[syadasti]

Diesel drivetrains do cost more in the same application. Even in Europe were they are preferred.

Drivetrain engineers are favoring turbocharged and/or direct injection gasoline and hybrid options for the future, not diesel.

I never said nor doubt that after the initial investment, they are more economical option in truck applications. Most people are shorted-sighted or they simply can't afford the initial premium.

 

[brungeman]

Our emissions standards are just fine, even better than Euro 6 in NOx. The health of the environment and the people in the community is more important than some selfish idiots getting better mileage.

I am not sure I agree with your statement, but as usual your posts are argumentative and inflamatory in nature.

I think you misjudge or you assume when you read, or maybe you have poor comprehension about what is posted.
Typically you have a point you want to make and tailor the argument to make your point, or you argue your point even if it is less than relevant to the original posting.

I am intrigued by the diesel technology because of several factors.
#1. Use less fuel. And I understand that, although you may use less, you will pay more for it… it will most likely be “a wash” in cost per mile… but using less fuel of any type is better for my conscience.
#2. The abundance of frying oil in our area to make bio diesel.
#3. The lack of other cost effective viable options. I am willing to use a vehicle that may get me through to the next break through in alt. transportation.
#4. Familiarity with a tried and true technology whose impacts can be measured in the short term (emissions tests) vs. unknown problems with hybrids battery replacement issues etc.

As you can see my reasons for being interested have nothing to do with paying less at the pump. Yes I will stand by my statement that Mericans are stupid… in many ways including their resistance to change.

 

[jimmydean]

I think you misjudge or you assume when you read, or maybe you have poor comprehension about what is posted.

Quoted for truthiness.

<edit>Diesels are also far less corrosive and last on average a great deal longer. So while the initial cost might be slightly more, the long term savings is there.

Before I bought my truck, there was one with 730k miles on the truck with less than 100k on the motor. The 7.3l International is tough to beat.

 

[IH8Rice]

I think you misjudge or you assume when you read, or maybe you have poor comprehension about what is posted.
Typically you have a point you want to make and tailor the argument to make your point, or you argue your point even if it is less than relevant to the original posting.

Yes I will stand by my statement that Mericans are stupid&#8230; in many ways including their resistance to change.

double yups


i would think that if hybrids are so much better for America, then the rest of the world is wrong for adopting diesels into their everyday lives....and dont get my started on electric cars

 

[IH8Rice]

ooooo

Chrysler has restarted discussions with Cummins to continue development of an all-new light-duty diesel engine for Ram pickup trucks.

&#8220;We&#8217;re in discussions with Cummins,&#8221; said Joe Veltri, Chrysler vice president of product planning, at the 2010 NTEA Work Truck Show. &#8220;There&#8217;s no contract [with Cummins] but [a light-duty diesel] is in our plan.&#8221;

Chrysler&#8217;s light-duty diesel program -- rumored to be a 5.0-liter V-8 -- has a complex past. In January 2009, we were told the program was postponed until at least 2011. Then in June 2009, a light-duty diesel engine development and manufacturing contract with Cummins was voided as part of Chrysler's Chapter 11 bankruptcy restructuring.

Smaller displacement would mean better fuel economy in both light- and heavy-duty applications, Veltri said.

Chrysler would be unique in the full-size truck segment if it can deliver a light-duty diesel for its customers. GM, Ford and Toyota have indefinitely postponed development of similar programs, citing high engine costs and gasoline engine alternatives.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/03/chryler-and-cummins-restart-lightduty-diesel-discussions.html

 

[jimmydean]

ooooo

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/03/chryler-and-cummins-restart-lightduty-diesel-discussions.html

And I swore I read somewhere that Crysler lost the bid for Cummins to Toyota. Starting like 2012 or something.

<edit> Can't find it now, I must be full of ****.

 

[IH8Rice]

And I swore I read somewhere that Crysler lost the bid for Cummins to Toyota. Starting like 2012 or something.

<edit> Can't find it now, I must be full of ****.

there were rumors that Toyota would get the Cummins engine, but I believe they signed another contract with Ram (the new Dodge brand) again.
im trying to find the articles now........

edit: because of Chrysler's bankruptcy, their contract with Cummins was void:
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/06/light-duty-diesel-for-dodge-ram-1500-pickup-truck-killed.html

 

[IH8Rice]

Mahindra review:
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/08/taj-mahauler-we-drive-the-mahindra-diesel-pik-up.html

It was impossible to walk up to these Indian vehicles for the first time without thinking they have to have deficiencies and wanting to immediately start calling them out. Quality, design, power, driving feel &#8211; you name it and the concern exists. What we found was that parts of the trucks managed to only live up to our low expectations, but we also came away impressed -- no, stunned really -- by how well the trucks are setup in certain areas.

