[IH8Rice]

its one of the reasons i have started doing more all mountain type of events like ashland 12 mile dh/ downieville/ and mega the atmosphere is fresh and doesn't feel like a bunch of riders trying to keep something going that has run its course. i still have fun with traditional events... but its hard on a national level after being involved in the 90's

i was really bummed to see the state of the naked crit a couple of years ago.

i can see for someone like you that has been racing for a while that your "traditional" racing could get boring. thankfully there are other great events out there...(too bad the Mt 7 Psychosis race isnt happening anymore)

thinking racing will get to what is was in the 90's is definitely wishful thinking, but its still a nice thought


and the naked crit was embarrassing. it was huge years ago (no pun intended.)
..i also remember the days of the craziness at Haystack's parking lot.

 

[BC VAN]

Our society, and our sport are both clearly unhealthy. Very.

All of us who make our living off of bikes need to continue to eat, have heat, etc- but it's clear that if some things stay on their current course, and reality-televison becomes reality, news becomes rss feeds and tweets, and marketing becomes progressively more viral, the only way we call all affect things at all is one thing that can not be commodified- passion.

We all need to regestalt the spaces in which we live. Great fortunes are worthless without things to spend them on. Some of us are still alive that were deeply enriched by slalom of the past. We don't need to necessarily focus on short-term financial gains, because the short-term payoff, in terms of sheer pleasure will be so overwhelming and so infectious that a groundswell of support will soon asphyixate all the old voices, and slalom will be born anew.

It does not matter what all the wannabe rockstar poseur groms think about slalom, or what participation looks like at current big race venues- as far as slalom is concerned, those things are dead. We don't need them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Tu9Rx9g8Mn4&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Tu9Rx9g8Mn4&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Gated MTB racing is the real Bicycle Motorcross. We have bikes that are whole lot better than Stingrays too. And people who are passionate about things, even if an "industry" doesn't exist for it can build something special.

I am passionate about bikes, and i think DS will always have a place in our sport, where that place is i am not sure? i know i will always be down for a day of slalom racing.

I am not sure if you want it to be back to where it was in the 90's or some type of underground movement? i am not sure if it will be either? i think people will still ride DS, because it's fun and they like it. the financial gain from DS is long gone for sure.

What i got from your blog was that riding DS and the head to head competition without the contact is exciting, and the old days glory days were magical.

I can clearly remember racing side by side Lopes and Palmer and thinking we can't keep going this fast all the way to the bottom one of us is going to crash. and usually thats what would happen!

Slight derailment here but, i couldn't disagree with you more on the last statement about DS being the real Bicycle Motocross growing up racing BMX in the 70's we rode BMX bikes to emulate Motocross, no where have i ever seen a motocross race of Dual Slalom.

Dual Slalom is what it is... nothing more or less, an awesome discipline borrowed from ski racing that is very exciting to participate in and watch if your passionate about bicycles.

 

[BC VAN]

MT Snow in the 90's was unbelievable really, i remember going to a remote campground with the Barracuda team rig and handing out Dos XX beers to people ( team sponsor) it was like a village of people riding bikes and running around crazy! i remember thinking man how can i possible go back to racing BMX in cow barns! ha ha ha

 

[General Lee]

We do not need subtraction or addition, we need consistent cross-appropriation and selective adaptation. Small bikes+ Gates+bike riders makes history. All of us who were around in the '90s have a sort of Generational Articulation, a Pervasive Style- a collective memory of Slalom- In the tiny discursive space of bike racing, and the even smaller family of Mtb racing, Slalom has a place that can not be ignored, nor should it be.

There is a whole gamut of possible gated racing events that exist out there, not just 4x or slalom. The permutations are endless, and must be explored.

But Slalom is holy

Mickey, I'm sure you've heard of the Ig Nobel awards handed out at Harvard every year for achievements that, "first make people laugh, and then make them think." This year they handed out awards for determining if it is better to be hit on the head with an empty bottle of beer or a full one, for making diamonds out of tequila, and developing a gas mask that can be worn as a bra. but one of my all time favorites is the 2006 award for literature given to Daniel M. Oppenheimer of Princeton University for his 17-page report Consequences of Erudite Vernacular Utilized Irrespective of Necessity: Problems with Using Long Words Needlessly

that is all i have to contribute

 

[General Lee]

MT Snow in the 90's was unbelievable really, i remember going to a remote campground with the Barracuda team rig and handing out Dos XX beers to people ( team sponsor) it was like a village of people riding bikes and running around crazy! i remember thinking man how can i possible go back to racing BMX in cow barns! ha ha ha

So you must have been there in '94 when the place cleared out for the Grateful Dead show 3 hrs north and filled back up in the wee hours of the morning when all the 'Dead fans returned in fine form (incidentally, from a show that got the Dead banned from playing Highgate ever again)?

That campground used to be absolutely lawless, as quite a few industry and magazine editor types will remember from their own experience back in their teenage years . . .

 

[gemini2k]

MT Snow in the 90's was unbelievable really, i remember going to a remote campground with the Barracuda team rig and handing out Dos XX beers to people ( team sponsor) it was like a village of people riding bikes and running around crazy! i remember thinking man how can i possible go back to racing BMX in cow barns! ha ha ha

You definitely need racing back in Socal to jump start the scene, have to accept that as a fact. Question is, why would anyone want to do the races here. Not counting a few underground races we have what, Fontana and Santa Ynez? Lets look at my options on a weekend.

Racing
1. Drive 3 hours to Fontana, pay 50 dollars (plus gas money to get there) to ride a mediocre course with a few hundred feet of vert, with a piss poor shuttle system where I'm only going to get a half dozen runs in if I'm lucky.

2. Drive 40 minutes to Santa Ynez and basically the same result (maybe slightly more fun course?)


OR, not race and...

3. Ride local SB trails with several thousand feet of vert, for just a $10-15 to shuttle all day, get way more saddle time in, way better trails, way more challenging
(or simi trails, or malibu, or SLO, or Big Bear etc.)
4. Drive 3 hours to mt. baldy, pay $25 to ride a LIFT and get over 10k feet of vert in a day with little effort. (actually there are no trails there, just unrideable terrain, stay away)
5. Drive 6 hours to Mammoth, ride the lifts, ride amazing trails, only $40 a lift ticket

These are just a small fraction of my riding options on a given weekend, not including XC/AM rides. Why in god's name would ANYONE choose option 1 or 2 more than once a year? I really enjoy racing. Probably the 2-3 most fun and memorable weekends I have a riding are some of the races I've done.

 

[Eastern States Cup]

Why in god's name would ANYONE choose option 1 or 2 more than once a year?

because it's racing

 

[BC VAN]

So you must have been there in '94 when the place cleared out for the Grateful Dead show 3 hrs north and filled back up in the wee hours of the morning when all the 'Dead fans returned in fine form (incidentally, from a show that got the Dead banned from playing Highgate ever again)?

That campground used to be absolutely lawless, as quite a few industry and magazine editor types will remember from their own experience back in their teenage years . . .

i don't remember anything bout a dead show going down, not sure what night i was there? but the lawless part i remember, there were people just cruising around everywhere drinking beers and having a good time.

it was one of the motivating factors for me to do the Hill Billy Bike Bash last year... i think the good time element has been strangled out of the race events.

 

[olddogbmxer]

There is a DS race coming up on Oct. 31 at Belle Mountain in NJ that I hope will begin to address alot of the issues that plague DS racing.Course is being designed and built by Jim Dellavalle at Belle Mountain, a defunct county owned ski area which is being developed into a mountain bike destination. There are also plans for a pump track, skills section, xc and freeride trails. Mercer County, Knapps Cyclery, Gregs Landscaping, JORBA, MMR/Jim Dellavalle are spearheading up this project. This is an awesome opportunity
for the gravity MTB community to have local government support of our sport
and offer a public place to ride and have events. This could become a model for other similar projects. For additonal information please go to
www.knappscyclery.com

 

[IH8Rice]

how are they going to address the state of DS racing??

 

[UiUiUiUi]

because it's racing

honestly i think thats the one and main problem we are having here you "racer boys" (and girls for that matter) tend to think that racing is all that matters...
which is not the case for a huge part of the people who ride bikes.

they want to ride and have fun if thats on a race, fine.
if not they will just leave the racing part of bike riding behind and have fun without number plates on their bikes

 

[olddogbmxer]

The main purpose is to have a county facility where people can just go mountain biking and have some fun and I think he racing is a secondary activity.
It will adress some of the issues in that it will be a permanent course that doesn't have to be torn down after 6 months so people will be more willing to volunteer and put work into it and make it the best they can. More importantly since this will be a county facility the idea is that it will be open to the public to ride and not at the mercy of some ski resort owner whose only interest is making $$$ (which there is nothing wrong with as thats what they are in business for, but its not necessarily always in the best interests of the sport) Yes,you will have to pay when they have races but otherwise it will be a county facility open to the public and there will be other features there also like a skills section, pump track, freeride/xc trails etc. I look at it as kind of back to the grass roots.Local governments put $$$ and efforts into all kinds of other sports so why not MTB. I think its a great thing for our sport and just happens that it will include DS.

 

[General Lee]

honestly i think thats the one and main problem we are having here you "racer boys" (and girls for that matter) tend to think that racing is all that matters...
which is not the case for a huge part of the people who ride bikes.

they want to ride and have fun if thats on a race, fine.
if not they will just leave the racing part of bike riding behind and have fun without number plates on their bikes

This is a thread about 4x, that is to say a thread explicitly about racing. go start a thread about non-competitive 4x riding (what?) and have your own debate.

. . . and you just referred to George as a racer boy

 

[UiUiUiUi]

hm i believe my lack of english skills lead to a misunderstanding of whats been discussed here...

we went from Dual's better than 4x and will rescue gated racing to: dual wont save gated racing because it only appeals to racers didn't we?

whatever sorry...

 

[IH8Rice]

. . . and you just referred to George as a racer boy

ill be sure to use that this weekend!

 

[jonKranked]

because it's racing

and that's how some people get their jollies in.

 

[jonKranked]

ill be sure to use that this weekend!

make sure its "racer boi"

 

[IH8Rice]

make sure its "racer boi"

 

[Ithnu]

One issue I know exists with gated racing is that is costs more to build and maintain a 4X or DS course than a DH course. And then take for example the MSC race at Crested Butte.

My group:Cat 2 19-29
$50 entry fee
DH = 45 riders =$2250
4X = 9 riders = $450

And 4X costs more, figure out the economics there. That's what will kill gated racing. I think 4X is ok, but DS is better. But if either of them costs a series to go under and ruin my DH racing I'd be bummed.

 

[IH8Rice]

bring back old school Platty DS racing on the flat grass of the ski slopes!

 

[Jester]

Bring back that platty course from 2002 with the sick gap jump. That course was rad.

 

[IH8Rice]

Bring back that platty course from 2002 with the sick gap jump. That course was rad.

plans r underway

 

[SuspectDevice]

All it takes is grass.

 

[Salty4X]

All it takes is grass.

...and a huge vagina. HAAAAA

 

[FlipFantasia]

...and a huge vagina. HAAAAA

you really aren't that funny

 

[Eastern States Cup]

you really aren't that funny

or worth responding to



racer boy, eh?

 

[SuspectDevice]

...and a huge vagina. HAAAAA

As tasteless as your stupid comment is, it brings up a great point.
Chicks, even chicks who usually race xc, can and do get into racing slalom or Dual on grass.

I would hope we can all agree, having more women, especially on the gravity end of the sport, is better in every conceivable way...

Even better, a rad rider on the same bike, on the same course, can get retardedly buck wild.

If your cornering skills are so lame that you can only conceive of 4x as the only way to race with gates, well....

At least in the Northeast, racing on grass is making a comeback.

So maybe you should just stay down in Texas and ride in your desert.

 

[IH8Rice]

If your cornering skills are so lame that you can only conceive of 4x as the only way to race with gates, well....

my new signature

 

[ska todd]

I get his bitterness.
You don't want to be the last guy standing around in a members only jacket......even if you really really love that jacket.

