it's Tom Cruise's fault isnt it. just tell us
G-BOXX Planetary, first pics
- Thread starter Wilhelm
- Start date
not surprising really. heavy $8k frames don't seem too viable in this market. development costs are high & they can't be moving many units (i've yet to see a gboxx bike in the flesh).
There has been one at Diablo a couple of times. A guy from Diamondback US got Diamondback UK to sell him one.
Do people even break that many derailleurs anymore? Even at a WC level how many times do you see a derailleur being the problem.
Do people even break that many derailleurs anymore? Even at a WC level how many times do you see a derailleur being the problem.
I think the last 2 are more reasons.
What the hell costs $8k on some GBoxx frame?
GBoxx itself is for 1000eur approx. (the same as Speedhub). How much was Lahar MK9 for, like $4k?Yep there is certainly more than possible to config a 4 bar link to provide zero chain growth.. it has been done many times before - just not many (any) with a gboxx....Sorry, but I disagree. If you have same size sprockets front and rear the chainline does NOT become irrelevant. The IC of the chainline and swingarm is at Infinity, therefore, the Anti-squat foce line is calculated as PARALLEL to these lines (through the rear tyre contact point)
If you were to mount the main pivot high enough to provide 100% anti-squat at sag, it would have to be around 360mm above the BB (according to my measurements)- too high to be practicable.
What would be good is a gearbox with geared-up ratios so that you could have a smaller front sprocket than rear. This way you could have a concentric pivot with the required anti-squat values.
Also, whose to say a linkage system around a g-boxx2 would need a tensioner
Besides the bad news about the G-Boxx 2 NICOLAI unveilled the follow-up model of the "Nucleon TFR", the "Nucleon AM" this spring at the Taipei International Cycle Show 2010. It uses the G-Boxx 1 with a revised, a little more uphill oriented geometry, like the "Helius AM". Unfortunately, the weight of the new frame seems to be reduced only a few grams (about 150 g). No genuine new stuff. Discussions about the "Nucleon AM" are to be read here and there. An interesting "Nucleon TFR" setup database is to be seen here.
A few pics:
A few pics:
Split pivot(or Horst) that bad boy and I'd rock it as a trail bike. Even as is it'd be fun. Cost more than a decent car to get here in Oz though
I agree, these modifications were very nice to have. I hope that we´ll see a Horst-link with a G-Boxx 1 at EuroBike 2010 ("Nucleon E2"). But I´m afraid not to see a SplitPivot in a NICOLAI bike (may be that I´m wrong, but I suppose that Karl and Dave are not so close friendsSplit pivot(or Horst) that bad boy and I'd rock it as a trail bike. Even as is it'd be fun. Cost more than a decent car to get here in Oz though
).
Horst would be the harder option, as chain growth would need to be overcome. Would be my prefered option so a slightly higher vertual pivot could be achieved. But my main reason for wanting either is just so the brakes don't affect the suspension, and that's realisticly not that big a deal anyway, and liked by some, so I'd still be happy to ride it as is. Does it offer anything over a Hammerschmidt with a light rear mech and hub, I don't know, only one shifter, and possibly lighter rear wheel(unsprung weight), more reliability maybee, better protection, better ground clearance, etc etc, but at what cost(weight penalty if any).I agree, these modifications were very nice to have. I hope that we´ll see a Horst-link with a G-Boxx 1 at EuroBike 2010 ("Nucleon E2"). But I´m afraid not to see a SplitPivot in a NICOLAI bike (may be that I´m wrong, but I suppose that Karl and Dave are not so close friends
not really a fan of the heavy / proprietary gboxx platform. this, however, i want:
Nice photo. I can't wait for these. The downhill version looks sooo good.
Is that carbon?
Zerode is almost my last hope for gearbox bikes.
Such a nice layout for the frame. great lines.
Is that carbon?
Zerode is almost my last hope for gearbox bikes.
Such a nice layout for the frame. great lines.
Well yeah, goes without saying I'd rather a carbon Zeroed also, but I've heard no mention of them being made for sale
and I'd guess they'd like to do an ally one(trail bike), but even the DH frames not being sold yet.Yep it's carbon, but it's one of the two origonal Zeroed blokes personal ride.
