[valve bouncer]

Gonna make sure the kid's passports are up to date.

 

[zahgurim]

Sort of weird how they said it was tested, yet there was no seismic activity or radiation detected here.

Think it's all a bunch of hot air? He's known for that...
Or maybe it was tested, and failed. He's known for that too.

 

[zahgurim]

Hmmm...looks like it happened. Seismic activity wasn't detected by the US, but both South Korea and Japanese instruments went off...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15190745/?GT1=8618


Looks like things will get interesting over here.

 

[DaveW]

guess Iran can breathe a sigh of relief for a lil while then........

 

[SprungShoulders]

Hmmm...looks like it happened. Seismic activity wasn't detected by the US, but both South Korea and Japanese instruments went off...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15190745/?GT1=8618


Looks like things will get interesting over here.

USGS detected a 4.2 magnitude quake at 0135 GMT Monday. Pentagon isn't confirming, however.

Yahoo News N. Korea Nuke Test

Surprisingly, however, China issued a strongly-worded statement of disapproval, which is almost unheard of in context of the relationship the two countries have. I guess you can turn a blind eye to "homegrown" fanaticism only up to a certain point.

 

[blue]

USGS detected a 4.2 magnitude quake at 0135 GMT Monday. Pentagon isn't confirming, however.

Yahoo News N. Korea Nuke Test

Surprisingly, however, China issued a strongly-worded statement of disapproval, which is almost unheard of in context of the relationship the two countries have. I guess you can turn a blind eye to "homegrown" fanaticism only up to a certain point.

Pyongyang gets nuked=China fvcked.

How far do you think a bunch of N. Korean soldiers in the DMZ can throw a nuke? What with the rockets and all not working...

 

[johnbryanpeters]

NKPA can make a big-time mess out of Seoul in short order and in reality we can't do squat about it, especially inasmuch as dubya et al have squandered our resources elsewhere.

 

[stevew]

Jimmy Carter's Nobel Peace Prize at work.

 

[Westy]

I don't see the big deal really. We knew they had a number of nukular (VB, please take note of proper pronunciation) and they just wasted one in testing. They might be able to make better weapons from the resulting test but can we make much distinction between a good nuke and a bad one?

 

[ATOMICFIREBALL]

TapoDONG missle !! lol

 

[valve bouncer]

I don't see the big deal really. We knew they had a number of nukular (VB, please take note of proper pronunciation) and they just wasted one in testing. They might be able to make better weapons from the resulting test but can we make much distinction between a good nuke and a bad one?

Nukular...that's it, was trying to remember.
They haven't got anywy to deliver their bomb yet, too big for their missiles. Only leaves them with the option of putting it into a boat and blowing it up somewhere, probably here.

 

[H8R]

Meanwhile, in Bizarro World....


http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/10/09/international/i075838D53.DTL

 

[$tinkle]

Gonna make sure the kid's passports are up to date.

elaborate: what's the mood like over there? are you not the more threatened than SK by this (b/c so many US troops are along the DMZ)?

 

[Changleen]

Meanwhile, in Bizarro World....


http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/10/09/international/i075838D53.DTL

While many council members said the test would be a threat to international peace and security, Pak claimed just the opposite.

"The nuclear test in the DPRK will greatly contribute in increasing the world deterrence of the DPRK" and will contribute "to the maintenance and guarantee of peace and security in the peninsula and the region," he said.

For once I hope our boy Pak is right. Actually he probably is. This incident, more than anything else that has happened recently has aligned everyone against DPRK. They are more isolated now than ever. World opinion is firmly on the side of the west.

I wonder how Bush will manage to fvck it up this time?

 

[DRB]

I wonder how Bush will manage to fvck it up this time?

China and Russia will come to their senses and it will be back to the good 'ole game of Iranian black / white.

 

[golgiaparatus]

You know, this test is surely represents a middle finger fully extended towards bush... but we are not the country that is in range of that idiots missiles. They'll probably have to deal with a lot more than just dubyas paranoia now. China, Japan, SK, Russia... all those countries are pretty freaked right now I'm sure.

And you dont want to joke with russia with a claim to a few kilitons... they laugh at that sh!t: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Bomba

 

[Westy]

Where is Dr. Strangelove when you need him?

 

[Old Man G Funk]

Where is Dr. Strangelove when you need him?

Yeah, we don't want to have a bunker gap.

 

[H8R]

Where is Dr. Strangelove when you need him?

Fvck that, where is Brig. Gen. Jack D. Ripper when you need him.

 

[manimal]

"i'm so ronry..."

