The garage frame building journey
- Thread starter sikocycles
- Start date
That cobra bender is next on my list after a heater for my garage. Way too cold in there right now
Haha, I have tiny heater and a ratty down jacket covered in epoxy from snowboard building.
I was surprised it struggled a tiny bit with the 38mm X .9mm tube. 34.9 was fine.
I am so close to buying one but it seems silly since I now have bent tubes for the next 3 frames.
Here you can see how the bent 34.9 mm seat tube will help me get rid of that butt weld by the main pivot.
Btw, the 38mm die is only 30* degrees or so max and I would’ve needed maybe 10* more on the DT. It will work out fine but I have to run a shorter piggyback shock or less travel. Also, I might have 3 bent tubes that are too short. Oh well, learning by doing!
His welds are looking so nice! I learned a lot yesterday.
If anyone wants a custom frame tell Nico I sent you. He made a beautiful little slopeduro frame for a mutual friend who will be shooting a video soon on it. I’ll post it when it’s done.
He told me to use the stainless rod I have no worries. He also had a few other rods I haven’t heard of. Very knowledgeable guy on all this stuff.
He knows me as Ben and not Buckow if you talk to him. 6 month waiting list currently.
These welds of his were looking very nice! Every time I go there he is so much better than the last time. Cool to see.
Accueil - Lambert Cycles
www.lambert-cycles.ch
Oliver is other friend around here who builds frames and answers my questions. He makes beautiful stuff too! I used to ride a bunch in Bex, Switzerland with both of them 15 years ago. That’s why they help me and let me hang out in their shops.
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can't figure out how to link insta, b/c i'm a boomer, i guess, but check out corbin mcdonald - local guy who's building up a custom dh rig that neko apparently helped design.
Oh sweet! That looks like a cool project. I love seeing how other people do stuff.
I mitered, tacked and welded on a downtube and a top tube yesterday. Things went smoothly except for the 5 or 6 holes I blew and had to plug up. I might have been overconfident or too hot or bad torch angle? Learning by doing I guess. I see progress so that’s cool.
Here’s what I got done. Pedal at 40 amps. I think I am missing something on the pulse settings or my welder doesn’t go that slow on the pulses per second? I don’t know but I like that I “feel” like I am less lost on this welding business….
@sikocycles Thanks so much for the Weldmold tig rod recommendation!!! That stuff is so much easier better than what I was using. It makes a world of difference! I should try a 1.6 blue electrode now, haha. It is probably also way easier!
Killing it my friend. No problem. We are all here to help. I will work on my frame tomorrow
Cool! I’m looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
A welder/mechanic buddy is coming over today to give me some tips on the tig. I’m hoping he knows a thing or two about the pulse settings. Although, practice looks to be the biggest secret, haha.
Are you using a 1.6mm blue electrode? Maybe that’s why I am too hot? The 2.4 is what I am using and I don’t know what color code they are. Suboptimal I guess on that one…
I am using 2% Lanthannated 1/16” electrodes. They are blue
@sikocycles Ok, thanks. Do you use the thinner 1.6mm ones? I need to downsize I think. I had a few too many holes a blowin yesterday with the 2.4mm ones I have.
I managed to finish my front triangle yesterday. Cable guides, dt gusset and lower shock mount were the last things to do. Some welds were pretty good and others not so good…. There is definitely some progress though so I am very happy with this one.
Here are some photos.
I managed to finish my front triangle yesterday. Cable guides, dt gusset and lower shock mount were the last things to do. Some welds were pretty good and others not so good…. There is definitely some progress though so I am very happy with this one.
Here are some photos.
Awesome work. Getting much better. As much practice you can do it’s nothing like welding a frame. Trying to get the right angles. These are the ones I use.
TIG Welding Tungsten Electrodes 2% Lanthanated (Blue, WL20) 10-Pack (1/16") https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013KZ042A/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_87MHMSCV766EZDFN9P29?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
TIG Welding Tungsten Electrodes 2% Lanthanated (Blue, WL20) 10-Pack (1/16") https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013KZ042A/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_87MHMSCV766EZDFN9P29?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Are you going to gusset the seat tube top tube junction? There will be a lot of leverage there.
Great job, I need to get my ass in gear. Finish the grave and start the MTB. EWR copy with modern geo.
Great job, I need to get my ass in gear. Finish the grave and start the MTB. EWR copy with modern geo.
Saw Jay DeJesus and partner rocking some about 10 years ago at Kingdom Trails. Always loved the look of those bikes. And Jay’s columns thought me some bike skills back in the day. Most memorable was the bump bunny hop.
I think I might be addicted to this….
Bent lower Seat tube looks much nicer I think. Should be a lot stronger as well being that the two pivots are trying to spread apart. If I can avoid having to trust a butt weld of mine pulling apart I think that is a good thing. I turned down the hole saws on the lathe to get a lot tighter miters.
This was the second attempt at mitering the lower seat tube. The first one didn’t line up at all and I had to rethink the order of the cuts. Getting 3 miters in the right spots is a lot more difficult that 2.
Bent lower Seat tube looks much nicer I think. Should be a lot stronger as well being that the two pivots are trying to spread apart. If I can avoid having to trust a butt weld of mine pulling apart I think that is a good thing. I turned down the hole saws on the lathe to get a lot tighter miters.
This was the second attempt at mitering the lower seat tube. The first one didn’t line up at all and I had to rethink the order of the cuts. Getting 3 miters in the right spots is a lot more difficult that 2.
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IMO, that looks like a substantial improvement. Looks really nice aesthetically as well.
There are likely a few good ways you could triangulate the upper seat tube/ top tube junction. Are you hesitant that the heat would contract the nice fit around the seat post?
I like the look on my chameleon hardtail.
There are likely a few good ways you could triangulate the upper seat tube/ top tube junction. Are you hesitant that the heat would contract the nice fit around the seat post?
I like the look on my chameleon hardtail.
Thanks!
I have reamers for the seat tube to clean up the inside after welding so it’s not that really. I am hesitant for a couple reasons about the seat tube gusset…. Here are some of the ideas kicking around.
I can always add one later.
I think I will see some deformation in the top tube before it really lets go.
Don’t want to create a stress riser on the top tube with a perpendicular weld at the bottom of gusset but I like the look of the one like your photo.
The 200mm Fox Dropper is fully supported all the way to the bottom of the seat tube.
TT and ST are .9mm thick 4130 cromo which is thicker than most steel frames which are .8mm or .7mm depending on the tube set. Maybe it’s strong enough?
Sometimes flex and letting it do it’s thing is better than stiffening with gussets creating stress risers.
I kinda like the look without one?
If I raise the top tube to sit on the weld of the seat tube insert I wouldn’t need one.
Maybe I’ll do some small decorative gusset plates on the sides?
When I put on a gusset on it’s over and for whatever reason I find myself in no hurry to put one on? It is winter here and I am not riding this bike for a month at least.
That’s some of it and I also spoke with a few engineers and frame builders and it looks like there are arguments for with and without a gusset which was surprising. I thought I had to have a gusset there and some people are saying it would probably be fine without. Maybe I’ll put one on or not. I haven’t decided yet…. I like thinking about the shape and how I would make it.
I was watching this last night and thought of this thread.
Skip to about 5:00.
He uses a company to laser cut the tubing before welding himself. Granted, the tolerances that he's dealing with are not as tight as on a halfway decent bike frame and I'm sure the service isn't inexpensive, but wondering if outsourcing the tube cutting/bending could be a way of getting around one of the challenging parts of a frame build.
Plus that guy's videos are great.
Skip to about 5:00.
He uses a company to laser cut the tubing before welding himself. Granted, the tolerances that he's dealing with are not as tight as on a halfway decent bike frame and I'm sure the service isn't inexpensive, but wondering if outsourcing the tube cutting/bending could be a way of getting around one of the challenging parts of a frame build.
Plus that guy's videos are great.
I spent some time on my seat tube last night. I went a little lug style crazy on the seat clamp but I like it. Brazing would be cool for this.
I am still blowing holes on occasion but I think I understand a little more so hopefully that becomes less of an issue. The bent lower portion of the seat tube assembly looks so much nicer than the butt welded version. Here‘s how far I got.
I am still blowing holes on occasion but I think I understand a little more so hopefully that becomes less of an issue. The bent lower portion of the seat tube assembly looks so much nicer than the butt welded version. Here‘s how far I got.
Some pics of the making the seat post clamp. I need to make the slit a little wider. I’ve never tried a slitting saw before and just used a disc grinder in the past only because it’s fast. The slitting saw is a lot more precise!
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Sick. Really stepping it up. I need get off my ass and finish my gravel and start the mountain bike
Hey guys,
Im going to take this thing for some singletrack cog train shuttles later today and swap the argon bottle at the welding shop along the way.
I got a couple things that made everything so much easier…. and most of those were at your suggestion like a good welding helmet or the weldmold filler rod! I ordered a CK Trimline torch with Fupa 12 cups. A smaller and lighter torch with more flexible cable seems like it could also make things that much easier. I think I will have to get creative with adapters at the local industrial hose shop. 16x1.5 to 3/8 bsp should be doable.
Current status when I ran out of gas.
Here you can see some seat tube evolution between #3 & #4
#4
#3
Progress pics on the next front triangle. This one will be shorter travel and a degree steeper headtube. I haven’t decided yet if I raise the bb a hair so I can run softer rear suspension. Considering 350mm with a lower spring rate and a lot of damping.…. Nerding out.
I still have a lot to learn but I see progress so it is motivating!
Im going to take this thing for some singletrack cog train shuttles later today and swap the argon bottle at the welding shop along the way.
Thanks man. I am still making plenty of mistakes but Im getting better at hiding them, haha. It’s winter in a ski resort here and the snow is not so good so I am making the best of it ! If it were snowing more often then I would have no time for framebuilding. Pretty cool to have a sweet backup plan!
I got a couple things that made everything so much easier…. and most of those were at your suggestion like a good welding helmet or the weldmold filler rod! I ordered a CK Trimline torch with Fupa 12 cups. A smaller and lighter torch with more flexible cable seems like it could also make things that much easier. I think I will have to get creative with adapters at the local industrial hose shop. 16x1.5 to 3/8 bsp should be doable.
Current status when I ran out of gas.
Here you can see some seat tube evolution between #3 & #4
#4
#3
Progress pics on the next front triangle. This one will be shorter travel and a degree steeper headtube. I haven’t decided yet if I raise the bb a hair so I can run softer rear suspension. Considering 350mm with a lower spring rate and a lot of damping.…. Nerding out.
I still have a lot to learn but I see progress so it is motivating!
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My house is at 1000 meters and yeah it has been a dry January. The groomers and park are good but I can only do so much of that before my back gives out. However, today is a powder day! It’s supposed to snow for the next few days and there’s already enough to send it and have a good time.
Good to see your progress. I should be practicing my tig-skills, but it's too cold in my shed, so decided to work on the jig design. Heavily infuenced by Konga’s design. If you have any suggestions for improvement please let me know.
Idea is simple setup: x and y coordinates, angles by digital angle gauge. And simple manufacturing (I have no lathe or mill), so intend to have the parts waterjet cut from 15 mm aluminium. The design does allow for some finetuning and incorporates notches so using a line laser the straightness can be checked and if required, adjusted.
Idea is simple setup: x and y coordinates, angles by digital angle gauge. And simple manufacturing (I have no lathe or mill), so intend to have the parts waterjet cut from 15 mm aluminium. The design does allow for some finetuning and incorporates notches so using a line laser the straightness can be checked and if required, adjusted.
2x72 belt grinder build. Need vfd and motor still. Should have it finished up this coming week.
Messed up my seat stays. Waiting for new ones to come in so I can finish my gravel frame.
start the hardtail next week. Need it for summer.
Messed up my seat stays. Waiting for new ones to come in so I can finish my gravel frame.
start the hardtail next week. Need it for summer.
@Mave Thanks man. Long answer…. No, for now, I like the mix of ultra light and precise handling of the carbon rear end with the compliance of steel. I like the Gambler and it has all the numbers I want and I have a spare rear end. It can do 140-200 of rear travel in a range of leverage ratios that I like and have experience with. I couldn’t do better in steel and I would have to make a way better jig to have any clue what I am making.
This is a very easy way for me to play with parameters (like leverage ratio, seat angle, reach, head angle, bb height) while keeping the important ones fixed (Anti squat, pedal kickback, anti rise) It is fun like that as well because I am incrementally changing something I really like to adapt it to other uses. It is cheating and makes all this way easier on me. Maybe I will do a high pivot version by rotating the rear end and a throttle ebike with a split top tube. That will probably be the next challenge before making a rear end.
Oh yeah, a bb concentric short travel play bike with bmx cranks and dual bb bearings for the main pivot similar to the Doberman le Pink or Specialized P slope but with geometry for the woods. Like an aggressive hard tail but soft. That could be the first steel rear end. I don’t really have a plan and enjoy the process of building these as well as the idea of a dream quiver.
@sikocycles That looks like it is going to be solid. Are you going to make a stand for it? I have mine too high on my workbench. I need to make a stand for it to get it lower. The 3M ceramic belts are lasting a long time for me by the way.
You guys know anything about VFDs? I have a VFD that I want to hook to my lathe. It is for a 3hp motor and the lathe motor is less than that. Can I just hook it straight up or is there any programming or anything fancy I should do? Any info helps because if left to my own I will hook it up and see if I smell any smoke. It should be fine right? It just cuts the colts so the motor spins slower? I should be ok? Haha, thanks for the help!
My welds are coming along. I am definitely learning and progressing but sometimes the shaky hole blowing hand comes out and we’re fucked! I should learn to stop and take a break when the Ol´ shaky hand comes round…
Still not pulsing but I know I need to figure that out. The flickering light plays with my eyes and I feel like I can’t see the puddle very well with pulse. Also, my pulse is veryfast compared to my friends with Fronius, Miller and Lincoln welders. Their machines are a lot more expensive than mine so that is probably normal.
Here’s some pics.
I am considering bending the top tube at the st junction rather than a gusset on the next frame. This one will get a gusset. I wouldn’t think I would want more bends but I think I might try it out. My justification for more is learning how to fab and my wife and I need moar bikes, ha.
This is a very easy way for me to play with parameters (like leverage ratio, seat angle, reach, head angle, bb height) while keeping the important ones fixed (Anti squat, pedal kickback, anti rise) It is fun like that as well because I am incrementally changing something I really like to adapt it to other uses. It is cheating and makes all this way easier on me. Maybe I will do a high pivot version by rotating the rear end and a throttle ebike with a split top tube. That will probably be the next challenge before making a rear end.
Oh yeah, a bb concentric short travel play bike with bmx cranks and dual bb bearings for the main pivot similar to the Doberman le Pink or Specialized P slope but with geometry for the woods. Like an aggressive hard tail but soft. That could be the first steel rear end. I don’t really have a plan and enjoy the process of building these as well as the idea of a dream quiver.
@sikocycles That looks like it is going to be solid. Are you going to make a stand for it? I have mine too high on my workbench. I need to make a stand for it to get it lower. The 3M ceramic belts are lasting a long time for me by the way.
You guys know anything about VFDs? I have a VFD that I want to hook to my lathe. It is for a 3hp motor and the lathe motor is less than that. Can I just hook it straight up or is there any programming or anything fancy I should do? Any info helps because if left to my own I will hook it up and see if I smell any smoke. It should be fine right? It just cuts the colts so the motor spins slower? I should be ok? Haha, thanks for the help!
My welds are coming along. I am definitely learning and progressing but sometimes the shaky hole blowing hand comes out and we’re fucked! I should learn to stop and take a break when the Ol´ shaky hand comes round…
Still not pulsing but I know I need to figure that out. The flickering light plays with my eyes and I feel like I can’t see the puddle very well with pulse. Also, my pulse is veryfast compared to my friends with Fronius, Miller and Lincoln welders. Their machines are a lot more expensive than mine so that is probably normal.
Here’s some pics.
I am considering bending the top tube at the st junction rather than a gusset on the next frame. This one will get a gusset. I wouldn’t think I would want more bends but I think I might try it out. My justification for more is learning how to fab and my wife and I need moar bikes, ha.
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Looks much better with the bent tube. Once I finish my MTB I want to try a fully.
Yeah, I think so too. What do you think about bending the top tube to try and avoid a seat tube gusset? If the top tube is welded to the thick walled seat clamp insert then I think it wouldn’t need a gusset because of wall thickness. It could look clean but then every tube has a bend and I thought I liked straight tubes.
This one is done! Plenty of mistakes were made but less than the one before… more or less…
I left the top tube/gusset topside un-welded thinking that there would be less of a stress riser if I keep the forces on the sides of the tube? I dunno, it made sense at the time. I like the mix of road bike seat clamp style with a freeride gusset. 2 worlds apart.
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You fucking people are making me want a larger shop which will require a larger property which will require moving which will require a job change which will probably mean a pay cut so I can't afford a larger shop or tools to fill it.
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I will do a steel frame front GG Gnarvana since I have the shock and seatstays.
just need the chainstays and hardware kit.
then draw it up.
just need the chainstays and hardware kit.
then draw it up.
That’s a good idea. The seat tube is straight and the pivots are both very close so the construction would be pretty straight forward. And they sell rear ends!