Don't loose hope for gearbox bikes, with so much marketing potential available, the big players will come around soon. Just like it took a while for carbon frames for DH(disregarding early GTs Treks etc). With the new Alfine 11 out, I'm sure once it proves it's reliability, some company will stick it in a frame.
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apparently things are still moving forward for zerode - just taking a bit of time. currently setting up stateside production.
And that's the sad thing here. Big names are not willing and able to go into real progressive changes. They are waiting for small builders to explore and develope all necessary basic. Then they jump in the train shouting "look at us, we've made such a big step forward for you".
Yep, sad but true.
GT were on the money with the ITs, just a shame they killed it with poor geo, and a dated design. A new version of it with same pivot location with new Alfine, better geo, adn Carbon like the Fury, would be so cool. Even as a trail bike version. Wouldn't go with GTs floating BB trip though. Even if they could incoporate the floating BB/URT thingy(name slips my mind), it's still be cool, and possibly even better. But this is a heavily derailed thread now, and I don't want to take anything from what I consider a decent offering from Nicolai.
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Huge shame that the G-boxx2 is no longer available!
I have one here and am currently building a frame around it. This frame will be out of date before it's even finished Pity, as it is a split-pivot design and I know how much people on RM are looking forward to seeing one. It also is an Anti-Squat design (not PRO-squat as most g-boxx designs are).
I hope the g-boxx3 will be a huge leap forward but the only problem is that there is no release date forseen and it doesn't conform to the g-con standard . I know this because of an e-mail from Kalle Nicolai himself. He is apparently really busy with electric bike at the mo, so who knows when G-boxx3 will be out.
Nicolai said in the Wilhelm's link (via Google translator!) that Ion g-boxx2 demand outstripped manufacturing capabilities, seems a strange decision to stop production to me! Surely you would increase production (if possible) to match demand, not the opposite.
As for the Zerode, I met up with Rob Metz (the designer) when I was on holiday in NZ. The carbon trailbike he is riding is truely a thing of beauty
.Looks even better in real life. As said before, manufacturing of a Alu version (DH and trail) is currently being being set up in the US.
I have one here and am currently building a frame around it. This frame will be out of date before it's even finished
Pity, as it is a split-pivot design and I know how much people on RM are looking forward to seeing one. It also is an Anti-Squat design (not PRO-squat as most g-boxx designs are).I hope the g-boxx3 will be a huge leap forward but the only problem is that there is no release date forseen and it doesn't conform to the g-con standard
. I know this because of an e-mail from Kalle Nicolai himself. He is apparently really busy with electric bike at the mo, so who knows when G-boxx3 will be out.Nicolai said in the Wilhelm's link (via Google translator!) that Ion g-boxx2 demand outstripped manufacturing capabilities, seems a strange decision to stop production to me! Surely you would increase production (if possible) to match demand, not the opposite.
As for the Zerode, I met up with Rob Metz (the designer) when I was on holiday in NZ. The carbon trailbike he is riding is truely a thing of beauty
.Looks even better in real life. As said before, manufacturing of a Alu version (DH and trail) is currently being being set up in the US.
^^^ Any chance of sneaky teaser picture? ^^^
I am afraid that the decision not to enhance the production capabilities given an increasing demand but to stop the production of the G-Boxx 2 instead is not open to scrutiny at all. May be there was a mistake in the phrasing of the original post of the NICOLAI staff member.Huge shame that the G-boxx2 is no longer available!
I have one here and am currently building a frame around it. This frame will be out of date before it's even finished
I hope the g-boxx3 will be a huge leap forward but the only problem is that there is no release date forseen and it doesn't conform to the g-con standard
Nicolai said in the Wilhelm's link (via Google translator!) that Ion g-boxx2 demand outstripped manufacturing capabilities, seems a strange decision to stop production to me! Surely you would increase production (if possible) to match demand, not the opposite.
As for the Zerode, I met up with Rob Metz (the designer) when I was on holiday in NZ. The carbon trailbike he is riding is truely a thing of beauty
However, I hope that you will continue your interesting gearbox project and switch to the G-Boxx 3 when it will come out someday.
