and gravity competitors.
There are a couple of young teens that are at or near the top on BMX and are dyng to ride DH. One day on the lift and they realize how boring BMX is and learning DH skillz is way more fun than doing sprints. The parents try to keep the kids in BMX as long as they can because they know it will help them in the long run. I'm seeing the kids show up to a DH race or 2 for fun as 12yr olds and i think they'll become full time mountainbikers in their latter teens.
Recreation is not as big as you think. Put it this way:
I have gone skiing well over 400 times in my life, I have never entered a ski race.
I have gone golfing over 100 times in my life, never entered a tournament.
I ride my XC bike at least 3 times a week, never been in an XC race.
I used to ride MX, never raced MX
I go fishing a lot, never entered a fishing tournament
I play guitar, never tried to be in band of play in front of crowd.
I lift weights at the gym, never been in a weight lifting competition.
I like talking about hookers, never solicited one....
America is a recreational country, we enjoy being active, but are only competitive if we think we can win.
There are ton's of junior racers from the northeast that no one knows what happened to, maybe they went pro and were not as good as they thought, maybe they went to college and could not make the time to race. Maybe they had better opportunities in other sports.
There are way too many reasons why the number of juniors have fallen, all of you are right, they are just pieces of the puzzle.
Voodoo is probably the most right, it has to start with the parents.
I have gone skiing well over 400 times in my life, I have never entered a ski race.
I have gone golfing over 100 times in my life, never entered a tournament.
I ride my XC bike at least 3 times a week, never been in an XC race.
I used to ride MX, never raced MX
I go fishing a lot, never entered a fishing tournament
I play guitar, never tried to be in band of play in front of crowd.
I lift weights at the gym, never been in a weight lifting competition.
I like talking about hookers, never solicited one....
America is a recreational country, we enjoy being active, but are only competitive if we think we can win.
There are ton's of junior racers from the northeast that no one knows what happened to, maybe they went pro and were not as good as they thought, maybe they went to college and could not make the time to race. Maybe they had better opportunities in other sports.
There are way too many reasons why the number of juniors have fallen, all of you are right, they are just pieces of the puzzle.
Voodoo is probably the most right, it has to start with the parents.
You neglect to point out how this kid/adult does nothing to get young groms out riding for leisure and fun. Maybe that's because as I see it, most of us Stateside gravity athletes give very little of their own time doing what is necessary to to expand and grow the sport and show others how fun it is.
I'm sure that anyone of us with a little cranium power could get involved with a local youth outreach program, school, etc. and act like a mentor like so many adults do with other respective sports. BTW, I'm to blame as much as anyone for the aforementioned.
But back to the subject at hand.
This ->
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/2011-South-Africa-World-Cup-course-build-2.html
Wow, this thread has certainly taken some interesting turns. In regards to the lack of growth at the Junior level, I have to believe that overall costs, geographical limitations, and injury risk play a significant role in the equation. I mean, hell, there are zillions of tennis courts and golf courses all over the US, so access to these sports is pretty easy. And as expensive as a decent set of golf clubs is, its nothing compared to a decent modern DH bike (and accoutrements). Plus, someone in Lincoln, Nebraska could be a superb tennis player, because tennis courts abound (even indoor ones I bet), whereas there most likely won't be many DH racers from Lincoln because of how far you would have to drive to actually race (or ride) DH. So in essence, a large portion of the country isn't anywhere near a real mountain range and therefore will probably not add much, if anything, to overall ridership number. And then there is the injury/health insurance thing...It's one thing to be living in your car and pursuing your dream of being on the PGA tour (where its highly unlikely you will break your collar bone or your C4 vertebra), but risking life and limb racing DH is a different deal altogether IMO. Not that these issues are insurmountable, but I think they play a big part in the problem. All that said, I am going save Mickey's posts for my daughter when she gets to be 14 and I am living vicariously through her racing career. She better be the next ACC if she wants to make her old man proud 
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First off, this thread has finally taken a step up to address some excellent issues. Thanks for the insights.
