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Dessous by Vorsprung Suspension

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by Mo(n)arch, Feb 20, 2015.

  1. Mo(n)arch

    Mo(n)arch Turbo Monkey

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  2. troy

    troy Monkey

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    This is superb!
     
  3. ChrisRobin

    ChrisRobin Turbo Monkey

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    Oh snap! Gotta get one at 150cdn. For the 'muricans, it's like 58 bucks.
     
  4. Sandwich

    Sandwich Pig my fish!
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    that's great! Should make an awesome improvement on the rather mediocre float series.
     
  5. dump

    dump Turbo Monkey

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    I approve of the design/typography on these. Fresh!
     
  6. jackalope

    jackalope Mental acuity - 1%

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    Nice...
     
  7. slyfink

    slyfink Turbo Monkey

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    I don't understand how it works. I thought a larger volume can would lead to a more wallowy ride, which is why we have volume reducers. But this is telling me that a higher volume will have better mid-stroke support. There's obviously something I'm missing.
     
  8. Sandwich

    Sandwich Pig my fish!
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    I think it's the larger negative spring (like the debonair) that lowers the initial spring rate and allows you to tune for better midstroke performance, rather than ignoring the initial spring rate and focusing on bottom out.
     
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  9. djjohnr

    djjohnr Turbo Monkey

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    From the PB comments:

    VorsprungSuspension (7 hours ago)
    It's all to do with the ratios and volumes of positive and negative chambers, and where they equalise. By manipulating those values, we can change the rate at which the negative spring pressure drops early in the travel, which is what controls the early stroke and is really the defining point of these sleeves. It doesn't affect the damping - that is completely separate.
     
  10. Nick

    Nick My name is Nick

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    well. $120, which is still not bad if it can deliver on all those claims.
    That modified spring rate looks really promising for an air shock. I think I'll test dummy one of these.
     
  11. dan-o

    dan-o Turbo Monkey

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    Sounds like a cheap way to make your fox feel like a debonair
     
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  12. CBJ

    CBJ Turbo Monkey

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    I would love to hear more about what this will actually do:

    - More mid-stroke support
    - No more wallowy midstroke

    One thing I have on my Float is I have to run higher pressure to avoid it blowing through travel when pedaling through rocky section and just stay more stable low speed technical situations. Not sure if that is what they promise with the above statements.

    It kind sounds like that is what they are trying to achieve (from answer in the Pink Bike Pres Release:

    "Because of the more linear overall nature of this spring (start to end) you have more of a usable range of sag before the thing gets harsh or excessively wallowy"
     
    #12 -   Feb 20, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2015
  13. Udi

    Udi RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”

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    I've got a couple on the way for review in two different types of frames (a VPP and a dw-link), will post up my thoughts on here once I've had my way with them. Knowing Steve, they'll do exactly what they claim, but riding coil exclusively in all my bikes at the moment I'll have pretty high standards as well.

    CBJ - from the graphs, these sleeves should provide the float with two key things over stock:
    1. Lower spring rate in the first ~10% of travel, eliminating most air spring harshness
    2. Slightly higher spring rate in middle of stroke and end of stroke, thus more support where needed

    I think 1. is the biggest issue on air shocks, and a big reason why there is a need to run lower than ideal pressure (and support as a result) to get reasonable sensitivity and bump absorption. While these cans will give you a little more midstroke support anyway, a bigger benefit should be that you can run the amount of pressure for the level of midstroke support you desire without really sacrificing sensitivity and bump absorption in the earlier stroke.

    I can't speak for your scenario personally, but I know with air shocks I always end up running them a bit softer than ideal (and thus with a wallowy midstroke) to compensate for the initial harshness that gets worse if I set it up for the support I want. I expect these will eliminate or greatly reduce that compromise. I'll comment on how well they did once I get my hands on them.
     
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  14. Vrock

    Vrock Linkage Design Blog

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    Here in Europe it's going to be too expensive, we can buy a new Monarch Debonair and get pretty much the same results, but it's going to work really well for a lot of people.
     
  15. CBJ

    CBJ Turbo Monkey

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    It does seems like it would be what I am looking for. Unfortunately the GT Sensor runs a 7.25"x1.75" which I do not see as an option on their chart.
     
  16. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    Is this one any different that the protos floating around that fox has been planning on making?
    Good timing since they're lagging.

    edit: just went back and looked, this one looks like a more extreme version neg/pos ratio-wise. Eh?

    Regardless though......"corset" :rofl:
     
    #16 -   Feb 20, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2015
  17. Carraig042

    Carraig042 me 1st

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    I am interested in hearing what you have to say on this. I had been considering the DB inline for my Devinci Troy, but this may be a great alternative.

    -Brett
     
  18. StiHacka

    StiHacka Compensating for something

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    This looks very good, perhaps it is worth keeping and upgrading an old RP23 on my wife's bike now. Does the neg chamber have any direct effect on the mid-stroke or is it all a function of being able to run higher pressures without being concerned about the initial stroke?

    PS: Apologies to Udi for unknowingly slapping him with a dislike. Must be my princess fingers in this frozen hell. :help:
     
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  19. Beef Supreme

    Beef Supreme Turbo Monkey

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    Every time someone tries to make Fox products not suck, I hope they get filthy rich.
     
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  20. xy9ine

    xy9ine Turbo Monkey

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    just ordered one. will see how it goes. if nothing else, i'm contributing to steve's beer fund.
     
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  21. canadmos

    canadmos Cake Tease

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    Not being a suspension guru, will this negatively effect any type of suspension?

    The Float on my Banshee Spitfire (version 2) is a tough cookie to setup. Sometimes it feels good, other times it feels like I'm riding with a flat tire. I feel like I have to either run it with too much air pressure so the bike sits correctly or if I want it to actually work, use too little pressure, which then makes it sag like my DH bike. :crazy:

    I guess for the price I should just get one and try it now.
     
  22. Sandwich

    Sandwich Pig my fish!
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    maybe if you have a steeply progressive shock rate in the first third, like some of DW's designs? they are deeply progressive to get over the initial stiction, then linearize to take advantage of an air shock's natural ramp.

    I feel like this is much more advantageous for bikes that are a little more regular.
     
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  23. tomasis7

    tomasis7 stroganoff

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    Vorsprung suspension, nice initiative!

    Indeed the curve is quite more linear especially initially compared to fox.
     
  24. saruti

    saruti Turbo Monkey

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    looks exactly like what I need for my SB66c.
    the bigger negative air chamber is the only thing made me want to buy a debonair Monarch....
    so maybe I wont be using a RC4 on it after all.....
     
  25. ChrisRobin

    ChrisRobin Turbo Monkey

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    Just put my order in. I'm hoping it helps my setup and gets one more season of riding out of the trail bike. I'm liking the idea of a higher negative pressure and more mid stroke support. The only issue is the increase in main air pressure... we'll see what happens.
     
  26. jstuhlman

    jstuhlman We noticed.

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  27. amishmatt

    amishmatt Turbo Monkey

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    candamos,

    I have a Spitfire V2 that came with a Fox Float Crappy Terrible Disappointment (with Kashmir!). It took me three or four rides to figure out it is in fact the giant steaming pile of shit that everyone says it is. I replaced it with a a Monarch Debonair which is better in every possible way - makes the Float seem like a bad joke, and I can't figure out why manufactures continue to spec this shit when a better shock makes their frame ride so much better. If the Corset sleeve is anything like, or better than a Monarch, it would probably be the best money you can spend on your bike.
     
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  28. SuboptimusPrime

    SuboptimusPrime Turbo Monkey

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    ^^^ Same bike same shock same impressions of the CTD. If I didn't have a CCDB I'd have ordered one of these things. Hope Steve sells a boatload of them.
     
  29. canadmos

    canadmos Cake Tease

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    Thanks for the input. It always felt like I was chasing what felt "right". One day it was great and usable, the next it would be like a pogo or something. Oh well. I will probably get this and try it out.

    I'm guessing Fox has a better buy factor for some reason. Colours and looks do wonders..
     
  30. saruti

    saruti Turbo Monkey

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    well, it looks like FOX new sleeve and this Corset air sleeve do the same wonder.
    the big Q is, if FOX will sell only the sleeve for as aftermarket part for upgrade to their clients and what will be the price...
     
  31. JustMtnB44

    JustMtnB44 Monkey

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    I've always felt the same way about the Float RP23 on my Spitfire V2 as well. Getting this air can is a lot cheaper than a new shock, so I think I'm going to try it as well.
     
  32. Udi

    Udi RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”

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    Just received a few for testing, will write something up when I get a chance.
     
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  33. xy9ine

    xy9ine Turbo Monkey

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    got mine installed. haven't ridden it yet, but bouncing on the thing, it's significantly more supple off the top. coil-esque, even. looking forward to giving it a go.
     
  34. canadmos

    canadmos Cake Tease

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    What bikes are you guys using it on?
     
  35. ChrisRobin

    ChrisRobin Turbo Monkey

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    By the time I ordered mine I was told it would take at a week because of the unforeseen high demand. Mine will be going on a clapped out Scott Ransom that currently has a DHX Air tuned by Avalanche.
     
  36. nowlan

    nowlan Monkey

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    Very curious how this will affect VPP. I am currently in the market for a suspension upgrade from my RP23 and was considering the CCDB Inline, I just noticed this a few days ago. The fact its a quarter of the price is what has my eyes glued for a real world review.
     
  37. Sandwich

    Sandwich Pig my fish!
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    That could be a pretty interesting shock, some kind of frankenshock with the corset air can and a external low speed via avalanche...
     
  38. dan-o

    dan-o Turbo Monkey

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    Unrideable.
     
  39. 4130biker

    4130biker PM me about Tantrum Cycles!

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    Also, inefficient.
     
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  40. jstuhlman

    jstuhlman We noticed.

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    just throw your bike in the trash