foreign auto makers seem to have no issue Stateside. they seem to be doing better than the big 3 who are union
and dante....really??
I went to a protest, and a capitol broke out.
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and dante....really??
Oh please, you really can't accept the occasional red square every once in a LOOOOOOONG time?? I said I'd cancel it out at some point in the future, jeez, what more do you want? Here, maybe this will help you feel better till then.
As for the WI budget, here's a pretty good synopsis, at least better than I can describe:
http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_90196216-3b66-11e0-a327-001cc4c03286.html
After reading some more articles about this, here's where my issues are, not with WI in particular, but this situation.
The Governor and the Rep majority legislature shouldn't have the ability or will to simply try to end collective bargaining in one fell swoop. That makes them appear as union busting capitalist. If you need to raise public workers, specifically teachers in this case, contributions to health and pension benefits, then negotiate.
The Republican Governor and the legislature were voted in by election. The Democrats that ran away to a Best Western made themselves look like 3 year olds who are pitching a hissy fit and avoiding a vote they knew they were going to lose.
Solutions? In a perfect world, they'd behave like adults and sit down and debate, negotiate and compromise.
The Governor and the Rep majority legislature shouldn't have the ability or will to simply try to end collective bargaining in one fell swoop. That makes them appear as union busting capitalist. If you need to raise public workers, specifically teachers in this case, contributions to health and pension benefits, then negotiate.
The Republican Governor and the legislature were voted in by election. The Democrats that ran away to a Best Western made themselves look like 3 year olds who are pitching a hissy fit and avoiding a vote they knew they were going to lose.
Solutions? In a perfect world, they'd behave like adults and sit down and debate, negotiate and compromise.
it wasnt so much about the red square really, but can no one have a stance/opinion against a union?Oh please, you really can't accept the occasional red square every once in a LOOOOOOONG time?? I said I'd cancel it out at some point in the future, jeez, what more do you want? Here, maybe this will help you feel better till then.
ive already douched thankyouverymuch.
that irked me the most. they had to have the police try and find the Dems. they obviously know they were going to lose, but why not still vote against it like the people want?
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Technically, the negotiations go on between the municipalities and the employees. So if my community wants to vote teachers a pay raise, we do so. If my community wants to pay 100% of the teacher's health care costs, we can do so, for now. This bill PROHIBITS communities from opting to spend more than 88% of a public employee's health care costs. Doesn't matter if that's what we want, we would be prohibited from doing so thanks to state intervention.
They're blocking a vote in a legal manner, just like the filibustering that's been going on in the US Senate for the past 2 years. Don't like it? Eliminate the rule that you need 20 out of 33 senators present in order to hold a vote. It's there to protect the minority from the majority.X3pilot said:
Without an actual filibuster rule (like the US Senate has), this is the only way to force a negotiation/compromise. Walker has acted like a megalomaniac before (he claimed his county had a "fiscal emergency" so he could circumvent his council and have the ability to fire security workers at will last year... too bad a court disagreed and socked his prior constituents with the $1m+ tab), and has refused to accept *any* changes to the non-budgetary parts of the bill.X3pilot said:
He governs in a "His way or the Highway" style of leadership. The Dems just took the second option.
That's one.
keep going
I know you have more cases upon which you'll expand in detail because an overall distaste for the very organizations that made life in this country tolerable because of only a handful of examples would be well........you know.
Toyota, Honda, Nissa, BMW, MB, VW all are union free Stateside with the first two dominating the US market. 30% of a UAW worker's dues add to the over $1bil strike fund
life is just a bit different from when Unions first actually made a difference and when they first started appearing.
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This. Competition for your job drives better performance. Better performance drives more efficiencies. More efficiencies drive cost savings. Cost savings allow for funds to be allocated in a manner which promotes those who do their jobs best. Those who do their jobs best are the most competitive. Do we see the circle here?Toyota, Honda, Nissa, BMW, MB, VW all are union free Stateside with the first two dominating the US market. 30% of a UAW worker's dues add to the over $1bil strike fund
life is just a bit different from when Unions first actually made a difference and when they first started appearing.
If you were to bring competition to perform to a place like the DMV, I would put big $ on the lines moving faster, more getting done, and for the end consumers (you know the tax payers) more benefit for what you pay.
Because there are literally no other factors at work there. None at all.
Atomic Tangerine or Cerulean?
Joker's comment pretty much summed up why those 6 auto companies are producing better products and doing better then the struggling Big 3
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If only that were the case, then it's a non-issue, right? But it sure doesn't happen in my industry.
Trickle down much?
I'm going to do something more fun than explain this to you, perhaps pounding rusty nails into the head of my cock with a spoon...
Wow, didn't know that about the locals having the ability to vote local pay issues with unioned employees. If that's the case, then it's a will of the local people, who vote at that level for what they want, versus the will of the overall state, who seemed to have elected a majority republican government to enact their will, so does it not then become of "law of the land" type situation?
As for unions, you are either all in with them or all out against them. Do we need unions to ensure safe, healthy work envornments, sure, someone has to police the Feds and State agencies that are charged with that. Do workers deserve representation at the management level, yes they do.