Second, I just moved down to Florida and I'm amazed at the size of the BMX community. Tons of kids riding and racing every week. Tons of young girls racing as well. Perhaps BMX should be promoted as the gateway sport to DH then we can steal some of that talent as it gets older but still has the itch to compete. If I had a BMX track in my town when I was growing up it would have been the first sport that I tried. I was already riding a BMX bike as are 10 million kids today who don't have a race track.
Third, other sports hit up the town, county, state and even federal government for grants to create and promote biking and bike parks. My local track in Punta Gorda just received $23,000. for renovations. Bike parks bring money into the town, it's a good investment. It needs to be pitched that way.
Second, I just moved down to Florida and I'm amazed at the size of the BMX community. Tons of kids riding and racing every week. Tons of young girls racing as well. Perhaps BMX should be promoted as the gateway sport to DH then we can steal some of that talent as it gets older but still has the itch to compete. If I had a BMX track in my town when I was growing up it would have been the first sport that I tried. I was already riding a BMX bike as are 10 million kids today who don't have a race track.
Third, other sports hit up the town, county, state and even federal government for grants to create and promote biking and bike parks. My local track in Punta Gorda just received $23,000. for renovations. Bike parks bring money into the town, it's a good investment. It needs to be pitched that way.
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Believe it or not Tomac Bikes is actually in Lincoln, NE
Resources are not as important as passion.
We all spend a lot of time theorizing and analyzing, but what commitments do we make to taking action ourselves?
That's what we all need to be talking about.
One PayPal account will have a bigger impact than 3000 of my messageboard posts.
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Inclag again...."
This sport is still in its infancy still in America and there are bike parks all over Europe and DH specific trail centers in places like England. DH racing in the US is still a scattered sport over a HUGE land mass. I always look at DH as a regional thing.
Pacific Northwest region
Norcal
SoCal
Colorado
Utah
Southeast
MidAtlantic
Northeast.
They're all very different and practically countries of their own in contrast to the rest of the world.
Split Colorado into it's own "country". Give it a regional UCI representation that the region itself names through it's own qualifier. The same with the Northeast, Southeast, PacNW, etc. I think each having it's own separate identity would breed a cream of the crop from each area.
Supercross has it's East and West Coast Nationals for 125/Lites and then an invite finale each year. Split the US into East versus West with the Gravity East and whatever you want in the West as the qualifiers (heck, even a West Coast and Rockies for 3 regions or 4) and have them all meet for a Four day race finals weekend with the best of 2 races (qualifiers having points as well) to determine US National Champion.
Just playing with ideas. But I do agree with the Whistler guide that creating gravity recreation opportunities for juniors is key. I don't know of any resorts that START with beginner and intermediate trail development, then add a FEW advanced trails.
That in itself is ironic considering the winning formula of every single ski resort is beginner/intermediate with SOME advanced trails.
Pacific Northwest region
Norcal
SoCal
Colorado
Utah
Southeast
MidAtlantic
Northeast.
They're all very different and practically countries of their own in contrast to the rest of the world.
Split Colorado into it's own "country". Give it a regional UCI representation that the region itself names through it's own qualifier. The same with the Northeast, Southeast, PacNW, etc. I think each having it's own separate identity would breed a cream of the crop from each area.
Supercross has it's East and West Coast Nationals for 125/Lites and then an invite finale each year. Split the US into East versus West with the Gravity East and whatever you want in the West as the qualifiers (heck, even a West Coast and Rockies for 3 regions or 4) and have them all meet for a Four day race finals weekend with the best of 2 races (qualifiers having points as well) to determine US National Champion.
Just playing with ideas. But I do agree with the Whistler guide that creating gravity recreation opportunities for juniors is key. I don't know of any resorts that START with beginner and intermediate trail development, then add a FEW advanced trails.
That in itself is ironic considering the winning formula of every single ski resort is beginner/intermediate with SOME advanced trails.
