[loco-gringo]

Poor loco....

Discovery Channel should get rid of "Deadliest Catch" and replace it with a show about the perils and sheer impossibilities of working in a Texas Bicycle shop....that's where the REAL action is.....

"Can you be-LIEVE this guy? He wants a an ODI locking collar!! I mean...HELLO?"

You have apparently been so busy knowing everything to have missed where I said I don't have the problem. In short, it appears to me that people in Oklahoma and Canada are much more retarded than people in Texas.

btw - how much good service can your customers actually get since you spend the largest part of your day teaching us all about how you are smarter than us???

 

[MMike]

You have apparently been so busy knowing everything to have missed where I said I don't have the problem. In short, it appears to me that people in Oklahoma and Canada are much more retarded than people in Texas.

btw - how much good service can your customers actually get since you spend the largest part of your day teaching us all about how you are smarter than us???

Good thing I'm engineering manager and not in customer support, isn't it...And I'm not smarter than everyone. But I bet dollars to donuts, I'm....oh never mind...

 

[Inclag]

Good thing I'm engineering manager and not in customer support, isn't it...And I'm not smarter than everyone. But I bet dollars to donuts, I'm....oh never mind...

Loonies to Tim Horton's?

 

[MMike]

Loonies to Tim Bits?

...in the local parlance, oui....

 

[Leethal]

The LBS average customer and ridemonkey average rider are worlds apart in terms of need.

 

[DirtyMike]

MMike, you crack me up.....Yes, all business is about risk. Mut yo uhave to limit your risk. I challenge ANYONE that thinks the LBS is such a pain int eh ass to go work at one for a year and find out foryourself how much of a pain in the ass it is.

Like I already said....if the shop is good, they will ahve your part in a day or two max. YOu just cant expect a shop to have every part there is out there in stock at all times....Its just too unrealistic. Your Mail/internet orders are teh same Effing way, you dont really think that Jenson USA has every single part they list in stock do you? Eff no, they usually place the order as you order it. **** they dont usually look at it when they get it, they just repack it and go.

Here is a prime example. Sram right side Pull lever, even working in a shop, I had to order it for myself..... guess what.... it was on Backorder for my year of shifter..... Oh check it, I looked at Jensons.... They list it in stock, Holy **** live teh same distance from Corona and Ontario Locations.... Called them up... SOrry its not in stock, But I can order it for you.......I ask Well how long... Ok, My distributer says its backordered....

You have teh same **** with Mail order..... You just never see it.

Yes alot of smaller shops do the" Wait to drop the order till they get free shipping" Trick, they should be upfront as to when the orders are going out though.

Swapping the brakes for instance, I had someone that wanted a set of braks off a Demo 7 I had in stock...... Not a chance in hell was he getting those brakes.... I CANT REPLACE THEM WITH WHAT CAME ON THE BIKE..... teh hoses are a one off color for the bike.

You cant compare custom built multi million dollar machinery to Mass Produced products and expect the same service to be applied.

YOu guys know why service at a bike shop isnt free? Because the shop has to pay someone to do it. In ANY business, you get return on every dollar you spend, so if I pay someone ten - 12 dollars an hour to wrench on bikes, I better be taking in more than that per hour of service done.



I just love this attitude formmost people... Its a bike shop, how hard can it really be......If anyone thinks its really that easy.... try it.

YOu also have to remember that the shops are at teh mercy of there suppliers too. If you **** with your suppliers way things are done too much, you end up with your Big comapnied pulling there stock out of your shop...IE DOns cyclery in Rialto havine Trek and Specialized pull out of there store for undercutting every other shop in the area just to get people in the door, combine that with terrible service that went against what Specialized expected from there dealers.......


There are some things you will see me bend over backwords to help with..... But there are other things that is just not in teh control of the people your working with.


Its not rocket Science, but if yo dont know how it works, it might as well be.




