so has the cab service there gotten better or worse? 7/11s?BurlyShirley said:
Genocide in sudan
- Thread starter TheMontashu
- Start date
Bullsh!t. They don't care. I know US advisors to the AU and they say almost universally from the top down anything they do get is stolen or sold for personal gain and that peacekeeping is the last thing on their mind.DaveW said:Oh they care... They just don't have the bankroll to do much.
military peacekeeping is an ubelivably expensive undertaking, most countrys in africa are dirt poor and don't have the 10's of millions spare to pay for the job to be done.
As the comander of the african union mission to the Sudan said, give us the tools and we can do the job.
Unfortuately no one has done so.
And since the US could careless, Again I ask where are the world's protectors.... China? Russia? France? Germany? Iran? Bueller? Bueller?
But, and its absolutely sad, is that the world community is simply implementing the plan i laid out here....
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105775&highlight=Darfur
The only difference is that there were apparently more of fodder than I orginially anticipated. Oh what's a few million dead amongest friends....
I know my modern middle east history, don't even start.kinghami3 said:
No actually you don't.TheMontashu said:
Go awayDRB said:
Apparently, you don't. :teacher:TheMontashu said:
Seriosly you are one of the most anoying people EVER, go away, I know middle east history and alot about history in general for that matter.Transcend said:
So Israel's attempts to wipe out the Palestinian homeland doesn't mean anything to you? Please, give me a break. Yes, the Jewish population has suffered greatly, but right now many Israelis would love nothing more than to never have to deal with that bothersome Arab population again. Only now have they declared a boarder, and I don't think anyone is betting on that line staying and the settlements not going back in.TheMontashu said:
Lets also not forget that Israel has created palistine, it never existed, a palistinian did not exist till isreal gave the gaza strip its independance. Lets not also forget that the israeli deligation accepted the partition plan that the U.N. created, while the arabe rejected it swearing to the "palistinians" that israel would never exist. Lets not also forget that israels war of independance was an arab invasion. What about the many atempts to give eqypt the gaza stip. What about israels atemps aof giving the arabs all th land they asked for less jeruselem (by the why jeruselem is not once mentioned in the koran, it was made holy to give muslems something to fight for when to crusades came, instead of having no reason to fight and jest leaving) and lets also not forget the muslem religion preaching the forced converion of non muslems.kinghami3 said:
Boy am I glad the world was created in 1948!TheMontashu said:
edit: Your whole argument is based on the premise that the Jewish people have been there the whole time. The fact is, they signed the partition-plan because it gave them a safe-haven, and the Arabs rejected it because that safe-haven was on their land. The Arab-Israeli war(s) were defensive from the Arab perspective.
Then you should know that arguing about a Israeli "homeland" is absurd. It was created in 1948, end of story. There was plenty of people there a LONG time before the jews, and they have every right to be pissed off that their land was taken away simply to placate others.TheMontashu said:
Israel is as much to blame for the violence in the middle east as anyone else, possibly more. They aren't exactly some innocent bystandard being picked on by the great Arab bully.
Also, it must really annoy you that the rest of us know what we are talking about, and that you just sound like a moron high school kid. Oh wait....
edit: also, way to cock up a thread about Sudan with more israeli nonsense.
First off if the UN had stepped in and just said that it was genocide then it opens the door for stepping in and resolving the issue. The UN does not want to step on anyones toes and has not, I believe, ever stated that genocide is occuring in the Sudan. Actually, the US (Madam Secretary Rice) called the situation in the Sudan genocide just recently. As far as I know the US is the only country that has declared it a genocide. Currently my wife is in the Sudan working on Displaced Peoples and has been meeting with top officials on all sides for a UN report. She has not told me the full story about what is going on there as she does not want to talk about it in detail by email or phone, as she has told me the walls there have ears (ie she worries that her internet access and phone are likely being monitored). Hopefully, something will come out of that report and get the UN to declare what the US has already stated that it is genocide and that will allow the UN the ability to step up and in to deal with the situation with a strong response. As right now in Darfur they are to allow the UN in, but the Ministers in charge of Darfur are severely restricting the UN's access and the size of the group they will let in to see what is going on there. Overall it is a terrible situation that I hope the report my wife is working on will make a difference and allow necessary measures to be undertaken to resolve the situation.
Arabs land??? Last I checked the british had the land. And the partition plan was created as such to give the areas that had more jews to the jews and the area with more arabs to the arabs, as well most of the jews land was in the desert in the south wich I.M.O. is hot as hell and has little to no natural recorces.kinghami3 said:Boy am I glad the world was created in 1948!
edit: Your whole argument is based on the premise that the Jewish people have been there the whole time. The fact is, they signed the partition-plan because it gave them a safe-haven, and the Arabs rejected it because that safe-haven was on their land. The Arab-Israeli war(s) were defensive from the Arab perspective.