Overall, we&#8217;re impressed with Mahindra&#8217;s four-cylinder diesel pickup truck &#8211; much more so than before we drove it. The interior has glaring weaknesses but if this truck can live up to Global Vehicle&#8217;s marketing hype of up to 30 mpg, 1.3-tons of payload and 5,000 pounds of towing ability, Mahindra and Global Vehicles will have a pickup truck like no other to sell to U.S. truck buyers. They&#8217;ll effectively be competing in a segment of one and in cases where a heavy duty diesel is overkill for the application, we think they&#8217;ll be an excellent alternative to help out on a farm or construction site.

 

[IH8Rice]

According to Pawan Goenka, Mahindra's president for global automotive, vehicle testing that would provide EPA approval for the Indian automaker's upcoming diesel-powered, 30-mile-per-gallon pickup truck "is taking a bit longer than what we anticipated." That, it would seem, is an understatement.

Mahindra first announced an expected mid-2009 sale date for the truck, which was later revised to end-of-2009, then February of 2010 and then finally March of 2010. You'll notice that this Thursday the calendar turns the page to April, meaning Mahindra has missed yet another target date.

At this point, Mahindra does not yet have official approval from the EPA to sell its wares in the United States. The Indian automaker says it should take about a month for the paperwork to be completed (a timeframe not acknowledged by the EPA, naturally) and then dealers can finally place orders for the trucks. Considering that Mahindra's vehicles will ship from India, it's clear that there will still be some time before you'll be able to stroll down to you nearest dealer and drive off in a new oil-burning bundle of joy.

That fact is not lost on Mahindra's 300-plus dealers, some of whom have paid up to $200,000 in franchise fees and in some cases have been waiting for years to see their investment pay off. That said, nobody ever said that launching a completely new brand of vehicles in the U.S. was going to be easy, inexpensive or timely.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/29/report-mahindra-dealers-still-waiting-pickups-still-not-epa-ap/

another article:
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100329/RETAIL07/303299954/1400

 

[skatetokil]

Man, **** the government.

I just had to apply for an Indian tourist visa and they're worse than the EPA though. It was like applying for life insurance.

 

[IH8Rice]

finally some good news:

Indian automaker Mahindra & Mahindra has received official certification from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency that allows its compact diesel pickups to be sold in the U.S.

"The EPA just certified Mahindra," an EPA representative confirmed to PickupTrucks.com this morning. "It's for their diesel pickup for the 2011 model year."

Emissions certification was one of largest hurdles facing Mahindra and its American distributor, Global Vehicles USA. It became a point of contention between the two companies after numerous delays launching the truck in the U.S. Mahindra and GV USA are currently in litigation over the delays.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/08/breaking-mahindra-receives-epa-certification-to-sell-diesel-pickups-in-the-us.html

 

[MikeD]

You know, I am moving to India and thought I'd buy a Tata or a Mahindra. Then I read more about them and decided to stick with a Toyota. (Scored a Land Cruiser Prado...)

Apparently, they're fine vehicles...with sub-par fit/finish, but that's no biggie...IF you get one that runs. QC is supposedly really bad, bad enough that there are a lot of people with seemingly insurmountable transmission problems, even in the land where the car was born.

Why we can't get a diesel Hi-Lux in the US is beyond me.

 

[IH8Rice]

Apparently, they're fine vehicles...with sub-par fit/finish, but that's no biggie...IF you get one that runs. QC is supposedly really bad, bad enough that there are a lot of people with seemingly insurmountable transmission problems, even in the land where the car was born.

Why we can't get a diesel Hi-Lux in the US is beyond me.

i would think they would be smarter than that to bring a subpar vehicle into the US market where there are tons of sue-happy people ready to call their lawyers up at any chance to make a buck.

the Hilux is a great vehicle all around. there would be NO way Toyota would bring that to America and cannibalize all of the sales of the #1 mid-size pickup in the market.

 

[jimmydean]

Why we can't get a diesel Hi-Lux in the US is beyond me.

When I saw pictures of a 4 door T100 rolling a straight axle and inline 6 diesel in Australia years back, I was pissed. If only the wheel was on the correct side, I would try to get one.

 

[I.van]

It seems in OZ we have the opposite issue. All our pickups are midsize, with 4cyl TD being the most popular, but there are very few options for a larger truck.