Oh wait.... I have one, My bike uses a 30 MM seatpost..... I think that every bike shop out there needs to have that part now just inc ase I brek mine somewhere and need one to compete in a race....... Good ****ing luck with that one happening.

 

[sanjuro]

Really??? Apparently you would expect potato salad at a Chinese restaurant too. Are you sanjuro???

If you want parts swapped, build a bike. You don't order the f*#king things by picking parts kits with Trek or Giant, or anyone. I understand making people happy, and there are exceptions to be made, but people's desires in this thread are straight up retarded. BTW - when I worked for McLane (one of the largest grocery suppliers in the country) and someone ordered Gatorade, they got the bottles we sold. We didn't mix flavors or change sizes. I tried to reprogram the gigantic mainframe to make these changes, but they were just not technology oriented or consumer based enough to let it happen.

I'm glad I just have normal customers and not a bunch of pretentious know it alls at my shop.

That's funny. I just gave you positive rep too, you f***ing douchebag.

 

[DirtyMike]

The LBS average customer and ridemonkey average rider are worlds apart in terms of need.

Agreed

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

There is something that neither of you guys are getting here.

There is a basic difference in an LBS and the large companies that a lot of you work for. It's called working capital, or a budget. Multi-million dollar corporations have far more money to work with than smaller business. The average LBS simply does not have the money to keep an extensive inventory of parts like a helicopter parts co.

An LBS owner might see taking parts off of a bike and removing it from inventory as more than just lost labor, but more as food off his table. I'm not trying to bag on those who work for a company, but you think differently than a small business owner. It is difficult to truly understand this unless you have actually owned or managed a small business.

LBS for the most part are passion driven positive additions to a community that don't operate the same as a giant corporation. To expect the same from them as an auto parts distributer is a bit unreasonable.

 

[golgiaparatus]

Poor loco....

Discovery Channel should get rid of "Deadliest Catch" and replace it with a show about the perils and sheer impossibilities of working in a Texas Bicycle shop....that's where the REAL action is.....

"Can you be-LIEVE this guy? He wants a an ODI locking collar!! I mean...HELLO?"

Must spread rep

 

[Serial Midget]

Agreed -

How much much money does your average LBS gross in a year? I'm guessing less than a half million.

How many profitable months do they have in a year? I'm guessing 4.

Whats the average year end profit margin of an average LBS? I'm guessing less than 15%.

There is something that neither of you guys are getting here.

There is a basic difference in an LBS and the large companies that a lot of you work for. It's called working capital, or a budget. Multi-million dollar corporations have far more money to work with than smaller business. The average LBS simply does not have the money to keep an extensive inventory of parts like a helicopter parts co.

An LBS owner might see taking parts off of a bike and removing it from inventory as more than just lost labor, but more as food off his table. I'm not trying to bag on those who work for a company, but you think differently than a small business owner. It is difficult to truly understand this unless you have actually owned or managed a small business.

LBS for the most part are passion driven positive additions to a community that don't operate the same as a giant corporation. To expect the same from them as an auto parts distributer is a bit unreasonable.

 

[MMike]

YOu guys know why service at a bike shop isnt free? Because the shop has to pay someone to do it. In ANY business, you get return on every dollar you spend, so if I pay someone ten - 12 dollars an hour to wrench on bikes, I better be taking in more than that per hour of service done.

Of course. YOu need to cover your costs. You aren't doing it for your health

I just love this attitude formmost people... Its a bike shop, how hard can it really be......If anyone thinks its really that easy.... try it.

Like I said, I'd take that bet, but in return a shop person would have to try out working in a "real" industry to see how long they'd last.

YOu also have to remember that the shops are at teh mercy of there suppliers too. If you **** with your suppliers way things are done too much, you end up with your Big comapnied pulling there stock out of your shop...IE DOns cyclery in Rialto havine Trek and Specialized pull out of there store for undercutting every other shop in the area just to get people in the door, combine that with terrible service that went against what Specialized expected from there dealers.......

