[Full Trucker]

kinetic does make a resistance enabled smart trainer control head that's compatible with the unit i have..... for $350.

Kinetic — Kinetic Control Power Unit - Bike Trainer

Part of our newest generation of interactive, app-controlled trainers, offering the best power-training workout available and now featuring ANT+ FE-C and Bluetooth FTMS and a more accurate and responsive ride. The NEW Kinetic Control Power Unit installs in minutes and is the most affordable and conv

www.kurtkinetic.com

FWIW... I picked up my Wahoo KICKR Snap used on CL for about that much. But I also didn't have a trainer to start with... and the idea of riding indoors made me feel bad about my life choices, so I made the investment in something that had promise to be more engaging for me.

 

[jonKranked]

That's a nice thing about the Peloton: the resistance range goes up quite high. At indicated 99% or 100% resistance and a high cadence in full sprint it'll register up to about 1500W, so for non-actual pro sprinters it's perfectly adequate. My record thus far is 1532 for about 10 seconds, limited equally by my own creatine kinase system and the resistance/cadence limits of the device.

and i can get a similar function with an upgrade that'll cost less than a quarter of the cost of a peloton.

 

[jonKranked]

FWIW... I picked up my Wahoo KICKR Snap used on CL for about that much. But I also didn't have a trainer to start with... and the idea of riding indoors made me feel bad about my life choices, so I made the investment in something that had promise to be more engaging for me.

yea, i've had mine for nearly a decade now. if i was starting from scratch i'd look at other options. but the kinetics are still very competitively priced.

 

[Toshi]

and i can get a similar function with an upgrade that'll cost less than a quarter of the cost of a peloton.

Yeah, there's the Echelon and other cheaper options, sure. But the instructors are good, the build quality is fine, my credit card reimburses me $125 yearly towards monthly costs anyway, and the social aspect through Power Zone Pack challenges is engaging for both me and the wife. I don't regret it… and I know where I'm going to put the Peloton in the mountain house, too.



(Getting a Peloton Bike+ to live in the basement here in Denver, OG Bike- to be transported into the hills. Shall be interesting to see how the more-accurate-yet Bike+ feels at a reported nominal power level…)

 

[Full Trucker]

and i can get a similar function with an upgrade that'll cost less than a quarter of the cost of a peloton.

And doesn't require a fairly hefty monthly subscription to an app. Not to knock on @Toshi here, everyone I know that's in the Peloton universe really likes the product and the service. But it is more spendy.

yea, i've had mine for nearly a decade now. if i was starting from scratch i'd look at other options. but the kinetics are still very competitively priced.

If you're interested, set up a CL or eBay alert and wait for a deal on the upgrade to come along... I just found some refurbished ones for $50 less than new: https://www.ebay.com/itm/T-6300R-KINETIC-CONTROL-POWER-UNIT-REFURBISHED/224380021796

 

[CrabJoe StretchPants]

Nice. You took an FTP test in August 2020? Or is this some weird estimation thing again?

That's what the "???" was for.....I've never taken an FTP test, nor do I have a PoWeR mEtEr to do so....hence wondering W(here)TF that number came from. Seems like it could be somewhat legit, as it isn't 53 or 3,474.

 

[jonKranked]

And doesn't require a fairly hefty monthly subscription to an app. Not to knock on @Toshi here, everyone I know that's in the Peloton universe really likes the product and the service. But it is more spendy.


If you're interested, set up a CL or eBay alert and wait for a deal on the upgrade to come along... I just found some refurbished ones for $50 less than new: https://www.ebay.com/itm/T-6300R-KINETIC-CONTROL-POWER-UNIT-REFURBISHED/224380021796

i get a $400 exercise reimbursement allowance a year through work. this year was the garmin, that will likely be next years expense.

 

[jonKranked]

And doesn't require a fairly hefty monthly subscription to an app. Not to knock on @Toshi here, everyone I know that's in the Peloton universe really likes the product and the service. But it is more spendy.

yea, i have no doubt about the quality of the equipment or the service, but as a long time cyclist and a cheapskate it seems like more of a status symbol than anything. a guy in my department at work has one and never shuts the fuck up about it. he also does crossfit, so that really tells you a lot about him.

 

[CrabJoe StretchPants]

i get a $400 exercise reimbursement allowance a year through work. this year was the garmin, that will likely be next years expense.

I should really take advantage of some of the work benefits offered that I currently don't. Such as the exercise reimbursement thing, and "biometric screening" reimbursement, etc.