The Diesel Hilux has a very sweet motor. I was super impressed with the power when I drove one. I was similarly impressed when I drove the Nissan 2.5 TD. Small capacity turbo diesels are great these days. Hopefully my next ute will be a Navara D40.

 

[stevew]

other countries always got the cool landcruiser variations....

 

[MikeD]

i would think they would be smarter than that to bring a subpar vehicle into the US market where there are tons of sue-happy people ready to call their lawyers up at any chance to make a buck.

the Hilux is a great vehicle all around. there would be NO way Toyota would bring that to America and cannibalize all of the sales of the #1 mid-size pickup in the market.

But, ****ty cars are an American tradition...

 

[IH8Rice]

Hopefully my next ute will be a Navara D40.

those are called Frontier over here

But, ****ty cars are an American tradition...

id gladly take a poorly built American car over a poorly built Indian car

 

[MikeD]

You're cruel to want to crush their dreams of selling ****ty cars so quickly...

 

[bizutch]

why would you want to tow 5000lbs with a mahindra? Touch the brakes and watch the load pass you by??

 

[Sandwich]

http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/l200/

this is what I want...

 

[I.van]

those are called Frontier over here

I'm guessing you guys don't get the 2.5L T/D model, just the 4L V6 Petrol?

this is what I want...

That one (called a Triton in OZ) won 4wd of the year in a local mag. Turbodiesel of course .

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/l200/

this is what I want...

i´ve driven a l200 for a while.

an client of my company (huge ass mining company) has about 200 of them (mitsubushi is one of their shareholders) working alongisde about 90 contractor-owned hilux for which we do service and repairs on site.
hilux > l200, but mitsubishi (shareholders) vetoes any toyota purchase.

we have 350+ other hilux rented at several mines, and a few have clients (other mining companies) who own more than 70 each. i know hiluxes like the palm of my hand.
for every 10 hilux we sell/rent, mitsubishi sells 1 l200. most are work trucks for mining companies who beat the **** out of trucks (literally). average life expectancy is about 60k miles or 2 years before they are too expensive to repair.

i have seem them working side by side and hilux > l200 by faaaaaaaaaaar

 

[IH8Rice]

I'm guessing you guys don't get the 2.5L T/D model, just the 4L V6 Petrol?

mid-size pickups with diesels are non existent stateside.
yes, the 4L is the Frontier's only engine option here, though they used to have the S/C version

 

[Mr Jones]

though they used to have the S/C version

that 3.3L SC was an abomination

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

mid-size pickups with diesels are non existent stateside.
yes, the 4L is the Frontier's only engine option here, though they used to have the S/C version

are there many common rail diesel powered trucks in the states?
how are they doing....

CR is VERY finnicky. the tolerances in the pump and the injectors are insanely small (0.002mm inside the injector) some dirt or water in the fuel, a little spec of dirt at 160Mpa shooting out the nozzle and then the tolerance get way off, you get hesitation and a noticeable power loss, and bye bye injectors and fuel pump ($4k in parts alone)...

 

[IH8Rice]

are there many common rail diesel powered trucks in the states?
how are they doing....

yes, the last gen Ford Powerstroke made by Navistar and their new in-house diesel are as well as Chevy's Isuzu made Duramax are (IIRC.) they are only available in full size 3/4 and 1ton trucks.
the only one that isnt is the Cummins w/ Dodge

there are some SUV's like the Jeep and MB that use the CRD engines too.

 

[gsweet]

i´ve driven a l200 for a while.

an client of my company (huge ass mining company) has about 200 of them (mitsubushi is one of their shareholders) working alongisde about 90 contractor-owned hilux for which we do service and repairs on site.
hilux > l200, but mitsubishi (shareholders) vetoes any toyota purchase.

we have 350+ other hilux rented at several mines, and a few have clients (other mining companies) who own more than 70 each. i know hiluxes like the palm of my hand.
for every 10 hilux we sell/rent, mitsubishi sells 1 l200. most are work trucks for mining companies who beat the **** out of trucks (literally). average life expectancy is about 60k miles or 2 years before they are too expensive to repair.

i have seem them working side by side and hilux > l200 by faaaaaaaaaaar

And what mining company, may I ask? I (and my company) just signed a joint venture with a major Chilean copper producer for our deposit up here in MN...

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

And what mining company, may I ask? I (and my company) just signed a joint venture with a major Chilean copper producer for our deposit up here in MN...

its antamina. owned by bhp, xstrata, mitsubishi and teck.