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Bingo. I didn't realize how much this was a problem until I got my g/f into downhill this summer at northstar. There's basically...2 blue trails, and then fireroads, and the rest single or double blacks. It's gotta be hard for a beginner to really get into things without getting bored on the 2-3 intermediate trails. The resort needs double that many intro trails if they really wanna get new people into the sport. I mean, if they build a few beginner trails for some guys to take their g/f's on, thats a lot more lift tickets they can sell probably. Maybe not HUGE, but probably enough to make it worthwhile. Do east coast resorts have more beginner trails? I think mammoth only has 2-3 as well. I can't remember exactly.
Butch has another good point that brings us back to the original topic. How big is the U.S. compared to Europe?
I looked some info up for comparison and France is 211,000 square miles and the state of Texas is 269,000 sq miles. Cal. is 169,000. Austria is 32,000 square miles and Maine is just about the same.
A National Championship race is never going to be successful in attendance from the entire country, regional races and regional champions is probably our best bet. The east has the GES, Colorado has the MSC. These types of series need to have more recognition by USAC without them sucking money from the venues to get the top rating. I am not completely anti-USAC, but if they really want Gravity to grow to it's potential, they need to compromise.
I looked some info up for comparison and France is 211,000 square miles and the state of Texas is 269,000 sq miles. Cal. is 169,000. Austria is 32,000 square miles and Maine is just about the same.
A National Championship race is never going to be successful in attendance from the entire country, regional races and regional champions is probably our best bet. The east has the GES, Colorado has the MSC. These types of series need to have more recognition by USAC without them sucking money from the venues to get the top rating. I am not completely anti-USAC, but if they really want Gravity to grow to it's potential, they need to compromise.
Every trail but one at Highland Mt is ridable by someone on a '97 GT Avalanche with toeclips. Parks are where the sport is heading, but the only reason Highland has any of those amenities is because it's owned by a millionaire who loves the sport.
Resort owners are very, very afraid of spending money, especially since the small ones have limited cash reserves to rely on to get them through the winters let alone cash to buffer the ~$2000 a day it takes them to run a lift and pay 3 lifties during the summer. Forget about them investing money into a trail network and trail work. That's tantamount to suicide. That's real money. Don't demand charity. They've got to stay in business.
I know a lot of you guys have to drive pretty far to get to a chairlift. Those of us who are surrounded by small ski areas know just how close to bankruptcy almost every family owned mountain is. If we want to ride at these places we need to build the tracks for them. We need to do it for free, and we need to hold managements hand to help them limit their risk.
If you don't have 12 ski mountains within 2 hours of your house, go build some tracks in your local hills. In the time that most of us spend in RideMonkey every year we could each build 2 miles of IMBA spec trail...
The only way we are going to get the resources we need to get young people into the sport is to take it into our own hands to build the appropriate trails, be it volunteer work at the resorts or pirate trails in the town forest. and give the kids our hand me down bikes.
I've got 4 old frames in the shop that need a few parts to be raceable. We've got 7 hydracoil boxxers under one of the workbenches right now in the process of getting rebuilt. There are piles of old Hayes brakes, clapped wheelsets that just need rims, handlebars that are the wrong color, pedals that are "too thick" and a hectare of 9 speed Deore shifters. Most of you have lots of other stuff laying around too, and lots of us look at our old crap and think of it as trash. You have jobs. Give that **** to kids.
It's not hard to find a kid who wants to ride. They are everywhere.
As a sport we need to stop asking people to do things for us, and start doing it ourselves.
There are people who put everything they have into making Jr. racing work. The Allison family at Plattekill, the Syron family in MA, Herndon, The Voreis family, the Gravity Project crew, Yeti and I'm sure dozens of other people that I don't know of put unreasonable hours and unsustainable resources into getting a handfull of kids all around the country out to the events. The Syrons and their United Freeride team managed to build a team of 6 kids in two seasons around DS racing... and then people stopped supporting the DS races at Highland, and now they're down to two kids. It's not too late for someone to throw up some gates in their loamy back woods and keep those kids in the sport.
Stepping stones.
Want to get more kids STOKED on gravity racing? Go buy some surveyors flags at the hardware store and hold a grass slalom race in your back yard.