Do unions need to be using the $$ from their base to become PACs, no. Are most of them operating like modern day mafias, yes.
As for unions, you are either all in with them or all out against them. Do we need unions to ensure safe, healthy work envornments, sure, someone has to police the Feds and State agencies that are charged with that. Do workers deserve representation at the management level, yes they do.
Do unions need to be using the $$ from their base to become PACs, no. Are most of them operating like modern day mafias, yes.
Let's ignore the union debate for a minute. These are real people facing real harm. Let's do the math.
For a teacher making 50k a year -
1/2 of a 8.5% pension contribution = $2125
12% of health care for a family of 4 = easily $1000
So, the Governor is proposing to take away $3125 from each of these people and they are being unreasonable? They are also taking away their bargaining rights. I thought right wingers were for personal rights and against the redistribution thing.
The trade imbalance, Wall Street, health care companies, oil companies and defense contractors are literally sucking trillions of dollars out of our economy. Attacking workers is not the answer to our problems. At what point will the right wingers actually stand up for their neighbors?
For a teacher making 50k a year -
1/2 of a 8.5% pension contribution = $2125
12% of health care for a family of 4 = easily $1000
So, the Governor is proposing to take away $3125 from each of these people and they are being unreasonable? They are also taking away their bargaining rights. I thought right wingers were for personal rights and against the redistribution thing.
The trade imbalance, Wall Street, health care companies, oil companies and defense contractors are literally sucking trillions of dollars out of our economy. Attacking workers is not the answer to our problems. At what point will the right wingers actually stand up for their neighbors?
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or sticking your head up your union bosses's ass?
oh lordy lord. someone disagrees with you
you are obviously pro union and i am obviously anti union. if you dont like my pov, then im done trying to prove my point
edit: of the 7 people i know in a union, 4 hate it and the other 3 love it since they are teachers...go figure
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Again, you ignorant slut, I've never been a union member. So you can dispense with that point of attack. You may as well make fun of me for being Russian or Brazilian.or sticking your head up your union bosses's ass?
oh lordy lord. someone disagrees with you
you are obviously pro union and i am obviously anti union. if you dont like my pov, then im done trying to prove my point
edit: of the 7 people i know in a union, 4 hate it and the other 3 love it since they are teachers...go figure
It's not that I don't like your pov, it's that it's unbelievably lacking in any sort of nuance or real world implications.
what "real world implication" is there? yes if you take out every single union at once would not be a good idea, but PLENTY of companies seem to be doing just fine without a union sucking them dry. unions use their collective bargaining bullsh1t as a way of strong arming people for what they want.
and btw, name calling seems to be the way of pro-union people
http://detnews.com/article/20110112/AUTO04/101120374/1148/rss25/UAW-to-foreign-automakers--‘We’re-not-the-Evil-Empire’
I am guessing the teachers love it because they know they could stand to make less without a union and they make sh!t now as it is. If I were a teacher, I would feel the same way (teachers make sh!t, that's why I never pursued teaching).edit: of the 7 people i know in a union, 4 hate it and the other 3 love it since they are teachers...go figure
if they make sh!t now even with a union, why even pursue the career like you decided to do?
if starting pay is as low as it is in Dante's state, that is sad and funny
What about those making $50k with no pension or free hc benefits?
I made $50k when I was at Morgan Stanley. I paid for my healthcare, 401k, and IRA. I was living off $30k pre-tax in the second most expensive city in the country.
Looking at the first CoL calculator on Google, $50k in the Bloomington metro area is $75k in the SF area. While that's not knocking the doors down kind of money, that's more than a LOT of people in this country make. A lot of those people making more don't get pensions and don't have free healthcare.
Life has it's ups and downs. Millions of people don't have jobs and are in far worst situations.
Also, if they were teaching for the love of it, why did they all walk out of class? Every last one of them should be charged with illegally walking out of classes.. let alone the record number of sick days. If I was an Education Dept senior member, I would be walking around taking pictures of teachers in the state house then pairing them against those taking sick days. Let them pay for their 'sick day' as it was clearly a vacation day...
i thought it was common knowledge that grade school teachers got paid like sh*t? 
Explain Germany.
I shaved my head in November because of lice......
repost from somewhere else...
I wish I only had to pay $19.50 a day for daycare. WTF?
My wife made $14642 last year. Granted, she only teaches afternoon kindergarten so she is only paid to work half time, although that certianly isn't the case, especially @ report card time. If she was full time her salary would "double" to a whopping $29284, and this is my wifes 5th year there. Every single teacher my wife works with who does not have a significant other with a job is working another part time job to supplement income. This is at a school who consistently comes in #1 in its state wide test scores. It is absolutely reprehensible that at any school a teacher has to take on a second job or depend on another income just to make ends. Never mind how much the average teacher is paying out of pocket for supplies because the school districts are too broke to buy basic necessities.i thought it was common knowledge that grade school teachers got paid like sh*t?