Yes. Of course. Margins are thin. I get it.

Its not rocket Science, but if yo dont know how it works, it might as well be.
.

Like ANYTHING in any other industry.

Like I said earlier....I only have a problem with shops that get all torqued when I serve myself via the internet, rather than buying it from them.....when they didn't have it and would have to have ordered it.

Look, I'm mocking this whole thing because of this apparent lack of understanding that "we non-shop" people apparently have of how the LBS world works. I believe its difficulty and complexity is being GROSSLY overblown. While I'm not saying it's easy, it also ain't harder than too many other things. And for an LBS to claim that their "industry" is soooooo tough, well they are truly fooling themselves. Seems like a very Generation Y, over-developed sense of self importance. So they sulk when it can be easily proven to them that they may not be as indispensable as they'd like to believe...

 

[Serial Midget]

Seems like a very Generation Y, over-developed sense of self importance. So they sulk when it can be easily proven to them that they may not be as indispensable as they'd like to believe...

My corporation is initiating a supervisory training course based of these the performance results of this generation.

Module 1 - It's OK to be the boss.

Module 2 - Not everyone is a winner.

I'm really, really liking where this seems to be heading.

 

[drkenan]

Whats the average year end profit margin of an average LBS? I'm guessing less than 15%.

0 to -15%???

 

[Da Peach]

I was once accused of "blackmail" by a bike shop guy for trying to negotiate a deal on labour.

Inconceivable!

 

[DirtyMike]

I think the bigger part of this thread...... wasnt about bike shops getting all pissed about people buyuing over the internet, it was people saying that the LBS is crap, thats why we buy over the Internet.

You guys are off about the money made, I am not going to lie, Our shop makes profit every month, and is a hell of alot higher than a 15% gaina t the end of the year.

Average shop, Maybe. Like the little shop in Yucaipa, they do well, but its a Hobby and a passion for the owner, he has a regular job to pay the bills, the shop just sustaines itself.

The shop I am at, little different.

Like I said before though, I dont care were you get your parts, you can bring me a frame, fork, and build kit you bought somewhere else, I will put it all together for you, same price as if you bought it all from me A la carte.

The shopd that get all torques are those that just cant meet the demands of the customer. I dont mean the unresaonable demands, I mean all of them.

Remember the original bitch was that shops didnt have what was needed, so out of anger the OP just ordered it online and said screw the LBS. Whatever, I am sure there is more to it than jsut that.






Here is what is needed to be remembered...... Int buying, means you get no service. Also, Int buying alot of times, can be the same damn orice as teh LBS.

 

[DirtyMike]

0 to -15%???

Maybe the Ma and Pa bike shops, but the good shops out there are pulling a nice profit. I would venture to say our shop is pulling a conservative 30-35%. I have been through the numebrs this year yet, but I am sure we are still online for at least that. Last year was closer to a 45%. Any properly run business should be making 40% without a problem. the trick to that is to have in stock what sells, control the overhead of what deosnt sell, treat your customers right.

 

[MMike]

I was once accused of "blackmail" by a bike shop guy for trying to negotiate a deal on labour.

Inconceivable!

I don't think that word means what you think it means

(I think I had to spell it out)

 

[DirtyMike]

Great movie

 

[MMike]

Anyhoo.....I do not deny that everyone is entitled to make a living. I personally don't expect special treatment, ESPECIALLY if I bought my parts elsewhere. I'll pay for labour, keep your opinions to yourself. Build my bike, I pay you. End of transaction.

 

[drkenan]

Maybe the Ma and Pa bike shops, but the good shops out there are pulling a nice profit. I would venture to say our shop is pulling a conservative 30-35%. I have been through the numebrs this year yet, but I am sure we are still online for at least that. Last year was closer to a 45%. Any properly run business should be making 40% without a problem. the trick to that is to have in stock what sells, control the overhead of what deosnt sell, treat your customers right.

45% Net Profit??!?!?! No fvcking way! I think you are referring to GROSS profit.

Net Profit =$$ left over after ALL expenses are paid

Gross Profit = $$ left over after your costs directly associated with that sale are paid for. Typically Cost of Goods Sold, Credit Card Merchant Fees, Etc.

Let's put this into perspective for a sec. My small business (which I believe to be run well since it's mine and all ) is lucky to have a NET profit of 5%. Of course it varies based on industry - grocery stores have notoriously low margins - like 2-3%. Restaurants also have very low margins - around 5% typically.

So you saying that a bike shop has margins of 45% is blowing me away. If that's the case you'd only have to sell $200k worth of merchandise to make a decent living.

 

[Westy]

45% Net Profit??!?!?! No fvcking way! I think you are referring to GROSS profit.

Net Profit =$$ left over after ALL expenses are paid

Gross Profit = $$ left over after your costs directly associated with that sale are paid for. Typically Cost of Goods Sold, Credit Card Merchant Fees, Etc.

Let's put this into perspective for a sec. My small business (which I believe to be run well since it's mine and all ) is lucky to have a NET profit of 5%. Of course it varies based on industry - grocery stores have notoriously low margins - like 2-3%. Restaurants also have very low margins - around 5% typically.

So you saying that a bike shop has margins of 45% is blowing me away. If that's the case you'd only have to sell $200k worth of merchandise to make a decent living.

Contribution margin vs operation margin.

 

[golgiaparatus]

I think the bigger part of this thread...... wasnt about bike shops getting all pissed about people buyuing over the internet, it was people saying that the LBS is crap, thats why we buy over the Internet.

Actually that is wrong. I created this thread because I always feel guilty when I buy online because I feel like I am not supporting my LBS. However, when I do try to include the LBS they cant seem to help me anyway... so really, I should not, and will not, ever feel bad about going online again.

 

[loco-gringo]

And, in your defense, you didn't say you wouldn't go back.

 

[golgiaparatus]

And, in your defense, you didn't say you wouldn't go back.

Hell yes I'll go back. I've been going there for 10 years. But guess who is never going to be able to get away with giving me a hard time again without hearing my rant. Now on the other hand there is one shop in particular that acted like I was asking them to pul teeth... those guys have lost my business forever.

BTW got the new brakes before this thread left the front page First ride on them in T-15o minutes.

 

[sanjuro]

Why do shops still exist when there are no more local camping/TV/Hi-Fi shops? Because shops do mechanics. The businesses I mentioned offered no specialized services.

If you want parts, the shop is not necessarily the first place to go, from either the customer or the shop owner perspective.

 

[boogenman]

Although I don't frequent them on a regular basis at all, I just can't find a good porn shop anywhere!

Anyone else?

 

[MMike]

Although I don't frequent them on a regular basis at all, I just can't find a good porn shop anywhere!

Anyone else?

Again...ya gotta go on the internet....Service however....

 

[DirtyMike]

There is a good one in Redlands.

 

[boogenman]

Again...ya gotta go on the internet....Service however....

It just isn't the same man.....

 

[boogenman]

There is a good one in Redlands.

a good what?

If it is what I am looking for how far away is from me?

GPS - 42.585760, -78.661337

 

[Kanye West]

There is a good one in Redlands.

There's also the "Motel 7" in Redlands. http://www.motel7-west.com/

 

[DirtyMike]

http://local.yahoo.com/info-20941331-adult-shop-redlands?csz=Redlands,+CA

 

[boogenman]

There's also the "Motel 7" in Redlands. http://www.motel7-west.com/

"cleanliness is our sucess"

 

[Serial Midget]

The industry I work in typically enjoys 45% margins on cost of goods sold. Labor and facilities are the next biggest chunks at 12% & 8% respectively.