Start with yourself and your neighborhood. Get a bike gang going. Before you know it kids are going to be racing in backyards all over town on their micro mini cruisers and hardrock comps. That is how sh%t happens.
These positive actions aren't just going to bring kids into the sport. They are going to turn on anyone who owns a bicycle. We need as many people as we can get putting money into gravity racing. Gravity includes gated racing too.
We all know that 4x sucks, but don't dismiss gated racing just because of that. A good DS racer will be a good 4x racer and a good DH racer.
A few dozen families around the country and two handfuls of trail builders can't prop up a sport or make it accessible. Small, distributed actions of like-minded individuals are what make significant change happen.
I can't say it enough time- this sport belongs to the riders. We all need to take more ownership of it. The only result will be more fun.
Beech is a long time from now. We can make it the best gravity national championship this country has ever seen.
Resort owners are very, very afraid of spending money, especially since the small ones have limited cash reserves to rely on to get them through the winters let alone cash to buffer the ~$2000 a day it takes them to run a lift and pay 3 lifties during the summer. Forget about them investing money into a trail network and trail work. That's tantamount to suicide. That's real money. Don't demand charity. They've got to stay in business.
I know a lot of you guys have to drive pretty far to get to a chairlift. Those of us who are surrounded by small ski areas know just how close to bankruptcy almost every family owned mountain is. If we want to ride at these places we need to build the tracks for them. We need to do it for free, and we need to hold managements hand to help them limit their risk.
If you don't have 12 ski mountains within 2 hours of your house, go build some tracks in your local hills. In the time that most of us spend in RideMonkey every year we could each build 2 miles of IMBA spec trail...
The only way we are going to get the resources we need to get young people into the sport is to take it into our own hands to build the appropriate trails, be it volunteer work at the resorts or pirate trails in the town forest. and give the kids our hand me down bikes.
I've got 4 old frames in the shop that need a few parts to be raceable. We've got 7 hydracoil boxxers under one of the workbenches right now in the process of getting rebuilt. There are piles of old Hayes brakes, clapped wheelsets that just need rims, handlebars that are the wrong color, pedals that are "too thick" and a hectare of 9 speed Deore shifters. Most of you have lots of other stuff laying around too, and lots of us look at our old crap and think of it as trash. You have jobs. Give that **** to kids.
It's not hard to find a kid who wants to ride. They are everywhere.
As a sport we need to stop asking people to do things for us, and start doing it ourselves.
There are people who put everything they have into making Jr. racing work. The Allison family at Plattekill, the Syron family in MA, Herndon, The Voreis family, the Gravity Project crew, Yeti and I'm sure dozens of other people that I don't know of put unreasonable hours and unsustainable resources into getting a handfull of kids all around the country out to the events. The Syrons and their United Freeride team managed to build a team of 6 kids in two seasons around DS racing... and then people stopped supporting the DS races at Highland, and now they're down to two kids. It's not too late for someone to throw up some gates in their loamy back woods and keep those kids in the sport.
Stepping stones.
Want to get more kids STOKED on gravity racing? Go buy some surveyors flags at the hardware store and hold a grass slalom race in your back yard.
Start with yourself and your neighborhood. Get a bike gang going. Before you know it kids are going to be racing in backyards all over town on their micro mini cruisers and hardrock comps. That is how sh%t happens.
These positive actions aren't just going to bring kids into the sport. They are going to turn on anyone who owns a bicycle. We need as many people as we can get putting money into gravity racing. Gravity includes gated racing too.
We all know that 4x sucks, but don't dismiss gated racing just because of that. A good DS racer will be a good 4x racer and a good DH racer.
A few dozen families around the country and two handfuls of trail builders can't prop up a sport or make it accessible. Small, distributed actions of like-minded individuals are what make significant change happen.
I can't say it enough time- this sport belongs to the riders. We all need to take more ownership of it. The only result will be more fun.
Beech is a long time from now. We can make it the best gravity national championship this country has ever seen.
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I forget, does having 2011 Nationals in North Carolina still suck?