All shit I already do or minimal inconvenience to do. I'm dumb.

 

[Full Trucker]

yea, i have no doubt about the quality of the equipment or the service, but as a long time cyclist and a cheapskate it seems like more of a status symbol than anything. a guy in my department at work has one and never shuts the fuck up about it. he also does crossfit, so that really tells you a lot about him.

How do you know if someone's vegan, a crossfitter, a telemark skier, or owns a Peloton?

Don't worry... they'll tell you.

 

[Full Trucker]

I should really take advantage of some of the work benefits offered that I currently don't. Such as the exercise reimbursement thing, and "biometric screening" reimbursement, etc.

All shit I already do or minimal inconvenience to do. I'm dumb.

I would think that @stoney would yell at you for not taking free money.

 

[CrabJoe StretchPants]

He yells at me for lots of things. Money, being fat....

 

[jonKranked]

I should really take advantage of some of the work benefits offered that I currently don't. Such as the exercise reimbursement thing, and "biometric screening" reimbursement, etc.

All shit I already do or minimal inconvenience to do. I'm dumb.

yea you should.

i get 20% off garmin stuff through a work discount too. so i used that plus the exercise reimbursement. when all is said and done i think i paid maybe about $40 out of pocket for the edge 830 / sensor bundle with their silicon case.

 

[6thElement]

I wish I could get exercise related $ from my company.

I don't think exercise is high on the list of an Alabama based US HQ though...

 

[Full Trucker]

I wish I could get exercise related $ from my company.

I don't think exercise is high on the list of an Alabama based US HQ though...

Yeah it's probably WAY at the bottom of the list, just ahead of "education".

 

[rideit]

That's a nice thing about the Peloton: the resistance range goes up quite high. At indicated 99% or 100% resistance and a high cadence in full sprint it'll register up to about 1500W, so for non-actual pro sprinters it's perfectly adequate. My record thus far is 1532 for about 10 seconds, limited equally by my own creatine kinase system and the resistance/cadence limits of the device.

If I could repeat those kind of numbers on a bike out in the wild, I would NEVER have a ebike, as it would be annoying to constantly exceed the limiter.

 

[stoney]

I would think that @stoney would yell at you for not taking free money.

Correct. Free money. Dumbass, one could say.

 

[jonKranked]

That's what the "???" was for.....I've never taken an FTP test, nor do I have a PoWeR mEtEr to do so....hence wondering W(here)TF that number came from. Seems like it could be somewhat legit, as it isn't 53 or 3,474.

i think its an estimation based on other body metrics that get entered? that's my best guesstimate

 

[Westy]

Could be either, depending on the workout. Sometimes it's just "hey hit this zone" and other times it's "hit this wattage specifically" or whatever.


The other night it was kind of all over the place... I think there was some method to the madness though. My FTP is currently 225, and the other night it had me doing some nonsense that looked like this:

1 min - ramp up
4 min - 200W
1 min - 290W (I think... it was up a zone for sure)
1 min - recovery @ 150W

1 min - ramp up
4 min - 210W
1 min - 290W (I think... it was up a zone for sure)
1 min - recovery @ 150W

1 min - ramp up
4 min - 225W
30 sec - 290W (I think... it was up a zone for sure)
2 min - recovery @ 150W

1 min - ramp up
4 min - 235W
30 sec - 290W (I think... it was up a zone for sure)
2 min - recovery @ 150W

1 min - ramp up
4 min - 245W
30 sec - 290W (I think... it was up a zone for sure)

Then a "full gas" ramp for 1-2 minutes and cool down to finish.

Zwift was yelling at me to go like 95rpm cadence on the longer efforts, and like 105rpm on the high wattage ones. I think I just don't ever pedal that fast... probably/maybe because mountain biking? 90rpm feels fast to me, 75-80rpm is more where I generally pedal. The one "mountain bike" workout thinger I did focused on lower cadence work...

It should also be noted, that I've done a sum total of 2-3 workouts where I'm hitting zones and such. Usually I just pedal with a group or pick a route and pedal that. Still experimenting with the workouts... so I don't have any set plan yet.

I find Zwift trying to make you spin quickly also to be super annoying. The popular concept of spin for power doesn't work for me. I am all slow twitch muscles and do best between 65 and 75 RPM. When I tried a single speed, climbing was never the problem, it was trying to spin up for any real speed. I think most people not only do better at higher rpms but also have a wider power band than I do.

