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New Trek Session 88 DH and FR version

robz

Chimp
May 18, 2004
36
0
Scotland
I didn't say the Iron Horse was bad - I love my 6point but having the two side by side, the Session pedals better.

I'm not going to argue with you about it. I was asked for my opinion and I gave it.

Whether or not you choose to believe me, I could care less.
 

ED75

Monkey
Dec 3, 2003
174
2
France
Whether or not you choose to believe me, I could care less.
:poster_oops:
What's the English expression for "Ne prends pas la mouche" ???
In other words, I certainly did not want to hurt you, but this comparison sounds so extreme, I feel legit saying it's hard to believe, nothing else !
 

robz

Chimp
May 18, 2004
36
0
Scotland
Fair enough.

I know I said I wasn't going to argue but I will anyway...

My 6point has light tyres pumped up quite hard on pretty light wheels and the Trek is a DH bike with 2.5" sticky rubber running pretty soft with heavy ass tubes and it still felt super quick to accelerate and very very easy to pedal.

I just said it pedaled noticeably better, not amazingly or significantly, just noticeably. i.e even with heavier stickier tyres I felt it was a wee bit better - its not that extreme a statement.
 

ED75

Monkey
Dec 3, 2003
174
2
France
Fair enough.
I know I said I wasn't going to argue but I will anyway...
:blah::cheers:
My 6point has light tyres pumped up quite hard on pretty light wheels and the Trek is a DH bike with 2.5" sticky rubber running pretty soft with heavy ass tubes and it still felt super quick to accelerate and very very easy to pedal.
OK fine ! I love to read this !
I just said it pedaled noticeably better, not amazingly or significantly, just noticeably. i.e even with heavier stickier tyres I felt it was a wee bit better - its not that extreme a statement.
I was not exactly talking about an extreme statement, more an extreme comparison between those 2 bikes ! But OK !
In no way I could compare my DHR and my Nomad, I suppose a Nomad can't either compare to a 6point, and a DHR to the marvelous Session ! :D
Peace !
Anyway, thanks for your review, I was asking for it on the previous page !
 

chuckie

Monkey
Jul 2, 2007
113
0
Robz at 5'10 would you say the medium size frame is perfect?

does the frame lool like it could handle a nasty off or two?
 

robz

Chimp
May 18, 2004
36
0
Scotland
The medium feels perfect for me - I wouldnt want a bigger bike

The frame tubing does appear to be quite thin but it does have a three year warranty so I am sure its robust.

I have covered my frame in clear protective tape anyway just to prevent dings from day to day use - especially the underside of the downtube.
 

A.P

Monkey
Nov 21, 2005
423
0
boston
The medium feels perfect for me - I wouldnt want a bigger bike

The frame tubing does appear to be quite thin but it does have a three year warranty so I am sure its robust.

I have covered my frame in clear protective tape anyway just to prevent dings from day to day use - especially the underside of the downtube.

You can press your thumb into the metal in spots on the downtube and see the tubing move. Its funny that the 13lb session 10's were cracking all over the place, I can only imagine what a frame designed by the same people, but with 5lbs less metal and a higher leverage ratio will do.

At a race last weekend a guy I know showed up with a brand new Session88.. Midway through a practice run he slid out and clipped the downtube/bb area on a small tree/log and put a half inch deep dent that looks like it was smashed with a hammer and chisel. Keep in mind this was wood he was hitting, not a rock. F-that.
 

General Lee

Turbo Monkey
Oct 16, 2003
2,860
0
The 802
At a race last weekend a guy I know showed up with a brand new Session88.. Midway through a practice run he slid out and clipped the downtube/bb area on a small tree/log and put a half inch deep dent that looks like it was smashed with a hammer and chisel. Keep in mind this was wood he was hitting, not a rock. F-that.
since the gate of my pickup truck did the same thing to both mine and my brother's Sundays while driving on the highway i wouldn't get overly concerned. Sundays had/have exceptionally thin downtubes in places and you don't see to many of them failing even after 4+ years. as Weagle told me "Good thing the only time that tube is really under stress is when you hit it on something."

Likewise, Dave put a rock completely through the rather thick downtube of his 224 a few years ago and i still see that frame at races today.
 

klunky

Turbo Monkey
Oct 17, 2003
1,078
6
Scotland
Yeah I thought your review was weird Fraser. The bike I tested in June was the same as "production" geometry. The Totem is a long fork is it not - longer than a boxxer?
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
Yeah I thought your review was weird Fraser. The bike I tested in June was the same as "production" geometry. The Totem is a long fork is it not - longer than a boxxer?
Well, we weren't told if it was production or not. Seems weird to have pre production bikes at dirt demo, but I digress. The one in the stand looked slacker than the ones we tested. Vitox had the bike I shot for photos, the one in the stand was same spec, but noticeably slacker.

I'm not sure about the totem. It was setup all wrong so i tried to block it out of my mind and get on with trying out the frame and paying attention to the rear end and other attributes. I wonder if the "FR" and "DH" versions have different frame geometries, or did at one point? I'm gonna call my guy at trek now and find out.
 

William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
3,926
671
i'll ask my trek rep, maybe the DH/FR have two different frames and the guys building them don't know how to spot the differences.

Could make getting your bike a bit problematic since you know what build it'll have, but not what geo (if thats true)

Wonder what the deal is
 

klunky

Turbo Monkey
Oct 17, 2003
1,078
6
Scotland
The frames are the same. The FR only has different geometry due to the forks A-C between the fox and the totem.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
Ok, so I spoke to the brand manager for MTBs over at Trek. He says the issues we had can be attributed largely to the fork that was installed on it, as well as the spring rates that were involved. We were on pre-production bikes, but they were not any different than production ones.