NO, but having it in September does.
I blame the Internet, you, butch and the damn stupid bunny with the ****ing pancake on it's head.
Stupid rabbit, triks are for kidz.
I can't believe all the East vs. West junk in here. How do you guys on the West coast think we have felt for all these years? I would have loved to be able to go and race the NORBA stuff years ago, but it was mostly in the West. Why? That's where the manufacturers are. It's much easier/cost effective to have all the races there since companies and sponsors are all out there. A lot of the reason that most of the American pros are out West is the same reason. If the mountain bike came from the East, the pros would be here.
Someone said something about Gary Fisher thought that the SE was going to be the next great place for mt. biking, and it is. I was one of the trailbuilders at one the most poular trails in the country and when we got our last trail finished, we took Gary on a guided ride for the opening. Everyone else was looking for autographs and pics and crap. I walked up to him and he asked what I wanted. I just said that when the ride was done, I wanted his honest opinion of the trail. Gary said it was one of the best that he had ridden in a while. We in the SE are digging and building trails like crazy. And they are all good, sustainable trails.
That aside...
Beech is going to be a great venue for the championships. There were three races there last year and two were built BETWEEN the races. I believe there was about 6 weeks in between races. The lift runs fast (not like Sugar, where you may die of old age), the dirt is black-lots of traction, the hill is steep, the roots are slick, the trees are hard, the rocks are granite and big. If the weather does not cooperate and it is cold or raining, you cannot see the chair in front of you on the lift, then you need to ride through the fog. Goggles don't work-at all.
Last Septembers race, it rained, all morning, from a hurricane. The course was so muddy that I think it added at least 30 seconds and 5 pounds to the fast times in the dry. When we got to the finish, we were all drained. the comments went from 'How did you do?' to 'How many times did you go down?'
Still, no one was complaining. Except maybe Chuck after he hit a fan at the road crossing.
I think that a few of the guys have an old VHS vid I put together of the races from 2000/2001. I'm not tech savy enough to transfer it to the net, but if some of you guys can, I think it will really showcase some of the great parts of the old courses.
I've been doing races at Beech for about 10 years now, and it is my favorite place to race. I started up there on a hardtail and bought a full DH because of this mountain.
If Herndon and Beytagh and the rest of the SE crew build a Nat'l Champs specific course, it will be sick and a challenge.
I got into racing on a whim at a DS race in Ellijay GA. I thought I would be fast and got my ass handed to me. I've been racing ever since. I love it. I suck and I have been stuck in sport since I started. I have had good races and bad races. I have been on a legitimate podium a few times, but I have never won a race outright.
By God I am going to win a race, and the Nat'l champs would be the best place to do it. I am going to start training and getting in shape for this race as of last Saturday. I am completely focused on this race.
If you aren't - don't show up.
Someone said something about Gary Fisher thought that the SE was going to be the next great place for mt. biking, and it is. I was one of the trailbuilders at one the most poular trails in the country and when we got our last trail finished, we took Gary on a guided ride for the opening. Everyone else was looking for autographs and pics and crap. I walked up to him and he asked what I wanted. I just said that when the ride was done, I wanted his honest opinion of the trail. Gary said it was one of the best that he had ridden in a while. We in the SE are digging and building trails like crazy. And they are all good, sustainable trails.
That aside...
Beech is going to be a great venue for the championships. There were three races there last year and two were built BETWEEN the races. I believe there was about 6 weeks in between races. The lift runs fast (not like Sugar, where you may die of old age), the dirt is black-lots of traction, the hill is steep, the roots are slick, the trees are hard, the rocks are granite and big. If the weather does not cooperate and it is cold or raining, you cannot see the chair in front of you on the lift, then you need to ride through the fog. Goggles don't work-at all.
Last Septembers race, it rained, all morning, from a hurricane. The course was so muddy that I think it added at least 30 seconds and 5 pounds to the fast times in the dry. When we got to the finish, we were all drained. the comments went from 'How did you do?' to 'How many times did you go down?'
Still, no one was complaining. Except maybe Chuck after he hit a fan at the road crossing.
I think that a few of the guys have an old VHS vid I put together of the races from 2000/2001. I'm not tech savy enough to transfer it to the net, but if some of you guys can, I think it will really showcase some of the great parts of the old courses.
I've been doing races at Beech for about 10 years now, and it is my favorite place to race. I started up there on a hardtail and bought a full DH because of this mountain.
If Herndon and Beytagh and the rest of the SE crew build a Nat'l Champs specific course, it will be sick and a challenge.
I got into racing on a whim at a DS race in Ellijay GA. I thought I would be fast and got my ass handed to me. I've been racing ever since. I love it. I suck and I have been stuck in sport since I started. I have had good races and bad races. I have been on a legitimate podium a few times, but I have never won a race outright.
By God I am going to win a race, and the Nat'l champs would be the best place to do it. I am going to start training and getting in shape for this race as of last Saturday. I am completely focused on this race.
If you aren't - don't show up.
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Well said Jet
Another way to get kids hooked? Start a High School mtb league. There is now the NORCAL and CO mtb "league". Check it:
http://www.norcalmtb.org/
http://www.coloradomtb.org/
Denver Post Story
http://www.norcalmtb.org/
http://www.coloradomtb.org/
Denver Post Story
At least for Colorado, this is for XC only. Can't have those kids doing that dangerous DH stuff!
DH (or motocross) is way too expensive for a kid. That's why I raced XC until I was 20. I could just barely afford to keep a competitive hardtail running and get to the races. Remember it's not just the extra cost of a DH bike over XC, you also have to pay for lift tickets and spend 2 days at a race instead of 1. Sure there will always be some parents who pay for their kid's hobby but that's what separates high school ball sports from DH, motocross, kart or car racing, ect.
Game on Jet...I just got my order of "horse racing supplies"
and Kentucky Supreme just sent me a substantial care package for X-mas. Can't wait
and Kentucky Supreme just sent me a substantial care package for X-mas. Can't wait
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well said. I started getting into DH and racing when i was a freshman in high school, it was my life (hell i could have told you the exact times of the top 10 at all the WC and national races, every detail about their bikes, etc.) and worked my ass off to buy the low-end Kona Stinky. growing up in central illinois there was only a small part of a XC trail that went downhill and had a few rocks to us as a DH trail, thats the only place i rode for 5 years except for one trip to Wisconsin for a "real" DH race, because it cost too much for me to travel 16+ hours to ride. I know i was screwed from the beginning living in the midwest but even if i lived in the west or east traveling cost's, timing, and fee's for races were just too outrageous for someone in high school or even college to attend, not to mention the cost of bikes, gear, and replacement parts. Im going to school out west now and while there are mountains here to ride, races are too few and way too far between for me to go to.
back on topic, this sounds like a sick place to ride and race and hopefully i can make it down that way sometime but i feel that a National Championship race should be held somewhere a bit bigger and more well known. but i hope it turns out great none the less.
I think this thread needs to be reviewed in preperation for Nationals... http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237235
Anybody have suggestions for mud tires for that area?
I live in the desert.They'd be special order,whatever they are.
I live in the desert.They'd be special order,whatever they are.
In my experience racing courses like Beech, there are different degrees of "mud". If it has been non-stop deluge conditions, something like a Maxxis Wet Scream (or any mud spike tire) is the best option. As with any spike tire, it does some funky things on big rock faces, but IMO it makes up for it everywhere else. If its not actively raining, but has rained recently, my guess would be something like a Maxxis Swampthing or Conti Rain King (or whatever its called nowdays). In fact, I'm hoping to get my hands on some Rain Kings, as my riding bud had the Conti Der Kaiser and they performed awesome for him in most conditions.
So assuming you don't want to buy 2 sets of expensive tires, I would go with a Swampthing or Rain King and just pray it doesn't pour.
So assuming you don't want to buy 2 sets of expensive tires, I would go with a Swampthing or Rain King and just pray it doesn't pour.
