[jstuhlman]

And one wonders how I ended up wearing Crocs, shirtless, surrounded by empty PBR cans and huddled over a greasy camp grill burning the shit out of Food Lion brats in the Beech Mtn parking lot.

can’t wait to see the all-growed-up version (NOT) at worlds at SS next year!

 

[norbar]

Surely, given that we have; photos of the supplements Graves was previously taking that do contain one of these relatively newly-banned substances, a quote from him saying he hasn't necessarily been vigilant about checking the updated banned substance list because he'd always passed previously and now a positive test the simplest answer is that he continued to take them after they were banned and didn't realise.

I at least find this much more plausible than the proposition that these two and only these two in all the tested sports everywhere somehow got a tainted batch of commercially available RP supplements or even that RP was whipping up secret sauce blends for these guys and that's why only they have tested positive.

A few comments.

1. Many people could have gotten a tainted batch. Simply those 2 were tested and other people who got the same batch either were not competing, were not tested, took it earlier before the test
2. The tests are bad and are easy to game. All roadies dope and yet how many are caught? All tenis players dope and how many are caught? The fines for not being in the place you told WADA you will be at are silly.

 

[mykel]

I have no idea what the rules are so in this example from my own life...

What happens if you are out of "contact" for a period?

So, you are "called" for a test...but you are actually on vacation during this time period and a bit hard to contact.

Such as a canoe, backpack and see you in 2-3 weeks.

So what happens.... I don't think - "If you want me, I will be on this float-plane capable lake on this date...." would be acceptable...

 

[Gary]

Don't see why not.

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/training/anti-doping/article/izn20131218-Anti-doping---Testing-0

some of the regular UK EWS racers live in Ft William FFS. Think of the poor bastard from doping control who might have to get to that arse end of nowhere shit hole to do testing. Taking a float plane to your float plane capable lake sounds way more appealing.

 

[mykel]

I'm still confused.
It does not say what the timeframes are.
How are you contacted - phone call, registered mail with a fixed date....

If I'm out in the bush, say week 2 of a 3 week trip. - remember Canada here - the closest road might be 2-3 or more days hard travel away. How are they going to contact me? Where do we go from there?
I understand how it works when you are in "civilization" but what happens when you are not?

If I tell them where i will be and for how long?
In that case, I could go away do my cycle, then have a couple of weeks downtime...
What are the limits?
Am I not allowed to go away?
I can but with a chaperone?

I know it is only academic, but just wondering?

 

[Gary]

I think you might be overthinking this slightly

 

[norbar]

I have no idea what the rules are so in this example from my own life...

What happens if you are out of "contact" for a period?

So, you are "called" for a test...but you are actually on vacation during this time period and a bit hard to contact.

Such as a canoe, backpack and see you in 2-3 weeks.

So what happens.... I don't think - "If you want me, I will be on this float-plane capable lake on this date...." would be acceptable...

Don't know about EWS but top athletes have to give their location to WADA contantly (though have in mind it was explained to me 6 years ago so I may not be explaining everything perfectly). You can be out of contact but you have to be where you told them you will be. The problem is athletes are in different places than they said on a regular basis and are out of contact despite being in areas with reception. The punishments for that are low. My friend stopped working for wada because of that. He got frustrated because he felt like he was doing nothing.

 

[slyfink]

I'm still confused.
It does not say what the timeframes are.
How are you contacted - phone call, registered mail with a fixed date....

If I'm out in the bush, say week 2 of a 3 week trip. - remember Canada here - the closest road might be 2-3 or more days hard travel away. How are they going to contact me? Where do we go from there?
I understand how it works when you are in "civilization" but what happens when you are not?

If I tell them where i will be and for how long?
In that case, I could go away do my cycle, then have a couple of weeks downtime...
What are the limits?
Am I not allowed to go away?
I can but with a chaperone?

I know it is only academic, but just wondering?

this should help clear it up a bit: The Secret Race by Tyler Hamilton. It's also a good read.

Also, I dont't think EWS requires biological passport stuff. This test was done by the French anti-doping agency, in-competition.

 

[sethimus]

Not defending anyone... but back when I was in university, I worked in a bar. back when you could smoke in bars. I was getting bronchitis all. the. time. (like maybe 3 per winter, and then once or twice in sping and summer). I went to the Dr a few times, and they suggested I get tested for asthma. The testers agreed that working in a bar wasn't great, but also determined I had "sports-induced" asthma. I got a puffer for it. I guess it's a pretty common thing. Maybe human bodies aren't meant for long-duration high-intensity exercise, and this leads to inflammation of the upper-repiratory tract in lots of people? In any case, seems like an easy way to obtain a TUE.

CBD, lots of it

 

[mykel]

Thanks guys.

 

[toodles]

I'm still confused.
It does not say what the timeframes are.
How are you contacted - phone call, registered mail with a fixed date....

To be fair, there are plenty of real-world jobs where you can't disappear off the map for 3 weeks at a time. If thats a deal breaker for some riders, well they can go live in a boat with ratboy.

 

[mykel]

To be fair, there are plenty of real-world jobs where you can't disappear off the map for 3 weeks at a time. If thats a deal breaker for some riders, well they can go live in a boat with ratboy.

Man, you not being American, I figured you got the concept of vacation...
Whilst I can not do the 2 or 3 week multiple times in a year, there have been years that I took it all in one big gulp and went off grid.
If you are an amateur with a job, (ie Privateer) it is not outside of the realm of possibility that you could have a hobby / vacation that takes you out of normal communications for a week or maybe more. Like my backwoods canoeing, or a buddies habit of climbing mountains, or anothers of finding a secluded island in the middle of nowhere to go diving. Hell, take an active rest whilst training and take a week or 10 days to do part of the AT trail.... There are a realm of possibilities that would take you out of easy comms.

Having said that, if you tell your minder where you will be, I don't think that it would cause much issue unless it was a "really" extended time. So would your name be put on "hold" for that time period giving you a grace period if your name comes up for a random.....else break out the float-plane?


Are we having fun yet?

 

[toodles]

Man, you not being American, I figured you got the concept of vacation...
Whilst I can not do the 2 or 3 week multiple times in a year, there have been years that I took it all in one big gulp and went off grid.

Oh totally, I always prefer to take awesome big breaks and disappear and forget work. Hence I chose a job that lets me do that.

Besides, I don't know why they need to be there in person to defrost a clean urine sample and provide it to WADA.

Wait. Forget I said that.

 

[shirk007]

I have no idea what the rules are so in this example from my own life...

What happens if you are out of "contact" for a period?

So, you are "called" for a test...but you are actually on vacation during this time period and a bit hard to contact.

Such as a canoe, backpack and see you in 2-3 weeks.

So what happens.... I don't think - "If you want me, I will be on this float-plane capable lake on this date...." would be acceptable...

You not read about Svein Tuft living in the woods?

"In 2006, after winning his third consecutive Canadian road time trial championship, he moved into a trailer on Kevin Cunningham’s property. It was the perfect combination of old life and new.

If the sport’s drug testers needed to find him, he would sometimes provide only vague directions, like “end of the logging road, up the trail head at the top of the ridge.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/08/sports/othersports/08cycling.html

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Rumours say that some "compromising" clips from RR have been removed from the internet...

 

[shelteringsky]

Rumours say that some "compromising" clips from RR have been removed from the internet...

Any more details? Don’t leave us hanging..,

 

[norbar]

Man, you not being American, I figured you got the concept of vacation...
Whilst I can not do the 2 or 3 week multiple times in a year, there have been years that I took it all in one big gulp and went off grid.
If you are an amateur with a job, (ie Privateer) it is not outside of the realm of possibility that you could have a hobby / vacation that takes you out of normal communications for a week or maybe more. Like my backwoods canoeing, or a buddies habit of climbing mountains, or anothers of finding a secluded island in the middle of nowhere to go diving. Hell, take an active rest whilst training and take a week or 10 days to do part of the AT trail.... There are a realm of possibilities that would take you out of easy comms.

Having said that, if you tell your minder where you will be, I don't think that it would cause much issue unless it was a "really" extended time. So would your name be put on "hold" for that time period giving you a grace period if your name comes up for a random.....else break out the float-plane?


Are we having fun yet?

Amateurs don't have to give their location. So not a problem.

Also you chose the profession that forces you to do something. No one forces those people to race (I usually hate this argument but it works here). I don't hear cooks and chefs complaining about 12h shifts, cut and burned hands and claiming they need special treatment because other jobs.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Any more details? Don’t leave us hanging..,

Try to find the video where he overtakes Oton in La Thuile 2016, for example

 

[shelteringsky]

Try to find the video where he overtakes Oton in La Thuile 2016, for example

I did find the said video here:

http://www.endurotribe.com/2016/07/ews-thuile-2016-richie-rude-ecrase-premier-jour-de-course/

Has RR pulled it from his social media or something?

At any rate, that overtaking move says it all really. If it seems too good to be true...

Interesting to read the comments on the Endurotribe article from way back in 2016. Recent test results must be vindicating for some.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Maybe RR hates the French a little bit more now...
We will see how long the video stays on this website. The one from YouTube is gone...

 

[slyfink]

Moar fuel for the fire... here's a GPS/time analysis of that stage... For the record, I haven't thought enough about the implications to draw any conclusions or inferences... But I thought it was relevant to add to the discussion.

 

[roflbox]

maybe RR has been riding the yeti ebike this whole time?

 

[dcamp29]

Moar fuel for the fire... here's a GPS/time analysis of that stage... For the record, I haven't thought enough about the implications to draw any conclusions or inferences... But I thought it was relevant to add to the discussion.

View attachment 131768

He found 30s on Jared Graves also?

 

[6thElement]

He found 30s on Jared Graves also?

Maybe he drank Graves shake that morning too.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Some relevant interviews here: https://www.bigbike-magazine.com/actu-olargues-fred-glo-cedric-carrez-jerome-clementz-jean-pierre-mondenard-expriment-les-tests-afld?fbclid=IwAR2i2wZlEXYcr4aIgKpbO7uXDeJ-q_lyAEhZ1CUOh_Zv4gFMd9IVFuJwOjE
A med specialised in doping, Clementz, Fred Glo and a French team manager and former racer.
It's in French but you should be able to translate it.

 

[Bike078]

Some relevant interviews here: https://www.bigbike-magazine.com/actu-olargues-fred-glo-cedric-carrez-jerome-clementz-jean-pierre-mondenard-expriment-les-tests-afld?fbclid=IwAR2i2wZlEXYcr4aIgKpbO7uXDeJ-q_lyAEhZ1CUOh_Zv4gFMd9IVFuJwOjE
A med specialised in doping, Clementz, Fred Glo and a French team manager and former racer.
It's in French but you should be able to translate it.

Read that yesterday. Couple of the interviewees believe RR and JG took it intentionally yes?

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Read that yesterday. Couple of the interviewees believe RR and JG took it intentionally yes?

If you read between the lines, yes!

The med said that both substances they tested positive for have to be taken the same day you want them to have an effect. He also said that there is no threshold values for these substances, they should not be in your body if you play by the rules. There is still the possibility that RR and JR got these substances in their body without knowing...

The future will tell us something either white lies or the truth.

 

[aaronjb]

Man I wish we had power meter data...

Anyone think these guys may have been relieved to *only* have been busted for these stimulants?

 

[jstuhlman]

i’m beyond the point of giving even the tiniest little fuck about this

 

[aenema]

i’m beyond the point of giving even the tiniest little fuck about this

But,... you just read and then replied to a thread about this so you must give that many fucks at least.

 

[jstuhlman]

But,... you just read and then replied to a thread about this so you must give that many fucks at least.

nope

 

[sethimus]

There is still the possibility that RR and JR got these substances in their body without knowing...

The future will tell us something either white lies or the truth.

here, drink this totally herbal sports drink that enables you to power more on race day! no speed in it, i swear!

 

[mykel]

I'm with @jstuhlman - I'm just here to gawk at the trainwreck.

 

[roflbox]

maximum gawkery will occur with the first yeti ebike

IM STILL WAITING

 

[stiksandstones]

Wheres this video?

 

[dump]

Wheres this video?

7 minutes of my life I will not get back. Luckily I was doing something else at the time, so there's that. Didn't look like anything to get worked up over. Two guys sprinting up a hill. One guy passing the other at the crest. Yawn.

Go here:
http://www.endurotribe.com/2016/07/ews-thuile-2016-richie-rude-ecrase-premier-jour-de-course/
(go down to La Cartouche, below that is a video, press play. Skip to 7:28.)

 

[fwp]

The ironic thing about this whole situation is the fact that if it weren't for Richie Rude and Jared Graves the EWS would still have no respect from the bike racing world. Its gained in popularity immensely in the past few years mostly due to the World class talent crossing over from DH (Rude and Graves) IMO. Those two guys really made the EWS what it is now. Now Sam Hill is the King of Enduro and its gotten even more popular. Everyone getting a paycheck from their involvement/ participation in the EWS should appreciate what those two have done for the sport.

 

[djjohnr]

The ironic thing about this whole situation is the fact that if it weren't for Richie Rude and Jared Graves the EWS would still have no respect from the bike racing world. Its gained in popularity immensely in the past few years mostly due to the World class talent crossing over from DH (Rude and Graves) IMO. Those two guys really made the EWS what it is now. Now Sam Hill is the King of Enduro and its gotten even more popular. Everyone getting a paycheck from their involvement/ participation in the EWS should appreciate what those two have done for the sport.

Fabien Barel? Nico Vouilloz? ACC?

 

[Inclag]

The ironic thing about this whole situation is the fact that if it weren't for Lance Armstrong and Floyd Landis the TdF would still have no respect from Americans. Its gained in popularity immensely in the past few years mostly due to the World class talent crossing over from Triathlon IMO. Those guys really made the TdF what it is now. Now Chris Froome is the King of Doping and its gotten even more popular. Everyone getting a paycheck from their involvement/ participation in the TdF should appreciate what those two have done for the sport.

Weak take is weak.

Endurbro was really big in Europe waaaayyyyy before the EWS and it was always going to be successful regardless of whatever downhillers were going to give it a go. It is the perfect balance of how to make a squid feel like they accomplished a hard thing even when they got 54th place. Kind of like tough mudders, marathons, or any other participation sport. It's format and allure that you're doing a hard 'bad ass' thing guaranteed it would overtake downhill on the participation front. Everyone getting sponsorship and a paycheck in the sport at this time were just savvy and aware at the opportunity. Graves and Rude are great riders, but that's ripe to suggest that anyone should be thanking them.

 

[toodles]

It's format and allure that you're doing a hard 'bad ass' thing guaranteed it would overtake downhill on the participation front..

I agree although I'd tend to believe that DH is more about feeling like you're doing a bad ass thing when you're realistically 30 seconds off the elites and basically over-biked as fuck for what you're actually doing. I think most of Enduro's popularity comes from not requiring a chairlift/shuttles to participate, actually getting some ride time in a race weekend and being way less intimidating for punters.