 

[jonKranked]

The popular concept of spin for power doesn't work for me

doesn't work for anyone.

 

[Westy]

doesn't work for anyone.

I know people who are quite happy at 95+ rpm all day. But it also takes really good form with your pedal stroke. If your a flat pedal MTBer, you are probably not that guy.

 

[jonKranked]

I know people who are quite happy at 95+ rpm all day. But it also takes really good form with your pedal stroke. If your a flat pedal MTBer, you are probably not that guy.

my point is that cadence != power

 

[gonefirefightin]

Been contemplating on buying a gravel grinder just for the power meter metrics. Think it would still provide some decent values even though not on asphalt?

 

[Westy]

my point is that cadence != power

Some people have VTEC. I am a diesel tractor.

 

[Westy]

Been contemplating on buying a gravel grinder just for the power meter metrics. Think it would still provide some decent values even though not on asphalt?

I would guess a bumpy situation would reduce the accuracy of something like a pedal based power meter, less so on say a hub. Ether way you probably only looking at a few percent one way or the other. Unless you are trying to get scientific probably not a big deal.

 

[gonefirefightin]

I would guess a bumpy situation would reduce the accuracy of something like a pedal based power meter, less so on say a hub. Ether way you probably only looking at a few percent one way or the other. Unless you are trying to get scientific probably not a big deal.

Seems long term metrics would be a better standard then, I refuse to ride over asphalt or anywhere near traffic anymore.

 

[Toshi]

If I could repeat those kind of numbers on a bike out in the wild, I would NEVER have a ebike, as it would be annoying to constantly exceed the limiter.

Oh, I can repeat it. Again, this is for 10 seconds dump the creatine kinase kind of power. My 1 minute power from today was 362W, for comparison.

(for Evan calibration purposes: this 6-4-5, 5-3-4, 6-4-5 interval ride was a bitch, even dropping zone 3 to zone 2 as I do. Wiggly graph lines because I grind the low cadences and that has interference with the sampling rate of the power calculation, apparently.)

 

[Toshi]

1) interesting study. Don't overdo 95% of VO2 max intervals, apparently!

https://twitter.com/maximumcharacte/status/1372567283344769029?s=20

2) After a few easy days (rest day outright on Tuesday!) my heart rate variability tracker tells me I should get off my ass and do some proper intervals today. So I'll probably do a 45 or 60 minute Power Zone ride, get some zone 4 and 5 time in and maybe push it higher yet at the end a la the last post's ride.

 

[gonefirefightin]

I assume there is a smart phone compatible power meter these days, strava integration? or is garmin still the way to go?

 

[Full Trucker]

I assume there is a smart phone compatible power meter these days, strava integration? or is garmin still the way to go?

Short answer: yes.

Longer answer: I think most power meters, heart rate monitors, cadence and speed sensors, etc. can be picked up by any number of phone apps that detect such devices which emit a BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy) signal. I know the Wahoo and Zwift apps on my phone recognize both my Wahoo KICKR Snap and the Garmin Speed and Cadence sensors I have. The Garmin Connect app, however, only appears to recognize the Garmin sensors not the Wahoo trainer. But, the work around there is to pipe the Wahoo into my Garmin Edge 510 (which I think works?) and then when I upload rides to wherever the fuck... all the data goes with it. To be honest, I actually haven't tried to link the KICKR to the Edge, since I just send the KICKR signal straight to the training app (Zwift in my case). Strava integration (at least for me) is still done by Zwift pushing the "ride" to Strava. Not a big deal to me, since I basically do similar with my outside rides recorded on the Garmin... the Edge 510 uploads to Garmin Connect which then pushes to Strava. Also of note, I have Zwift set up to push to both Strava AND Garmin Connect, and so far all platforms have been intelligent enough to not create duplicate activities. I cannot say the same for the Garmin Cadence Sensor... if I connect it to the Garmin Connect app AND the Edge 510, I'll get duplicates in Garmin Connect. Kinda dumb. Anycrap, DC Rainmaker seems to be a go-to resource for getting the low-down on all the different fancy apps and such.

TL;DR: Garmin can still be a big part of your setup if you have Garmin devices, but it doesn't need to be.

 

[jonKranked]

Short answer: yes.