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cut down, soft duro 2.5 mud spikes
Schwalbe Dirty Dan. Perfect tire for beech
What's the deal on cutting down wetscreams?Do you clip the centers and leave the sides?if you cut them down,are they a better transitional tire,then?The experience Ive had in WV in the pouring rain is that you can almost run a minion or so if it's wet enough to clear the mud out quickly.
I'm kinda leery to go non maxxis as every time I have ,I seem to have some issue with them.
I'm kinda leery to go non maxxis as every time I have ,I seem to have some issue with them.
The idea with cut spikes is to cut down the center knobs, so it rolls better, but it still has cornerning grip. If by some miracle you can get your hands on some Hill Billys (Spesh makes'em??), they are basically like cut Wet Screams. I will say that track conditions at venues around Beech can change drastically in an hour or so. I ran full spikes at Hawksnest (about 10 or so miles away) last year after it poured, and they were stellar during practice. Stopped raining, course firmed up, and then I felt like the spikes where really rolling slow during my race run...Well, that and I have the fitness of a 3 toed sloth.
I would recommend a cut wetscream over a swampthing any day, but that's based on my experience in the UK, I've not ridden Beech or anything in that area. There's a night and day difference on flat corners and off cambers.
Have yet to try a Hillbilly, but it's my to do list.
Have yet to try a Hillbilly, but it's my to do list.
Hillbillys are pretty much the best tires on the face of the earth if you are anything but pure rocks.
The year Barel won Worlds, he ran the same set of 2.35 Tioga Muds every single race, rain or shine.
Wow, exciting to see this thing come to the South East! It's a trip to hear how spoiled some folks are! And so eager to show Ignorance!
The Southeast has had many riders, for close to a couple decades who traveled to the west coast many, many times to compete at National events! As well as several Championships held in Vermont. which was still 20hrs. for me. During the late 90's the Southeast had many Jr. and Am. podiums at Nationals all over the country. With several Expert and Jr. National champions. Also multiple Collegiate Gravity Champions. There were a hand full of Pro racers to come from the S.E. as well who held Semi Pro Championships, and a couple of Pro Championships and more Jr. titles in the past decade. Currently the SE has defending Jr. Champs on the Specialized Grom team as well as a couple of up and coming Pro contenders. We have had a handful of relevant riders on the National Circuit for years!
We traveled the farthest and have the least support from sponsorship than probably anywhere in the country. We raced on foreign West Coast soil that was difficult to ride, when we never rode blown out powder and braking bumps at our tracks back east til we visited the West Coast to race.
We took west coast crap talking and dished it back! Which in my eyes is all racing and I love being an underdog, so don't think I'm b1tching about any efforts I made to race anywhere!
The Southeast Race scene has had some very competitive series over the past 15yrs. that I have been involved and prior to that as well. The terrain here will surprise alot of people and Beech has a legit hill!
My point is this: The SE has participated in USAC racing for as long as it's been around! We have also had relevant courses in the past several years. We have participated in National events far and wide as riders and to our fellow racers been respectful when racing in their beautiful backyards! We will have many more racers and champions to come from the SE in the future if we are supported by the industry, the racing organization and our fellow American racers! Without this support alot of the "smarter" people from this area have gotten out of mountain biking because it's not a logical hobby or passion, due to the efforts and travel cost associated with the sport! If we can get more support in this area to have more lift access for trails, then it can be a great help to the growth of the sport in our area.
Having the event here can do so much in shredding through such ignorance that "if the race is in the SE it will suck?" The SE doesn't suck! It Rocks! I have traveled the entire country riding and taking it all in, and it is all great and different! But, seriously the terrain here deserves to be in the ball park with some of the larger recognized spots around the country.
So please, don't listen to these jerks jumping on here and bitching that the SE sucks when they have never been here! They are just mad that it can't be at their local track every year at some epic location!
And if you haven't been here then wow, get out and do some traveling! I would have never went to about 40 of the 47 states that I have been to without traveling to bike races throughout my life.
Maybe I'm just strange and the thing that I enjoy about Mountain Biking is all the diversity it has to offer. I would hate to know my riding was limited to one style of terrain or another, that is just boring.