You are right israel was created in 1948, shortly after that Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and Egypt envaded. Some how they lost, israel still existed. Palistine on the other hand at this time did not, The gaza strip was controled by egypt and the west bank by jordan (still palistinians do not have any land)Transcend said:
Then in 67 egypt sent most of it's army to the border, along with jordan and syria, israel took out that army and took the sinia, west bank and golan. Several years later israel have egypt back the sinia and as well tryed to give back the gaza strip and let another arab country deal with setting up a state but egypt would not take it. The west bank was not given back, but probably should have been with a buffer zone around jeruselem, and the golan could not be given back due to syrias weekly artiliry attacks on the kineret.
As well in 1973 syria and egypt again invaded only to be pushed back with no israeli teritorial gain. Then in 77 egypt steped up and made piece with israel.
O and lets not forget the arabs were blowing themselfs up almost daily during the antifadas on buses, killing inocent women and children.
Lets also not forget the israeli army physicly forcing israeli citizens out of settlements in the gaza strip jest to give arabs there own land in "israel" for the first time I might add. Doing this almost cause a civil war in israel, polatics are HUGE there, you can not comprehend how torn that nation was during the pull out and how tense things were. I saw a man in the old city living in a tent who hadn't eaten for a month to protest pulling out.
Now trancend, if you think trying to make a 16 year old look dumb is cool you are sadly mistaken. You look like an imature insicure asshat
edit, from what it looks like it is the arabs responsable for causing much of the violence, not the israelis. But I donnot trancend I am a dumb highschool kid, feel free to ignore history, you are right.
The problem is that, and its typical, folks just know the part of history that supports their beliefs and notions about the way things are. The rest they dismiss, conveniently forget, or simply never bother to learn.
Transcend's and Montashu's little missives here are a perfect example of that.
Transcend's and Montashu's little missives here are a perfect example of that.
Last thing I checked the British lived in England.TheMontashu said:
Get over yourself, they are both equally to blame. Until the bias on both sides dissappears, the violence will continue. People taking sides need to realize this.TheMontashu said:
Someone blows up a bus, so the other side attacks a village with attack helicopters. 2 wrongs do not make a right. The fact that the ISraelis want to be seen as the "stable" side makes it even more ridiculous when they retaliate with armour and attack helicopters.
The only history you care to understand is the revisionist Israeli side of things. Others believe the Arab side. The truth lies somewhere in between.
The British had this think called an empire.kinghami3 said:
The israelis to retaliate to attacks in a very extream way. My point for suporting israel is quite simple, time and tim again the arab world has called for the death of isreal. Isreal wants a country, nothing more nothing less. The jews do not want the rest of the middle east. Jews need israel for self preservation, they have been persicuted time and time again and literaly millions killed. Starting with the babalonians and ending with hitler jews have been murdured for simply being jewish, with a homeland the jewish people can prevent this from hapening again. The arab world as a whole jest wants more land and want to kill the jews (do not deny that, iran has talked about it more than once)Transcend said:
Edit, while both sides might be responsable for violence it is the motives behind the violence that matters.
So did the Ottomans, at least until the end of WWI, when it was divided up. In fact, there was no significant Jewish population in Palestine (which, by the way, did exist) until 1881 when the first wave of Jewish immigration took place, fueled by Semitic sympathies. In other words, the British Empire didn't annex Palestine until after WWI. Even then, it was an Arab population that felt that their homeland was actively being taken over by the Jewish population.TheMontashu said:
I would fully agree with you, if it only meant that they didn't displace a population that had called that their home, and then actively make war on them like they had done nothing wrong.TheMontashu said:
isreal has fought 3 majer wars sence 1948, 2 of wich were initiated by arab nations, and the other one was a premtive strike when the israelis found several tank divisions an there boarderkinghami3 said:
No, it isn't. Perpetuating in the violence is what matters.TheMontashu said:
edit: Iran doesn't matter. They can thump their chests and posture all they want. Any military action from Iran would be struck down in about a week by the rest of the world. Iran is a non issue.
Palestine as an independant state has never existed, the term palistine comes from the biblical term pleeshteem wich was a group of polythiestic city states that controled modern day israel before moses lead the jews to the promise land (I am not saying this is fact but this is were the term palistinian came from) later when the crusades came the muslems were told they had ancient biblical ties to the land (simaler to what was done with jeruselem)kinghami3 said:
As well the Jews did no force arabs away in the early 1900s, jews moved in and kept to themselvs, did not start violence and live on their kibutzime and tried to make a life in the promise land. The jews wanted to live there lives, nothing more. By 1948 there were a half million jews in the area given to them by the U.N.