Longer answer: I think most power meters, heart rate monitors, cadence and speed sensors, etc. can be picked up by any number of phone apps that detect such devices which emit a BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy) signal. I know the Wahoo and Zwift apps on my phone recognize both my Wahoo KICKR Snap and the Garmin Speed and Cadence sensors I have. The Garmin Connect app, however, only appears to recognize the Garmin sensors not the Wahoo trainer. But, the work around there is to pipe the Wahoo into my Garmin Edge 510 (which I think works?) and then when I upload rides to... wherever the fuck all the data goes with it. Strava integration (at least for me) is still done by whatever training app I am using (Zwift in my case) then pushing the "ride" to Strava. Not a big deal to me, since I basically do similar with my outside rides recorded on the Garmin... Edge 510 uploads to Garmin Connect which pushes to Strava. Also of note, I have Zwift set up to push to both Strava AND Garmin Connect, and so far all platforms have been intelligent enough to not create duplicate activities. I cannot say the same for the Garmin Cadence Sensor... if I connect it to the Garmin Connect app AND the Edge 510, I'll get duplicates in Garmin Connect. Kinda dumb.

DC Rainmaker seems to be a go-to resource for getting the low-down on all the different fancy apps and such.

yea, my Edge 830 picks up my garmin sensors (including heart rate) as well as the power meter on my Kinetic trainer. having all the sensors read through a single device (ie the garmin) gives a large number of performance metrics.

 

[Full Trucker]

yea, my Edge 830 picks up my garmin sensors (including heart rate) as well as the power meter on my Kinetic trainer. having all the sensors read through a single device (ie the garmin) gives a large number of performance metrics.

I assume you mean gives a large number of performance metrics in real time, on the Garmin screen? Which is cool, and helpful.

It should also be noted that connecting all your shit to whatever training app you want to use (Zwift, Rouvy, TrainingPeaks, blah blah blah) also provides similar real-time performance metrics. And if you have no Garmin devices, you don't need to get a Garmin app in the mix.

 

[jonKranked]

I assume you mean gives a large number of performance metrics in real time, on the Garmin screen? Which is cool, and helpful.

both. once a ride is uploaded to garmin connect from it, it also estimates things like vo2 max

 

[Toshi]

After a few easy days (rest day outright on Tuesday!) my heart rate variability tracker tells me I should get off my ass and do some proper intervals today. So I'll probably do a 45 or 60 minute Power Zone ride, get some zone 4 and 5 time in and maybe push it higher yet at the end a la the last post's ride.

Oof. That didn’t feel good but I pushed through. Easy day tomorrow. Latter two graphs include my recovery spin after the intervals.

 

[Toshi]

Good HRV this morning so I decided to do something hard. But first a warmup to chase DFA alpha 1 and find my aerobic threshold this morning.

It was about 124 bpm and 175W this morning, for the record.

Then the real work. Ignored the calls for zones except that when he called zone 4 I did zone 5-6. Everything else near or below aerobic threshold.

Then in the last 15 minutes I built myself in a recovery ride. Aerobic threshold after these four hard intervals was at 128-130 bpm and 120-140W—it changes substantially! White data points on the every-2-minutes DFA alpha 1 plot are of those where I was working below my aerobic threshold.

 

[Toshi]

Didn't follow the called out zones at all tonight and made up my own ride instead. Two 3 minute intervals in zone 6 or so. Hit 170 bpm against my max of about 172 bpm so really at the limit. Did 20 minutes of cooldown after intervals, having to drop to 90-100W ultimately to get to my target recovery heart rate of 124 bpm.

 

[Sandwich]

My 530 has pushed my FTP up to 237. I think I need to retest. Maybe with MOAR fans, or even outdoors if I can find a good grind out here (I can't).

 

[6thElement]

My 530 has pushed my FTP up to 237. I think I need to retest. Maybe with MOAR fans, or even outdoors if I can find a good grind out here (I can't).

I don't think you'll get anything outdoors if you don't have a PM on your bike?

 

[jonKranked]

Garmin's Power Meter SPDs are official. $700 for single sided, $1200 for dual.

One cool aspect is that thes spindles for their power meter pedals are identical, so you can actually swap the pedal bodies between road and mountain, and they actually sell the pedal bodies by themselves for $200.

 

[Sandwich]

I don't think you'll get anything outdoors if you don't have a PM on your bike?

it's a good thing there is a power meter in my pedal.

I swap between my road bike and my trainer, correcting for crank length. My 530 can auto-calculate FTP based on actual 8 minute efforts, or something like that? I dunno