My unit EBIT plan for this year is 5.7% I'll be a superstar if I achieve anything over 7%. Of course thats Earnings BEFORE Interest & Taxes.

Maybe the Ma and Pa bike shops, but the good shops out there are pulling a nice profit. I would venture to say our shop is pulling a conservative 30-35%. I have been through the numebrs this year yet, but I am sure we are still online for at least that. Last year was closer to a 45%. Any properly run business should be making 40% without a problem. the trick to that is to have in stock what sells, control the overhead of what deosnt sell, treat your customers right.

 

[JustMtnB44]

I created this thread because I always feel guilty when I buy online because I feel like I am not supporting my LBS. However, when I do try to include the LBS they cant seem to help me anyway... so really, I should not, and will not, ever feel bad about going online again.

My thoughts as well. In fact, after reading this thread I went to a LBS this evening with a list of 4 things to get. I only left with one item, tubes, and they cost almost $5 each. That doesn't mean I will never go to an LBS again, but I certainly don't feel bad about shopping online. Besides, it is more convenient for me to shop online and just wait a few days for parts then drive 15 minutes out of my way on some of the most poorly laid out roads imaginable to buy two tubes at double the price of teh interweb stores.

 

[golgiaparatus]

My thoughts as well. In fact, after reading this thread I went to a LBS this evening with a list of 4 things to get. I only left with one item, tubes, and they cost almost $5 each. That doesn't mean I will never go to an LBS again, but I certainly don't feel bad about shopping online. Besides, it is more convenient for me to shop online and just wait a few days for parts then drive 15 minutes out of my way on some of the most poorly laid out roads imaginable to buy two tubes at double the price of teh interweb stores.

One things that my favorite shop does well is tubes. They have always had 3 for $10 on Torelli Ultralight tubes. That's one thing I have never purchased online.

 

[expostdelirium]

...or maybe i just don't know any better?

Topeka, Kansas has 2 bike shops. 1 is pitiful, the other is awesome. the pitiful one is a 3 min BIKERIDE from my house, and i only need to turn once to get there. the other is 5 min by car, and i only have to turn once to get there. before i graduated from the u in lawrence there were 3 or 4 legit bikeshops, and while there are still 3 or 4, 2 of them are the ones that've ALWAYS been there. the main one, an established bikeshop that's like the taj mahal for a 40 mile radius is near the trail, and has always had stuff i needed (in an emergency) on hand. there is another one around the corner from it that i feel would be able to help you in a pinch, but they are way cheaper. i frequent all 3 "good" ones, but i frequent the good local one, and the newer one more than i do the taj mahal one. i also think things go better for familiar faces, and i've made myself VERY familiar in the local shop. it might also help folks' case if they just walk right past the counter and all the pretty displays, and go right up to the tech area. the main tech guy in the LBS is great. he's friendly, knowledgeable, organized, and knows how to act interested in what you have going on with your bike. i can't imagine dealing with a shop that's not like that. we're lucky up here. your story of woe in tulsa surprises me - i love tulsa, and would move there if i didn't have a good job here - it seems like anything can be found in that town.

i can honestly say that my first build and my latest build would have been difficult without the 2 in lawrence, and nearly impossible without the local one. that said, i order anything and everything i can anywhere i can get it for the right price in the right condition. good luck to all.

 

[cecil]

my lbs would sell anyone any part they want even if it meant taking it off another bike. they also know what bike or bikes you ride and stock things that their customer base needs.

 

[mantispf2000]

my lbs would sell anyone any part they want even if it meant taking it off another bike. they also know what bike or bikes you ride and stock things that their customer base needs.

Same with the shop I worked at in Tacoma, WA. We usually had a good supply of parts, however, for that time that we didn't have the item, yet it was on a floor bike or yet-to-be built boxed bike, we'd offer to take it off and include the labor to put it on if it meant making a sale at that moment. Then we'd re-order it for replacement.

Kept the customers happy and coming back.................