How did I miss this when it was posted! Must spread rep!

Oh, and we all know my thoughts on this topic. If you don't pick up the Nov issue of Mountain Bike.

-ska todd

 

[IH8Rice]

How did I miss this when it was posted! Must spread rep!

Oh, and we all know my thoughts on this topic. If you don't pick up the Nov issue of Mountain Bike.

-ska todd

are you doing that column monthly now?

 

[ska todd]

are you doing that column monthly now?

One-off rotating deal.

-ska todd

 

[Salty4X]

If your cornering skills are so lame that you can only conceive of 4x as the only way to race with gates, well....

At least in the Northeast, racing on grass is making a comeback.

So maybe you should just stay down in Texas and ride in your desert.

Funny thing is, Id love to come to your local spot and show you how to corner. Unlike most of you I don't despise DS like you do 4X, in fact I have great finishes in the events I have raced. I like em both, and the reason i post up is because Im not a big fan of haters beating a dead dog over and over. Sweet, grass racing ...and I will never quit wearing my members jacket and blue blockers. Let the hating continue...

 

[jonKranked]

All it takes is grass.

you guys related?

 

[chillindrdude]

How did I miss this when it was posted! Must spread rep!

Oh, and we all know my thoughts on this topic. If you don't pick up the Nov issue of Mountain Bike.

-ska todd

i read that column this past weekend while perusing the mags at Borders. Well stated

but at least it sounds like folks are finally coming together to talk about improving 4x. (aka 4X Alliance)

 

[General Lee]

...and a huge vagina. HAAAAA

Remind us all again why it is you don't race DH?

 

[SuspectDevice]

Funny thing is, Id love to come to your local spot and show you how to corner. Unlike most of you I don't despise DS like you do 4X, in fact I have great finishes in the events I have raced. I like em both, and the reason i post up is because Im not a big fan of haters beating a dead dog over and over. Sweet, grass racing ...and I will never quit wearing my members jacket and blue blockers. Let the hating continue...

I love 4x too. As someone who builds bike frames I'd be stupid not to. As a meathead jock, I am way better at first straights than just about any mountain biker.
There is a place for every discipline, and IMO, there should be even more gated disciplines. It's more accesible, cheaper, more fun to race and more fun to watch than anything else in bicycling.

You might need to work on your reading comprehension, as I've already said this a few times in this thread.

I bet if you got better at reading, and worked on your people skills, you might be a much more effective advocate for 4x.

Being an internet blowhard, while tons of fun, doesn't accomplish a god damn thing.

Put your money where your mouth is, because with an attitude like yours, no one is going to do **** for you.

It's called rational self interest, and I recommend you get some.

 

[Salty4X]

Being an internet blowhard, while tons of fun, doesn't accomplish a god damn thing.

Put your money where your mouth is, because with an attitude like yours, no one is going to do **** for you.

It's called rational self interest, and I recommend you get some.

Hey dude, I'm not trying to accomplish anything. I'll pull you down the first straight like a grey hair and I don't need anyone to do anything for me. I ride for one of the best companies on the planet and they, as well as I, could give two shyts and a fvck about what you recommend.

 

[Salty4X]

Remind us all again why it is you don't race DH?

a)I don't live anywhere near a mountain
b)The bikes cost more than a 1/2 year of college education

other than that I'd be down like a clown

 

[SuspectDevice]

Hey dude, I'm not trying to accomplish anything. I'll pull you down the first straight like a grey hair and I don't need anyone to do anything for me. I ride for one of the best companies on the planet and they, as well as I, could give two shyts and a fvck about what you recommend.

Then I'd recommend you shut the hell up and leave advocating for bike racing to the people who give a damn.

I'm done with you.

 

[FlipFantasia]

Hey dude, I'm not trying to accomplish anything. I'll pull you down the first straight like a grey hair and I don't need anyone to do anything for me. I ride for one of the best companies on the planet and they, as well as I, could give two shyts and a fvck about what you recommend.

sounds like a classy company