Apparently the stock bikes with come with different spring rates, allowing them to sag a bit more into the travel in the rear. (It DID feel like it was riding high in the travel.... the same sort of feeling that robz tried to explain.) I was told that they are extremely proud of the geometries they have settled on, as they have gone through many iterations over the last year or so before they finally felt they nailed it.
 

ED75

Monkey
Dec 3, 2003
174
2
France
The medium feels perfect for me - I wouldnt want a bigger bike
Since I'm 5.9, I think I should be ok on a Med too, but as you're the only person I know owning this frame, could you please do me a favour and measure the distance between center BB and center HT (vert/horiz)
Thanks ! :thumb:
I have covered my frame in clear protective tape anyway just to prevent dings from day to day use - especially the underside of the downtube.
Even if it's a thick one it looks sketchy to me, I'll probably go with a slim plate of pre-formed carbon fiber either ! (next to the BB on the downtube I mean)
 
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ED75

Monkey
Dec 3, 2003
174
2
France
Yeah I thought your review was weird Fraser. The bike I tested in June was the same as "production" geometry. The Totem is a long fork is it not - longer than a boxxer?
Fox 40 = 571 mms
Totem = 565 mms
Boxxer = 570 ms
 

ED75

Monkey
Dec 3, 2003
174
2
France

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
If your numbers are true it seemes strange that Fraser felt a differance as the HA differance would be like 0.3 degree between Fox and Totem.

http://lunik.muha.cc/geometryCalc/
As I mentioned, I didn't have the measurements at the time between the 2 forks. Trek assures me they will? If these ARE correct, they won't make a huge difference, although a half degree is noticeable.

Edit: I NEVER said I felt anything. I only rode the bike with a totem. I suggested that the fork may be the issue/solution. You guys need to go back and read the review again.
 
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ED75

Monkey
Dec 3, 2003
174
2
France
Around 5'8-5'10 between the 2 of them. Medium should be their frame sizes (and are under other bikes). I was on a small at 5'5" (my normal frame size as well).
Thanks !
I'm 5'9" and considering the Med ... actually running a DHR, just have to get this new measure from Robiiiiiiiiiiiiin ...
 
Nov 4, 2007
48
0
Bay Area
RobZ's bike shows the fork clamped higher in the stanchions, with barely any excess stanchion above the top clamp. The bike in the picture from transcend shows what looks to be a 15mm or more of exposed stanchion so perhaps this also has something to do with it?
 

robz

Chimp
May 18, 2004
36
0
Scotland
I can certainly measure the bike for you but I wont be able to do it until tomorrow evening.

I don't keep the bike at my house.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,369
1,605
Warsaw :/
As I mentioned, I didn't have the measurements at the time between the 2 forks. Trek assures me they will? If these ARE correct, they won't make a huge difference, although a half degree is noticeable.

Edit: I NEVER said I felt anything. I only rode the bike with a totem. I suggested that the fork may be the issue/solution. You guys need to go back and read the review again.
We never said you felt what we claim. There is only the differance of opinions on the same bike with different forks plus trek employee suggested that it might been a fork. Ppl are just wondering if it's not that good and gets mixed results or your bike had sth weird with it. I'm not suprised with a 3.5k frame ;)

Well I'm not that interested. I just like puzzles as 3.5k for a trek with a lot of marketing in it but nothing really revolutionary is crazy. I'd rather get any other frame and pimp it out for the price differance ;)
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,369
1,605
Warsaw :/
Err, you did in the post I quoted? I just wanted to be clear that i didn't feel anything. That's all. :think:
Yea, Sry. A bit of an overstatement. I meant that the if what trek guys said is true your review shouldn't be so different to some others here. Actualy WE spoted the differance in your reviews ;)

BTW. If you didn't feel anything the bike mush be pluuuuush ;)
 

robz

Chimp
May 18, 2004
36
0
Scotland
ell I'm not that interested. I just like puzzles as 3.5k for a trek with a lot of marketing in it but nothing really revolutionary is crazy. I'd rather get any other frame and pimp it out for the price differance
Strange, I bought it because I thought it represented very good value for money. I couldnt build a bike with similar spec for anything near the £3500 I paid for it, and I did try.

I worked in a Trek dealer for a long time and have faith in the brand, much more so than certain niche brands.
 
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JCL

Monkey
Aug 31, 2008
696
0
Rob I'd also like the BB - Headtube measurement when you get a chance.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,369
1,605
Warsaw :/
Strange, I bought it because I thought it represented very good value for money. I couldnt build a bike with similar spec for anything near the £3500 I paid for it, and I did try.

I worked in a Trek dealer for a long time and have faith in the brand, much more so than certain niche brands.
Well i was talking not about the uk bike price but the us frame price! Its actualy not 3.5 but 3.2k but still it's friggin a lot for a big company frame. You can get most frames with CCDB for that price.

For some reason session 88 is cheaper in uk than most bikes form what I see but you could still order from the mainland and get a 09 Lapierre. Spec is even better and the frame looks even more like tits ;) (Their uk prices are a bit nuts but compared to other markets price ratios between different companies are very different in UK dunno why)
 

ED75

Monkey
Dec 3, 2003
174
2
France
I can certainly measure the bike for you but I wont be able to do it until tomorrow evening.

I don't keep the bike at my house.
OK thanks a lot, waiting for you !
And then, what length are the Saint Cranks on the Med then on the Small ?