 

[Changleen]

http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2006/10/09/the_north_korean_test/

The North Korean test

October 9, 2006

NORTH KOREA'S announcement of a nuclear test raises the specter of a nuclear arms race in Asia. Yesterday's explosion may also set off a sequence of events that changes radically the balance of power in Asia and weakens current constraints against the spread of nuclear weapons around the world. The test also represents the most preventable, and one of the most damaging, failures of President Bush's foreign policy. The administration has stubbornly rebuffed the North's offers to cede its nuclear and missile programs in exchange for economic and security benefits in direct, two-party negotiations.

Unlike Iran, North Korea has repeatedly declared that it is willing to divest itself of its nuclear weapons capabilities for the right price. That price would include a guaranteed provision of energy -- which might or might not include light-water reactors ill-suited for a weapons program -- and also economic aid and security assurances that would end what the North calls the relations of ''enmity'' between it and the United States. Acting on the unrealistic assumption that he need not and should not stoop to bargaining with "evil" regimes such as those in Pyongyang and Tehran, Bush has allowed hardliners in his administration repeatedly to prevent or sabotage genuine negotiations with the North. For their part, North Korean representatives have made it plain that they will respond to rebuffs from hardliners -- be they in Tokyo or Washington -- with missile launches, or with the extraction of plutonium from nuclear fuel rods, or now with an underground nuclear explosion.

If this cycle of thwarted negotiation and North Korean riposte is allowed to continue much longer, Asia's ultimate nightmare may be realized. Japan's new nationalist government could seize its chance to set the wheels in motion not only for a revision of the country's pacifist postwar constitution, but also for the development of a nuclear deterrent. This development would be unnerving for both China and South Korea. Beijing would see its worst fears about a remilitarized Japan realized, and would almost certainly opt to modernize its own nuclear arsenal and accelerate its conventional military buildup. South Korea and even Taiwan could eventually be pushed in the direction of developing their own nuclear deterrents.

Instead of pursuing yet more harsh and futile sanctions on North Korea in the UN Security Council, as the US ambassador to the UN John Bolton was doing yesterday, Bush ought to reconsider the wisdom of his refusal to test the seriousness of North Korea's repeated offers to trade away its nuclear and missile programs for the end-of-enmity agreement that only Washington can provide.

Indeed.

 

[DRB]

http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2006/10/09/the_north_korean_test/

Indeed.

Seriously do you really believe that?

 

[Changleen]

Balance in Asia will change most likely when Japan weapons up. Check.

Bush should have talked to them. Check. - http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/10/10/america/NA_GEN_US_James_Baker_Iraq.php

Baker also questioned the administration's policy of not talking to Iran or Syria, whom the United States has accused of helping terrorism.

"I don't think you restrict your conversations to your friends," said Baker, who noted he had made 15 trips to Damascus as secretary of state.

"It's got to be hard-nosed," Baker said. "It's got to be determined. You don't give away anything, but in my view it is not appeasement to talk to your enemies."

Looks like even the repubs are starting to agree with me.

 

[blue]

Ten bucks China invades NK in the next ten years.

 

[Transcend]

According to some sources now, it may have not been a full blown nuclear device. Should be interesting to see how this pans out over the next few days as the raw data from the area is analyzed.

If the device was a dud that is one thing, but if Kim Jong Il is simply posturing and tried to replicate the blast from a Nuclear device, it could get interesting.

Especially when it is pretty common knowledge that splitting atoms creates a fairly unique seismographic reading. How far could they be along if they didn't even have this sorted out??

Of course, they may just have a really small bomb. Just like their leader.

 

[blue]

According to some sources now, it may have not been a full blown nuclear device. Should be interesting to see how this pans out over the next few days as the raw data from the area is analyzed.

Baha, I just read that...Kim Jong threw a bunch of TNT in a hole...

 

[DaveW]

And North Koreas reply to the rest of the planets outrage?.....

Kim's message: War is coming to US soil
By Kim Myong Chol
("Unofficial" spokesman of Kim Jong-il and North Korea.)

Unlike all the previous wars Korea fought, a next war will be better called the American War or the DPRK-US War because the main theater will be the continental US, with major cities transformed into towering infernos. The DPRK is now the fourth-most powerful nuclear weapons state just after the US, Russia, and China.

 

[Changleen]

Ten bucks China invades NK in the next ten years.

Ooooh interesting.

 

[DaveW]

Ooooh interesting.

Nope, China want's and needs NK as a buffer to South Korea and it's version of capitalisim/democracy.
Also war would unleash an even larger flood of refugees heading northward into China. And China has already demonstrated intolerance towards Korean refugees, they sure as hell don't want more of them.

 

[Changleen]

Yeah, you're probably right. Plus now I think about it China has been pretty good about it's whole 'non-expansionist' policy, except for noises about what it considers to belong to it already.

 

[valve bouncer]

Trade between China and Japan is growing at a phenomenal rate and is largely responsible for Japan's gradual emergence from recession. The Chinese will do anything to prevent a war as they stand to lose the most, hence the strong language the Chinese used towards NK. Look to see the Japanese and Chinese mending fences over the next few months in an attempt to isolate NK.