And if the arabs realy wanted peace and "there land" back they wouldnt be blowing themselfs up as israel tried to turn power over in the gaza strip, and shortly after that destroying all the EU offices (whome by the way provide a HUGE portion of international aid to the palistinian state)
The point I'm trying to get across is that both sides consider their actions defensive. Israel was billed by the Western world as a safe place for the Jews, while the whole time the Arabs were warning that they wouldn't let this go without retaliation. It's Arabs vs. Jews, not Egypt and Syria vs. Israel. The Arabs are angry because the Jews took their land, and the Jews are angry because they were lead to that land believing it was theirs, recovered for them by the British. It does no good to think that neither side is at fault, or that either side is to blame.TheMontashu said:
Idealy perpetuating violence is what matters, but you have to remember the arab world is very diferent from the west, and isreal is diferent thatn both of thoes. Extreamist muslems will conitnue to blow themselvs up untill israel does not exist, they do not think rationaly. They are like a drunk who you can't talk out of a fight, they live there life to the T out of a book that says to wage holy war, clearly by the actions of the palistinians the only thing they listen to is violence.Transcend said:No, it isn't. Perpetuating in the violence is what matters.
edit: Iran doesn't matter. They can thump their chests and posture all they want. Any military action from Iran would be struck down in about a week by the rest of the world. Iran is a non issue.
You're right, the Palestinian state never existed, but that doesn't mean that the Arab land of Palestine never existed. Just because their systems of government don't fit into our Western perspectives doesn't mean that they didn't consider the land their own. (I'm not going to bother discussing the theology behind the exodus right now.)TheMontashu said:
No, the Jews displaced the Arabs, and this was actively happening during the wars.
The Arabs don't want peace. They want the Jews gone from their homeland. It is the exact same from the Jewish perspective. Both of these people have legitimate ties to the land, and both call it their own. The only problem is that the Palestinians have rocks and suicide bombers to fight with, while Israel have tanks and attack helicopters given to them by the US to fight with, so we tend to see them as a more legitimate government.
I have heard people say that, there is no proof that that hapend, but it very well could have. The arabs say it hapend the jews say it didn't. Arabs did leave during the wars, some say it was the jews, while others say it was the invading arab countries telling the palistinians to leave and that they would get there land back when the war was over (that did happen in 48 but and not posative if it hapend again)kinghami3 said:
The jews do not all want the arabs out of israel (some of the far right do) but the vast magority want piecfull coexistance.kinghami3 said:
TheMontashu said:
Kept to themselves and did not start violence???
Never heard of the
Irgun or the Stern Gang then have you.... Jewish activists in british palestine in the 1920-1930's partly invented the modern terrorist organisation (though the IRA is the chief originator of modern guerrilla warfare)
Although the Stern gang were pretty fvcked up....And tried to buddy up with the Nazi's
not given purchased from if I'm not mistaken.kinghami3 said:
We are greedy military industrial capitalist pigs aren't we?
ink: Judaism is older than Islam is it not? And the original crusade was fought to retake Jeruselam after the Muslims violently kicked everyone else out if I recall. So what we have is two sides laying claim to a land and a war that is older than the combatants. Even if you only go back to WWII (when Truman acknowedged Isreal's independence) it is still a conflict that predates the people most effected by it. By this time it has become a religion in and of itself to those involved and likely won't be resolved for that very reason. yes there were jews living in the middle east before to founding of modern Isreal, but they lived lives as sub-citizens. Under sharia law you will find Dhimmi, non muslims have to pay a tax to live under muslim rule and they aren't given equal rights under the law. Not a way I would want to live. If you want an intersting insight into Arab culture read the 1001 nights. The folklore of a civilization gives great insight into their values.
As far as Sudan goes, if we did get involved there it would be worse than Iraq. It's one group of Muslims killing another group because of their ethnicity and inability to accept rule from the other. Jumping into their sandbox and asking them to play nice just isn't going to work. Just look at the Balkans, or Kashmir.
The U.N. won't get involved because half the people in a position within the U.N. to do something come from countries that aren't much better than the regime in Sudan. The U.N. is like a dictators country club.
That being said, I say we turn it all into glass and make some beutiful stained glass window for the Vatican.
Your right there was violence against the british throughout the early 1900sDaveW said:
Lolz.noname said:
Really insightful stuff, there.noname said:
Your inability to grasp sarcasm never ceases to astound.......Transcend said:Really insightful stuff, there.
the montashu posted up something about being jewish and well you've been here long enough to know where that leads............
Clearly, but the world didn't do so great in Mogadishu either...or the Balkans for that matter. I guess they at least tried in the Balkans... Don't really count on 1st world nations to do much in the grand scheme of things to help others unless they are shamed into it or it directly affects them. It's sad, but incredibly true.LordOpie said:
I'm not all that knowledgable on the Sudan thing. Which one of the murderous bloodthirsty militias are we supposed to aid as the "good guy's" and which corrupt sociopath are we supposed to have "democratically" elected into office? Too many funny names and acronyms, I get confused.
ooooo, looky that! My Imbel stock is up. To bad we can't get a decent market rolling in Russia or China. There making a killing on this.
ooooo, looky that! My Imbel stock is up. To bad we can't get a decent market rolling in Russia or China. There making a killing on this.
He started rambling about how Israel was on a crusade to stomp out genocide worldwide.LordOpie said:
