[kOlsen]

I am little bored so I figured I'd start a lovely 4X thread, since everyone loves 4X here


It's pretty obvious people want slalom instead of 4X, and I couldn't agree more. Slalom is so much more entertaining, and the racing is always good. Why can't UCI see that..

They have tried this 4X thing for a number of years now, and it's going nowhere. It is time to bring back slalom!




Now updated to an 4X friendly thread.

 

[captainspauldin]

I think they need to either:
a.)Build Better 4X tracks(more MTB-oriented, rather than a big BMX track)
b.)Switch to DS

Problem with DS is it's more time-consuming.. but I guess if you had it as a all-day event with the finals at night you would be able to fit it all on a Saturday..

 

[kOlsen]

I think they need to either:
a.)Build Better 4X tracks(more MTB-oriented, rather than a big BMX track)
b.)Switch to DS

Problem with DS is it's more time-consuming.. but I guess if you had it as a all-day event with the finals at night you would be able to fit it all on a Saturday..

Yeah, but 4X would still be all about 'follow the leader'. In my opinion the only "cool" race this year was Maribor. All the mud made for some awesome passes along the way, especially from Graves.

I think option b is the way to go.

 

[jonKranked]

4x is dead.

long live slalom

 

[captainspauldin]

I was watching NWD 2, last night(saw part it of it on pinkbike yesterday and wanted to watch Nico/CG/Anna Chausson's segment over again), and they had some pretty good WC DS footage, sick tracks, good passes and crashes. BTW for those who haven't seen it.. Nico rippps in this one, as does Anne-Caroline Chausson, never seen a chick rip as hard as her..

 

[Jeremy R]

4x = Weekend at Bernies sequel.

Its been dead for a few years, and now its not even funny anymore.

 

[IH8Rice]

the head to head action of a DS race is more better than a 4X race. our last race two weeks ago at Platty summed it up

 

[kOlsen]

They had this thing in Schladming this year,
http://dirtmountainbike.com/news/join-the-4x-alliance.html

Wonder what came out of it.. Probably nothing

 

[kidwoo]

Yeah, but 4X would still be all about 'follow the leader'.

Only on a bad course. I was reminded of this last weekend watching a buddy of mine go from last place from getting tangled up to second place in two of his heats. It was awesome.

The problem is that most people don't or just don't know how to build a good course.....or just don't have the resources. It's not easy. I still love watching a race on a good track. If there were more of them, I'd probably race myself.


There's still an argument for dual in there though. It's a lot less work to build a good slalom track. And even a less than ideal one still provides good racing.

 

[kOlsen]

Only on a bad course. I was reminded of this last weekend watching a buddy of mine go from last place from getting tangled up to second place in two of his heats. It was awesome.

The problem is that most people don't or just don't know how to build a good course.....or just don't have the resources. It's not easy. I still love watching a race on a good track. If there were more of them, I'd probably race myself.


There's still an argument for dual in there though. It's a lot less work to build a good slalom track. And even a less than ideal one still provides good racing.

Good point on the last one there. There's a win win situation for slalom.

 

[Pegboy]

Holy crap, not again! This horse is dead, stop the beating... ohh the humanity!

 

[Salty4X]

These 4X vs DS threads are more played out than super D is, and the people that keep bringing them up are as useless as a used diaper. We get it you tool, most DH riders aren't pleased with the 4X scene. Why don't you take some action and do something about it. Idiots.

 

[kidwoo]

These 4X vs DS threads are more played out than super D is, and the people that keep bringing them up are as useless as a used diaper. We get it you tool, most DH riders aren't pleased with the 4X scene. Why don't you take some action and do something about it. Idiots.

How did you come up with the name 'salty?'



It's really rough that kolsen made you click on this thread and read it. He's an evil bastard.

 

[IH8Rice]

These 4X vs DS threads are more played out than super D is, and the people that keep bringing them up are as useless as a used diaper. We get it you tool, most DH riders aren't pleased with the 4X scene. Why don't you take some action and do something about it. Idiots.

congrats on winning douche of the day....and so early in the day too!

 

[Salty4X]

congrats on winning douche of the day....and so early in the day too!

dude, you used "more better" in a sentence. I don't even have to try with people like you.

...and I've been up since 6:00 am, so early is a matter of opinion.

 

[IH8Rice]

dude, you used "more better" in a sentence. I don't even have to try with people like you.

sorry i didnt use moar.


its funny every time 4X it brought up, douches like you get your mankinis in a bunch. if you dont want to read it, skip the thread.

 

[Salty4X]

sorry i didnt use moar.


its funny every time 4X it brought up, douches like you get your mankinis in a bunch. if you dont want to read it, skip the thread.

it doesnt matter what you used, you might as well said, "DS is way gooder." If I didn't love reading complaints from nerds that cant ride bikes, I wouldnt step foot in this forum, but I do. In fact I love it! I don't care if you used moar or not, but you should use a thesaurus, because douche is played out as much as your complaints and the using of the word "bits" in America to describe bike PARTS or course SECTIONS. Have a nice day.

 

[caseyo]

Where's the ignore button? You guys should street fight about grammar.

I've been pretty tired of 4x for a few years now as well, and the coverage on Universal Sports of Worlds made it look pretty bad. And Pat Parnell is a retard who should stick to announcing rollerblading. But as Woo said, my faith is somewhat restored after watching the Collegiate nats 4x this weekend. There was passing all the way down the track, it was fast, it was rough, and it had big jumps and a fair, LONG first straight with a rad option in the first turn which worked perfectly. I hope someone posts a video soon so you all can see it.

I'm not saying keep 4x, but I now know it can work, if planned correctly. Thanks Eddie McDonald.

 

[caballero]

I think that says a lot about this sport. She's been on top of this game for a while now.

it just says that she was far from the top this year

 

[kOlsen]

Salty4X:

I am really sorry for bringing this up, well not so much

 

[rockofullr]

you should use a thesaurus, because douche is played out as much as your complaints and the using of the word "bits" in America to describe bike PARTS or course SECTIONS. Have a nice day.

DOUCHE!

P.S woo, did you shoot at that N* 4X?

 

[rosenamedpoop]

dude, you used "more better" in a sentence. I don't even have to try with people like you.

...and I've been up since 6:00 am, so early is a matter of opinion.

Maybe if you stopped focusing on 4x your day would seem brighter? Like dwelling on an ex-girlfriend that left you, then slowly died. Or, maybe you just need more sleep?






.

 

[Jeremy R]

I get his bitterness.
You don't want to be the last guy standing around in a members only jacket......even if you really really love that jacket.

 

[BKQuill]

I get his bitterness.
You don't want to be the last guy standing around in a members only jacket......even if you really really love that jacket.

You're a F'ing genius Jeremy

 

[binary visions]

I get his bitterness.
You don't want to be the last guy standing around in a members only jacket......even if you really really love that jacket.

 

[kidwoo]

P.S woo, did you shoot at that N* 4X?

Yup.

 

[BC VAN]

I know that new people come to the forum and may not know how much this topic has been hashed out,
but RM should have some type of auto response to anything that concerns 4x vs. DS threads that get started,
It would shut down the thread and send a PM to the thread starter with all of the links to the pages on the topic on RM.

 

[kOlsen]

I know that new people come to the forum and may not know how much this topic has been hashed out,
but RM should have some type of auto response to anything that concerns 4x vs. DS threads that get started,
It would shut down the thread and send a PM to the thread starter with all of the links to the pages on the topic on RM.

I'm aware of the threads you're talking about.

But since the "4X alliance" thing showed up at Schladming, I thought maybe there was some new stuff, or some kind of info about the future of 4X.

Btw, I'm not a 4X hater, I just prefer to see slalom.

 

[BC VAN]

I'm aware of the threads you're talking about.

But since the "4X alliance" thing showed up at Schladming, I thought maybe there was some new stuff, or some kind of info about the future of 4X.

Btw, I'm not a 4X hater, I just prefer to see slalom.

I was sent the minutes of the meeting of the 4x alliance, it reminded me of meetings from 4 to 5 years ago, not really anything new, that would make a difference.

For the record i like both and done properly both are great.

I just don't like to see people so over the top either way, the whole deal of 4x ruined the sport and Dual Slalom would revitalize and save the world is nuts...i raced DS at World Cups, no body gave a rats ass about it, then we did dual and both were seriously a worse side show then the current 4x. dual had more take outs then you see now and Slalom had no body show up.

I think more DH riders would participate if they gave an Overall (that was the highest honor as far as prize money and prestige) for riders that did both events. Until UCI steps up to do that it will continue to be more and more segmented.

KOlsen i think you had a valid reason to start the thread and i am not trying to knock you but everyone of these threads start out good and then blow up within 5 post.

 

[SuspectDevice]

We do not need subtraction or addition, we need consistent cross-appropriation and selective adaptation. Small bikes+ Gates+bike riders makes history. All of us who were around in the '90s have a sort of Generational Articulation, a Pervasive Style- a collective memory of Slalom- In the tiny discursive space of bike racing, and the even smaller family of Mtb racing, Slalom has a place that can not be ignored, nor should it be.

There is a whole gamut of possible gated racing events that exist out there, not just 4x or slalom. The permutations are endless, and must be explored.

But Slalom is holy

 

[gemini2k]

i raced DS at World Cups, no body gave a rats ass about it,

That's cause they build these dumbass DS tracks that are just 1-way pump tracks on a slope. Build a dual course with 40ft doubles and the like, and you'll have a crowd pleaser then. NOT THAT HARD.

 

[BC VAN]

We do not need subtraction or addition, we need consistent cross-appropriation and selective adaptation. Small bikes+ Gates+bike riders makes history. All of us who were around in the '90s have a sort of Generational Articulation, a Pervasive Style- a collective memory of Slalom- In the tiny discursive space of bike racing, and the even smaller family of Mtb racing, Slalom has a place that can not be ignored, nor should it be.

There is a whole gamut of possible gated racing events that exist out there, not just 4x or slalom. The permutations are endless, and must be explored.

But Slalom is holy

nice blog there, i am with ya on slalom in the 90's, but i think part of the allure was the sport as a whole competition wise was a lot stronger.....

How bout those Mt Snow or Traverse City Norba slalom races!

so fun with the crowd, pressure and atmosphere!

 

[SuspectDevice]

EC,
I totally agree with you. Think of all the excellent slalom racers (or potentially excellent ones) we have lost to freestyle. Think of the budget that someone like Redbull has for events... Think of the number of Redbull sponsored DH and freestyle riders that would need to show up if there were something along the lines of the Rebull Cola USopen of slalom. If it had a rampage-sized prizelist... The cheapness of digital cameras, camera booms and ziplines... The relatively low cost of DS course construction... The potential cross over of more boarder-cross racers, new geometry ideas+ old formats. We are doing it here on the Eastcoast already, and it changes lives... Slalom- A spiritual journey for perfection and against evil. Slalom=Jihad.

There is a whole generation of riders that have never dirt-surfed, exceeding maximum slip angles on hard durometer spikes on virgin grass. Think of the tension in the gate. The mind games. The drama between rounds.

We can, and will have everything we had in the '90's again, soon. And it will be better than ever. DS is mountainbiking. DS is totally accessible. A well built 4x course is beautifull, but even a bad DS course makes for good racing.

And racing, not spectacle is what makes the sport attractive to competitiors, who are, afterall, the people we are trying to serve with races... If we race it, we will love it, and the sport will grow, and everything will be right in the world...

 

[BC VAN]

That's cause they build these dumbass DS tracks that are just 1-way pump tracks on a slope. Build a dual course with 40ft doubles and the like, and you'll have a crowd pleaser then. NOT THAT HARD.

I built some decent size courses for the Jeep King Of the Mountain the last year they held it, not 40 ft peak to peak but definitely bigger, faster and more exciting then what has been offered up.

this was a nationally televised series with the biggest prize purse available, and the last year it was open for riders to qualify to the show, there was also free concerts after, guess what... no one showed up! and the series is gone!

we spent about 20 to 35 g on the course builds for those events!

it still didn't save the sport.

i also built big jumps for 4x, when that whole deal first came to be... it scared everyone away and it was watered down for the masses to be able to ride at Norba's.

my point being is the sport is i think all together different now, just going back to dual slalom as a format isn't going to create this mad rush of people coming back to the sport to race DS.

Just in our sport we have DH/ 4x/ DS/ XC/ Slope Style/ Dirt Jumping-Trails/ All Mountain/ Endurance XC.

i think those years when Dual Slalom was big were awesome because the state of racing was awesome... it has been so dissected as far as disciplines and with the emergence of x games/ gravity games and dew tours... there is a lot of competition from other types of activities. MTB in the 90's was a meteor, if you were lucky enough to see it and be a part of it then your stoked.

i love Slalom, it's fun and the racing is exciting no doubt.

 

[SuspectDevice]

Time and time again- we can't build a movement from the top down. Tires destroying grass roots, making ruts. Roots Ruts, FreeRacing (6 friends, some sticks, and grassy slope) That is the call heard across the land.... And it comes from the East.

Terraform SoCal into Pennsylvania. Seize the golf courses. Inject aggro into the epidural-style into every 15 year old with a v-brake hardtail.

Slalom is roots. And from broad roots spring great forests.

 

[BC VAN]

EC,
I totally agree with you. Think of all the excellent slalom racers (or potentially excellent ones) we have lost to freestyle. Think of the budget that someone like Redbull has for events... Think of the number of Redbull sponsored DH and freestyle riders that would need to show up if there were something along the lines of the Rebull Cola USopen of slalom. If it had a rampage-sized prizelist... The cheapness of digital cameras, camera booms and ziplines... The relatively low cost of DS course construction... The potential cross over of more boarder-cross racers, new geometry ideas+ old formats. We are doing it here on the Eastcoast already, and it changes lives... Slalom- A spiritual journey for perfection and against evil. Slalom=Jihad.

There is a whole generation of riders that have never dirt-surfed, exceeding maximum slip angles on hard durometer spikes on virgin grass. Think of the tension in the gate. The mind games. The drama between rounds.

We can, and will have everything we had in the '90's again, soon. And it will be better than ever. DS is mountainbiking. DS is totally accessible. A well built 4x course is beautifull, but even a bad DS course makes for good racing.

And racing, not spectacle is what makes the sport attractive to competitiors, who are, afterall, the people we are trying to serve with races... If we race it, we will love it, and the sport will grow, and everything will be right in the world...

i agree with all you are saying here from a person being in the sport, to us bike geeks, me included, that all means something, but it just don't think it conveys to the general public or even a big portion of the people who currently ride MTB's,

it is tough to top the feeling of carving those turns at Traverse city Michigan on rock hard spikes, probably on my all time top 5 feelings on a bike!.... dual slalom can be magical, that's why i liked your blog so much, i get it.

it truly feels like riding on velcro! and i think filming it with proper angles would be amazing... but i just think to a very small audience?

 

[BC VAN]

Time and time again- we can't build a movement from the top down. Tires destroying grass roots, making ruts. Roots Ruts, FreeRacing (6 friends, some sticks, and grassy slope) That is the call heard across the land.... And it comes from the East.

Terraform SoCal into Pennsylvania. Seize the golf courses. Inject aggro into the epidural-style into every 15 year old with a v-brake hardtail.

Slalom is roots. And from broad roots spring great forests.

I hope your right, really i do, but the Problem is these kids are chasing dreams of $, fame and ladies in foam pit's across the globe.

Our sport and society is pushing in another direction.

and to think i wanted to have all threads of 4x vs DS get shut down

ha ha ha

at least this is all positive.

 

[IH8Rice]

How bout those Mt Snow or Traverse City Norba slalom races!

so fun with the crowd, pressure and atmosphere!

those were great days racing at Mt Snow, but the whole racing scene has changed dramatically over the years. the Nationals at Mt Snow last year was boring. back in the day when Norba was still alive, the whole event was amazing....tons of things to do, more events and more importantly, more athletes.

 

[BC VAN]

those were great days racing at Mt Snow, but the whole racing scene has changed dramatically over the years. the Nationals at Mt Snow last year was boring. back in the day when Norba was still alive, the whole event was amazing....tons of things to do, more events and more importantly, more athletes.

its one of the reasons i have started doing more all mountain type of events like ashland 12 mile dh/ downieville/ and mega the atmosphere is fresh and doesn't feel like a bunch of riders trying to keep something going that has run its course. i still have fun with traditional events... but its hard on a national level after being involved in the 90's

i was really bummed to see the state of the naked crit a couple of years ago.

 

[SuspectDevice]

Our society, and our sport are both clearly unhealthy. Very.

All of us who make our living off of bikes need to continue to eat, have heat, etc- but it's clear that if some things stay on their current course, and reality-televison becomes reality, news becomes rss feeds and tweets, and marketing becomes progressively more viral, the only way we call all affect things at all is one thing that can not be commodified- passion.

We all need to regestalt the spaces in which we live. Great fortunes are worthless without things to spend them on. Some of us are still alive that were deeply enriched by slalom of the past. We don't need to necessarily focus on short-term financial gains, because the short-term payoff, in terms of sheer pleasure will be so overwhelming and so infectious that a groundswell of support will soon asphyixate all the old voices, and slalom will be born anew.

It does not matter what all the wannabe rockstar poseur groms think about slalom, or what participation looks like at current big race venues- as far as slalom is concerned, those things are dead. We don't need them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Tu9Rx9g8Mn4&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Tu9Rx9g8Mn4&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Gated MTB racing is the real Bicycle Motorcross. We have bikes that are whole lot better than Stingrays too. And people who are passionate about things, even if an "industry" doesn't exist for it can build something special.