The South is Loud and Proud! We will have a fun time for those who come to race here!
The Southeast has had many riders, for close to a couple decades who traveled to the west coast many, many times to compete at National events! As well as several Championships held in Vermont. which was still 20hrs. for me. During the late 90's the Southeast had many Jr. and Am. podiums at Nationals all over the country. With several Expert and Jr. National champions. Also multiple Collegiate Gravity Champions. There were a hand full of Pro racers to come from the S.E. as well who held Semi Pro Championships, and a couple of Pro Championships and more Jr. titles in the past decade. Currently the SE has defending Jr. Champs on the Specialized Grom team as well as a couple of up and coming Pro contenders. We have had a handful of relevant riders on the National Circuit for years!
We traveled the farthest and have the least support from sponsorship than probably anywhere in the country. We raced on foreign West Coast soil that was difficult to ride, when we never rode blown out powder and braking bumps at our tracks back east til we visited the West Coast to race.
We took west coast crap talking and dished it back! Which in my eyes is all racing and I love being an underdog, so don't think I'm b1tching about any efforts I made to race anywhere!
The Southeast Race scene has had some very competitive series over the past 15yrs. that I have been involved and prior to that as well. The terrain here will surprise alot of people and Beech has a legit hill!
My point is this: The SE has participated in USAC racing for as long as it's been around! We have also had relevant courses in the past several years. We have participated in National events far and wide as riders and to our fellow racers been respectful when racing in their beautiful backyards! We will have many more racers and champions to come from the SE in the future if we are supported by the industry, the racing organization and our fellow American racers! Without this support alot of the "smarter" people from this area have gotten out of mountain biking because it's not a logical hobby or passion, due to the efforts and travel cost associated with the sport! If we can get more support in this area to have more lift access for trails, then it can be a great help to the growth of the sport in our area.
Having the event here can do so much in shredding through such ignorance that "if the race is in the SE it will suck?" The SE doesn't suck! It Rocks! I have traveled the entire country riding and taking it all in, and it is all great and different! But, seriously the terrain here deserves to be in the ball park with some of the larger recognized spots around the country.
So please, don't listen to these jerks jumping on here and bitching that the SE sucks when they have never been here! They are just mad that it can't be at their local track every year at some epic location!
And if you haven't been here then wow, get out and do some traveling! I would have never went to about 40 of the 47 states that I have been to without traveling to bike races throughout my life.
Maybe I'm just strange and the thing that I enjoy about Mountain Biking is all the diversity it has to offer. I would hate to know my riding was limited to one style of terrain or another, that is just boring.
The South is Loud and Proud! We will have a fun time for those who come to race here!
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Would just like to say congrats to all those riders from the SE who get to experience the nats close to home. It's about time this event made it to this region. I know y'all will do the best you can to make the event a success and (most of all) FUN.
While there were some issues along the way, we really enjoyed hosting the event at the SolVista Bike Park the past two years. We felt proud to host the best riders in the country and put our best foot forward to give ALL the riders the best we could.
Not sure who is organizing, building, etc down there for this race, but please feel free to contact me with any questions on anything nationals related, be it tracks, paddock, retail, politics, etc. We'd be happy to share what we learned.
Two questions:
Chuck, after years of hating on USAC are you actually gonna buy a USAC license to race this thing?
and
Butch, do you plan on staging some sort of sit-in demonstration to protest the possible building of any big jumps?
mt
While there were some issues along the way, we really enjoyed hosting the event at the SolVista Bike Park the past two years. We felt proud to host the best riders in the country and put our best foot forward to give ALL the riders the best we could.
Not sure who is organizing, building, etc down there for this race, but please feel free to contact me with any questions on anything nationals related, be it tracks, paddock, retail, politics, etc. We'd be happy to share what we learned.
Two questions:
Chuck, after years of hating on USAC are you actually gonna buy a USAC license to race this thing?
and
Butch, do you plan on staging some sort of sit-in demonstration to protest the possible building of any big jumps?
mt