Wait. So Gov. Walker thinks unions are bad, except the Unions that represent the most socialist of all state programs, the firefighters and cops? 
my mom is a teacher as well, and has something like 30 years of experience. yet her salary is roughly half what i make, and i've been working just shy of 4 years
I've said this before, and will say it again. Pay teachers a premium, and we will get higher quality teachers and better educated kids.
How do we pay for this you ask?
1. withdraw our armies from everywhere but here
2. $50 for a hammer? Go F* yourself mr military; we're halfing your budget
3. Social Security? Did we make commitments, we sure did. Let's make forward cuts for those not currently born/working, as they are not contributing members of society currently.
4. Interest. We bought it, now we pay for it. We have a great bunch of toys that we bought(again see military), like someone with an awesome boat and buttload of debt, you have to pay the piper too.
5. Raise taxes. Yep, raise them. See above for reasoning. Let's see how much stomach the masses have for a giant global military when they actually have to pay for it.
I think people are forgetting the other half of the equation:
how are you going to pay off the state's deficit?
Pension reform is necessary. While I don't think teachers are to blame, they should pay a little more for their benefits.
Unfortunately, this is also time for teacher reform, specifically tenure. It is not directly related to pay, but it is time to discuss it.
P.S. Pesqueeb, what state do you live in? I want to see what the median and entry salaries are for teachers. I can't believe it is $28k.
how are you going to pay off the state's deficit?
Pension reform is necessary. While I don't think teachers are to blame, they should pay a little more for their benefits.
Unfortunately, this is also time for teacher reform, specifically tenure. It is not directly related to pay, but it is time to discuss it.
P.S. Pesqueeb, what state do you live in? I want to see what the median and entry salaries are for teachers. I can't believe it is $28k.
I approve of all of these ideas.
Colorado. But I'll save ya the trouble.
http://www.teachersalaryinfo.com/colorado/teacher-salary-in-cheyenne-mountain-school-district-no-12/
I should add a caveat. My wife teaches @ a charter school, school of choice, voucher school, etc, name varies based on state (ex. in CA a charter school is where the derelicts end up. Not what she is doing) Her school is doing pretty well fiscally, but the district it is attached to is fvcked, as are all Colorado schools next year.
http://www.gazette.com/articles/state-112901-budget-million.html
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Wow, I agree with all of this. I didn't see that coming.
Because that has worked so awesome in other areas?
Example:
When I was at Flatrock, we paid top dollar to bring on a CEO with IPO experience to get us a second round of funding and secure a plan to take the company public.
6 months later, I and everyone else took a 33% reduction in pay to extend the funding we had until our awesome CEO could secure round B. 3 months after our pay reduction, Flatrock was closed and everyone was out the door.
Later it was reveled that the CEO didn't take the pay cut that he asked the rest of the company to take. Better still, when Flatrock closed, he got a huge check for his services. His services? He didn't secure a second round and that was well short of what was expected.
While that sucked, I found another job. I would hate to think of my child having to find another education because the high paid teacher underperformed despite having a stunning resume.
Yes, teachers should be paid more, a lot more. I think there are a ton of great teachers out there now, we should simply pay them more to start with.
That's why my father became a professor rather than a high school drama teacher, it pays better.
What did that guy do after Flatrock?
Worked at a Starbucks because he failed as a CEO, right?
I only wish. According to linkedin:
President & CEO at Vigilan
Awesome.
Passed around like a Catholic Priest.
Latest bit.
Classy, GOP, real classy.
edit: This is the Assembly, where the GOP has a big enough lead that they don't have to worry about obtaining a Quorum. The vote in the Senate is still blocked.
Can't pass it when the Democrats are present, so try to sneak in a vote when they're absent from the chamber...
Classy, GOP, real classy.
edit: This is the Assembly, where the GOP has a big enough lead that they don't have to worry about obtaining a Quorum. The vote in the Senate is still blocked.
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So, if they don't have to have a quorum to pass it, what makes it sneaky, other than convening early?
Any less classy than running to IL to a waterpark resort, then running somewhere else when the media found out, meanwhile, back at the capital, the Sargent of arms is trying to hunt them down?
Face it, WI's government is making the Tea Party look smart.
That's the assembly, where the Republicans have enough to have a quorum. It's the senate Democrats who are blocking a vote. And last I checked blocking a vote is slightly different than holding a secret vote so that the other side doesn't know about it.
The Republicans in DC have been blocking countless votes for the past 2 years. I've yet to hear about a secret vote so that the opposition doesn't even know it's about to take place...
And this is actually pretty much the only path to victory that the Democrats can hope for. They don't have the votes to defeat the Republicans. The *only* thing they can do is try to draw it out as long as possible so that the public's opinion gets behind *them* and forces the Republicans to withdraw it. The Republicans know that the public will probably oppose this, which is why they tried to ram it through in 4 days, in the hopes that they could sneak it under the people's radar.
And my State Senator is doing his job right now. His job is to represent ME, and the rest of the people in his district. This is what we want (according to people who emailed/called him), and so he is representing our interests. I'm pretty proud of him right now.