Another ongoing gearbox project with a ROHLOFF gearhub is the "Stonedigger". The website contains an interesting downloadable write-up about gearbox technology in MTBs (unfortunately in German, only). So far I know they are preparing the start of the series production in the next future under the revived label "TOLLWUT" (=rabies, website under construction).
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wow - this document is a fairly comprehensive survey of the history of gearbox development. impressive!
http://www.troeger-engineering.de/content/lexikon/Allgemeines_ueber_Getriebe_v3.pdf
cool pic of the original honda bike w/ the cvt. i seem to recall reading somewhere that this was actually developed independently by some guy then assimilated by the honda hive. anybody back this up?
http://www.troeger-engineering.de/content/lexikon/Allgemeines_ueber_Getriebe_v3.pdf
cool pic of the original honda bike w/ the cvt. i seem to recall reading somewhere that this was actually developed independently by some guy then assimilated by the honda hive. anybody back this up?
Not much to show at the mo. Still waiting for delivery of some Alu- as soon as it gets here it will be going to get waterjetted. I don't want to show CAD drawings before it's built, but here are the downtube, top tube (bent but not mitred), and seatube.
I also have the jig table machined down ready for fixings.
Indeed, the Japanese Isao IDA (owner of KAMIKAZE Sports) developed the KAMIKAZE SPL, and the KAMIKAZE RNF 2, the two predecessors of the HONDA RN 01. Actually, there are some speculations on a possible revival of the HONDA bikes.wow - this document is a fairly comprehensive survey of the history of gearbox development. impressive!
http://www.troeger-engineering.de/content/lexikon/Allgemeines_ueber_Getriebe_v3.pdf
cool pic of the original honda bike w/ the cvt. i seem to recall reading somewhere that this was actually developed independently by some guy then assimilated by the honda hive. anybody back this up?
The documents of Ralf TROEGER´s website are very interesting. He is a mechanical engineer and made his diploma thesis in the field of gearbox technology in MTBs. The write-ups on his website seem to be a spin-off of this diploma project.
Cool man, I love seeing different stuff (especially home built!) hope you'll show us some more pics as it goes together!
Will we be seeing it any of the SDA races?
Is this the first bike you've built?
Yeah, deadline for completion is the Ft.William SDA in September. Will be a tough first test for it!
Maybe see you there?
Maybe see you there?
Unfortuetly not, extreme slackness ensured I failed to even get a reserve ticket this year
Hmmm doubt you could have picked a tougher test for it's first outing!
oz, europe, usa.... no difference. the price is really a shame. the ion gboxx 2 frame was 4649,- € . and no shock included.Split pivot(or Horst) that bad boy and I'd rock it as a trail bike. Even as is it'd be fun. Cost more than a decent car to get here in Oz though
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haha, yeah - this frameset as pictured - 5999 (about $8kusd) - but you do get a shock.oz, europe, usa.... no difference. the price is really a shame. the ion gboxx 2 frame was 4649,- . and no shock included.
I don't recall seeing this one with the Horst link. Was it G'Boxx2? Was it producced? Did it have more rearward axle path(chain growth)? Looks like it with the little under swingarm roller.haha, yeah - this frameset as pictured - 5999€ (about $8kusd) - but you do get a shock.
Edit:- oh and what appears like a Rohloff type tensioner at the rear.
The chain tensioner was made by Kalle NICOLAI as a proprietary component of this bike model with Horst link, not by Bernhard ROHLOFF:
More nice pics of the "Ion G-Boxx 2": http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=534156.
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"Rohloff type tensioner".
I agree.
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Are there any decent ride reports on this Nicolai?
There are only a few informations about the riding performance to find, so far I know:
- Ion G-Boxx 2 without Horst link (model year 2009): http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showthread.php?t=377699 resp. http://falllineproductions.blogspot.com/2009/01/ausprobiert-nicolai-ion-g-boxx-ii.html (same report, in German)
- Ion G-Boxx 2 with Horst link (model year 2010):
http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=5875374&postcount=29,
http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showthread.php?t=465133&highlight=Ion+G-Boxx (in German).
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Cheers.
I wonder how much (words of the year)"Anti Squat" it has.
Pretty well none.