 

[gsweet]

its antamina. owned by bhp, xstrata, mitsubishi and teck.

oh, right on; i have worked a little with xstrata and teck. at the moment, we (my company) just penned a joint venture with antofagasta...i have really been meaning to make my way down to your area though; porphyry Cu-Au-Mo systems are kind of my focus (academically speaking)

 

[jimmydean]

yes, the last gen Ford Powerstroke made by Navistar and their new in-house diesel are as well as Chevy's Isuzu made Duramax are (IIRC.) they are only available in full size 3/4 and 1ton trucks.
the only one that isnt is the Cummins w/ Dodge

there are some SUV's like the Jeep and MB that use the CRD engines too.

The newer Cummins are common rail, just not the 24v and earlier.

 

[IH8Rice]

lolzzzz

Mahindra's relationship with Global Vehicles Inc (GV) has ended, the agreement dated 26th September 2006 between Mahindra and GV having terminated.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/08/28/report-mahindra-says-it-has-terminated-u-s-dealer-agreement/
http://www.mahindrausa.com/news.php?nID=143

 

[IH8Rice]

the Mahindra will never come stateside

India-based automaker Mahindra is taking unfair advantage of an escape clause in its contract with U.S. distributor Global Vehicles USA to terminate its relationship, GV USA CEO John Perez said.

Perez says Mahindra is attempting to claim exclusive ownership of the distribution and sales channel ahead of the arrival of its small diesel pickup in the United States, a development that has been expected for the last 18 months.

Mahindra&#8217;s clean-diesel pickups were expected to go on sale in the U.S. by the first quarter of 2009 but their arrival has been pushed back four times; the latest on-sale date is reportedly this December.

The original delays were technical problems with getting the trucks ready to meet U.S. standards, Perez said, but he blamed the last few delays on Mahindra, saying the automaker is trying to bully GV USA into stepping aside and letting Mahindra exclusively run the U.S. pickup truck distribution.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/09/global-vehicles-usa-says-mahindra-delayed-truck-certification-to-void-contract.html

 

[FlyinPolack]

That P.O.S. is not a truck....
C'mon now...

 

[IH8Rice]

the balls in Minhindra's court

To show their commitment to the sale of Mahindra pickups, Global Vehicles plans to place a $35 million-plus factory order today for U.S.-spec Mahindra TR20 and TR40 pickup trucks to begin the launch of the brand in the United States. The order's designed to do one of two things — if it's accepted, Global Vehicles says it means that Global Vehicles is still the exclusive importer. If it's not accepted, Global Vehicles claims it means that Mahindra may not be bargaining in good faith — and somehow (we're not sure yet exactly how) — it will show that Mahindra killed the contract illegally.

http://jalopnik.com/5646839/global-vehicles-bitch+slaps-mahindra-with-a-35-million-pickup-truck-order

 

[jimmydean]

Woohoo!

Spring 2011

Mahindra has applied for and received their EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) certificate, which means the vehicles have passed emission requirements. They also filed with (NHTSA) National Highway Safety Administration, which handles US standards for safety.

 

[IH8Rice]

i got that email today from the CEO of GV too, but if Mahindra wont ship them, i wont expect them in the Spring.
Mahindra already turned down GV's order back in September.

Mumbai, September 27, 2010
Mahindra announced that it had received and was rejecting an invalid order for pick-up trucks from former distributor Global Vehicles USA, Inc. Mahindra views this order as another example of Global Vehicles' policy of engaging in PR theatrics while pursuing an unnecessary lawsuit. This is Global Vehicles' continued attempt to manipulate the press to damage Mahindra's reputation. Mahindra also believes that this is an attempt by Global Vehicles to distract Mahindra from pursuing other plans to bring its vehicle to the US market.

As stated in Mahindra's September 24 statement, the contract with Global Vehicles has expired. In light of this fact, Mahindra will be contacting U.S. dealers to make other arrangements for
distribution. Mr. P N Shah, Chief Executive, International division, Automotive & Farm Equipment sector said, "Mahindra's goal remains to bring its vehicles to the US market, satisfying the desires of US consumers and dealers alike."

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/09/28/mahindra-brushes-back-global-vehicles-rejects-any-attempt-to-o/

 

[jimmydean]

They say Spring, so they are getting them here somehow. Maybe old Saturn dealers?

 

[IH8Rice]

They say Spring, so they are getting them here somehow. Maybe old Saturn dealers?

until Mahindra actually says Spring, GV can say whatever they want.

 

[bizutch]

Note to manufacturer. If it's a diesel, it can haul more. Please add a foot or two to the bed on the 4 door. That is all.