I'd like to see a shock rate chart with these 2, Bullit, Heckler, & Nomad.
New Santa Cruz Bikes
- Thread starter MDJ
- Start date
The hammerschmidt effect, It seems everyone is including them to be umm.... "schmidt-able"
Yeah, you don't get the cost of hype?
Like someone else said, it'll come down to geometry, geometry, oh and the geometry better be good.
Just too bad they have be made in Taiwan to hit hose price points. Another one joins the masses.
One big thing is that each pivot location between the front end and the axle affects frame alignment. This is especially true for something with short links that move over large angles. VPP also can sometimes bind in the links if it is even slightly off.
I'm sure there's a lot more, but that is definitely part of it.
Bikes look good! It would be awesome if they sold another version of the Nickel with a slightly shorter shock! Low 13" BB with 67 HA would make me drop the cash immediately.
Giant's factorys in Taiwan have been building SC frames for a couple years now. V-10 is still made here.
They could make it in a Taiwanese Lunatic asylum at arts and crafts time for all I care. Long as its made RIGHT, I don't care where its done.
This "buy local" BS doesnt' work anymore when the guys making it overseas are doing it cheaper, AND just as good or better.
Exactly. A +50% premium for one extra link and a mighty increase in maintenance is taking the p*ss.
Having said that, the Nickel is one sweet looking bike. Why no ISCG05 though? I'll be looking hard at one to replace the Meta.
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Maybe you could slightly shorten the shock on the Butcher? The frame weights don't appear to be much different.
the extra 50% extra you don't pay for is santa's vpp marketing bs
Yeah and Giant's mini-link framesets cost less than these single pivot frames with the same options.
Anthem X with headset and Float RP23 - $1250
Giant Reign X with headset and DHX 5 Air - $1450
In Europe Reign X is for 1450 EUR 
And these new frames will be for at least 1350 EUR
And these new frames will be for at least 1350 EUR
I wonder how that frame design would accomodate carbon?
Enough of this armchair BS; let's discuss something else.
Am I the only one who still can't over the fact that Cedric looks really weird riding an SC? Cool, but taking a while to get used to seeing...
Am I the only one who still can't over the fact that Cedric looks really weird riding an SC? Cool, but taking a while to get used to seeing...
and more importantly, what is he doing with his front wheel??
supersweet bar turn. probably the #1 most performed mtb trick in the known world.
on a downhill slope? wow
trying to get the most grip out of his sh|t signature Panaracer tyers
yes.
or he might be in the process of pulling a 180 and riding down the rest of the slope fakie?
He's drifting the back end. See the rocks being kicked sideways by his tire?
Seems like a lot of people have been drinking Haterade lately. I enjoy seeing new products from companies and 99% of the time they help the sport grow. Nothing wrong with 2 more frame options.
how come no one makes a trail bike with 5~6 inches of travel and 63-65 degree head angle? i think that'd be the best thing for people to get into the world of dh but dont want a downhill bike to begin with
front end stability without the need of dc fork and pretty much a dh oriented all around bike
front end stability without the need of dc fork and pretty much a dh oriented all around bike
Because they would ride like a mule.
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offset headtube cups and you are sorted but for begginers 65-66 is really better than 63-65 as at the begining you don't need crazy stability anyway. Just get a pitch, spitfire or something along the lines.
I woke this morning dreaming I was riding a red Nickel, Pikes and a bb mounted Gamut.
It must be fate - my first full suspension bike was a mark 1 SC Heckler.
RRP in NZ is expected to be $2500 for the Nickel. Available in June/July.
It must be fate - my first full suspension bike was a mark 1 SC Heckler.
RRP in NZ is expected to be $2500 for the Nickel. Available in June/July.
I see your point, I would much rather spend my money to help keep unemployment rates down and increase the GNP of a country other than my own and in the mean time help to rid this country of any of the skilled labor required to make said product just as good or better, or any other product for that matter, but be sure to support your LBS since all that will be left will be service jobs.
Don't get me wrong I'm well aware of the quality that comes from Taiwan and that most brands have been made there for a long time now. Hydroforming was not invented there but they seem to be the leaders in that technology for the bike industry. I am also aware that alot of the frames are produced by Giant. I try to buy what I can from North America when it makes sense. I have Taiwaines, Canadian and U.S. made bikes all of somewhat equal quality I just feel better thinking that I might be helping a blue collar workers job stay here by buying what I can instead of feeding the never rising tide of outsourcing.
Seems I have seen alot more complaints about Rockshox and Marzocchi on here than Fox. I think I'll wait a few more years before considering one of those brands.
Looks pretty cool, but I hope they don't dump the Heckler before I can snatch one.
In reference to another post here, I also thought the shock rate of vpp was a downside
While you don't want to blow through travel, ramp up at the end of the travel isn't necessarily good.
I don't really see the benefit of this bike on paper like SC does. Still has brake jack and still has a forward axle path (as opposed to vpp). I'll take the Heckler and lose the extra links and bearings over these I think.
I guess we'll have to wait to see how it rides though, to be sure.
In reference to another post here, I also thought the shock rate of vpp was a downside
While you don't want to blow through travel, ramp up at the end of the travel isn't necessarily good.I don't really see the benefit of this bike on paper like SC does. Still has brake jack and still has a forward axle path (as opposed to vpp). I'll take the Heckler and lose the extra links and bearings over these I think.
I guess we'll have to wait to see how it rides though, to be sure.
If the only thing that's keeping the US economy competitive with the rest of the world is our sheer patriotism, the US is screwed anyways.
At that point they would be "slopestyle/mini DH bikes" not trail bikes.
Have you climbed with anything slacker than a 65deg. head angle?
It's really not so much fun. To me, my trail bike has to be able to get me to the top in order to be able to blast the downhills in the trail. Further more, if someone is going to market a bike as a "trail" or "all-mountain" bike, people will expect it to climb well. A slack head angle on climbs is quite awkward and the wheel loves to flop. In addition not everyone wants to have to flip a lever to raise there seat and twist a knob to lower their fork everytime a hill arises(poor pun intended). Finding a happy medium, that allows me to hop on, pedal to the top and blast down without worry appeals to me. Less is more, and I want more; more fun, more time on my bike, and more stories about how much fun it is to ride a bike.
Maybe I'm the only one that doesn't want to make my trail bike into a short travel bike wishing it were downhill bike.
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nice to not know you
Awwww. Yer gonna hurt my feelings.
I was worried about your post until this part.
Ride the bikes and then form an opinion. If you like single pivots these bikes are pretty killer. The extra bearings and links don't add much in terms of cost, weight, or complexity but they do have a significant impact on the ride - for the better, in my opinion (and I've owned - and loved - two different generations of hecklers).And FWIW, the VPP shock rates are not a negative result or a compromise as suggested in this thread. It's an intentional result after years of making bikes. Some people like it and some don't (go figure!), but SC likes it enough to replicate it with the new APP bikes.
Just my two (somewhat biased) pennies.
You have one of the new APP bikes already?I was worried about your post until this part.
And FWIW, the VPP shock rates are not a negative result or a compromise as suggested in this thread. It's an intentional result after years of making bikes. Some people like it and some don't (go figure!), but SC likes it enough to replicate it with the new APP bikes.
Just my two (somewhat biased) pennies.
I don't own one but I've been able to get out on a few solid rides on them.
Cool. Aside from it being an improvement, does it actually do what they say it does, feel like a VPP (not wheel path obviously)? Or is it more of a standard progressive linkage? It does look like it would be a fun bike.