 

[Changleen]

Yep. Already happening eh?

 

[valve bouncer]

Yep. Already happening eh?

Within days of taking over Abe was on a plane overseas and it was significant that his first trip was to Seoul not Washington. He's a right winger (grandpappy was a war time minister) but he's treading carefully on issues concerning the war. Japanese are sh*t scared of NK, not surprising considering they are the ones most likely to get a nuke up the khyber if Kim goes completely doolally.

 

[Changleen]

I find it hard to believe they are actually scared.

"Acutely aware" maybe?

He can't seriously deploy sh1t, if that even was a real nuke. I think he probably does. I'd say that's 4/1 on him having a nuke right now. The doubt comes from remembering the dude loves Holywood movies'n sh1t...

Oooooh maybe it's a double bluff. He really does have a nuke, but what happened was he took months setting up a huge conventional bomb, set it off, and is right now just waiting for the world's intelligence agencies to discover the fraud and for the US (actually thinking 'ahhhhh, they have no bomb!') to use it as pretext for hostilities, then responding with a real nuke! Sucker! Kinda like 'Suicide Regeimes'. Next step up from suicide bombers.

 

[DRB]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15175633/site/newsweek/

China is a hot-button subject in Pyongyang. All of the seven officials I met, including Foreign Minister Paik Nam Soon and Vice President Kim Yong Dae, changed the subject when I asked about trade and investment relations with China or Beijing's pressure not to conduct a nuclear test. Significantly, however, several of them, speaking off the record, pointed to North Korea's "strategic geopolitical location" and emphasized that Pyongyang wanted close ties with the United States, a faraway power, to offset pressures from its neighbors. "It would be good for the United States," one of them said, "to have us as a neutral buffer state in this dangerous area. Who knows, perhaps there are ways in which the United States could benefit from our ports and our intelligence if we become friends."

I found this interesting. Its odd because this mirrors to some extent the way Vietnam played the Chinese against the Soviet Union.

The rest of the article talks about how this is just NK's version of negotiation.

 

[Changleen]

As we know from History 101 Asia is a 4000yr old chess game. What has really changed?

 

[manimal]

And North Koreas reply to the rest of the planets outrage?.....

Kim's message: War is coming to US soil
By Kim Myong Chol
("Unofficial" spokesman of Kim Jong-il and North Korea.)

bring it b1tches!

 

[Changleen]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15175633/site/newsweek/



I found this interesting. Its odd because this mirrors to some extent the way Vietnam played the Chinese against the Soviet Union.

The rest of the article talks about how this is just NK's version of negotiation.

Uh DRB, the beginning:

Oct. 16, 2006 issue - On Sept. 19, 2005, North Korea signed a widely heralded denuclearization agreement with the United States, China, Russia, Japan and South Korea. Pyongyang pledged to "abandon all nuclear weapons and existing nuclear programs." In return, Washington agreed that the United States and North Korea would "respect each other's sovereignty, exist peacefully together and take steps to normalize their relations."

Four days later, the U.S. Treasury Department imposed sweeping financial sanctions against North Korea designed to cut off the country's access to the international banking system, branding it a "criminal state" guilty of counterfeiting, money laundering and trafficking in weapons of mass destruction.

The Bush administration says that this sequence of events was a coincidence.

The Bush admin is officially utterly retarded. Who is in charge of this multi-car pile up? Why do they lack the most basic intelligence?

 

[DRB]

Uh DRB, the beginning:

That's old news. The discussion about China is not old. If you were to look for a reason to believe the North Koreans and their willingness to negotiate that is certainly a logical reason for having better relations with the US.

Additionally, the whole US threat to North Korea has always rung hollow. So the necessity of nuclear weapons and them making a huge public noise about it just hasn't made a huge amount of sense to me. I can see Iran looking to develop them for deterence.

And as y'all are quick to point out that US foreign policy seems to be completely centered around the Carter Doctrine and other economic concerns and nothing else, North Korea certainly . Using that has a starting point, there is aboslutely no reason for the US to be looking to invade North Korea, especially in light of how thin the US military is right now.

So maybe, just maybe, the US isn't who North Korea is really worried about. Why bi-lateral talks with the US only? China supposedly been the power that is looking out for NK's best interests. Why wouldn't you want them at the table?

 

[Old Man G Funk]

Additionally, the whole US threat to North Korea has always rung hollow. So the necessity of nuclear weapons and them making a huge public noise about it just hasn't made a huge amount of sense to me. I can see Iran looking to develop them for deterence.

Although, with us having already invaded Iraq and rattling the sabres with Iran, I'm not surprised that the third member of the "axis of evil" would want to have their bases covered. The case could be made by them that their nuclear capabilities are what has saved them from us taking a harder line stance against them.