Cool. Any conversations with Metz etc? Could be a good collaboration...
Great to hear the water's back on! Hope the sewage is working too.
the gearbox thread
- Thread starter xy9ine
- Start date
Great to hear the water's back on! Hope the sewage is working too.
36.5 lbs (Vivid Air)
8" travel
16" CS
13.6" BB (Lowest Setting)
65.5* (Lowest Setting)
Basically a long travel trail bike that jumps well due to the short chain stays. Also does switch backs well too. By keeping the chain stays short and cockpit short you can get away with a slack head angle for stability without creating a long wheel base. Kind of a best of both worlds thing and I think it is a great combination and we may even start to see more bikes with this kind of geometry. Kona Entourage is one example and there may be others, not sure. I stopped researching and coveting mainstream bikes when Turner failed to produce the new RFX and since I got involved in this project.
Yeah. Richie is good friends with Rob so I'm sure there was plenty of discussions. Rob's Zerode bike looks pretty nice and I'm looking forward to a trail version of the bike should that happen. I'd like us to keep evolving this design and working with carbon, but if and when everyone moves on to other things and I'm looking for a new bike, a trail Zerode would definitely be a nice option in the future.
No to sewers. Portaloo a few doors down though. Given the coldest part of winter is approaching I hope they sort it out soon and that the earthquakes stop of course.
As the first bike with a "floating gearbox", the "IPE" bike was unveilled at the IFMA bike show, Cologne 2003 (the former IFMA = Internationale Fahrrad- und Motorrad-Ausstellung is now called INTERMOT = Internationale Motorrad-, Roller- und Fahrrad-Messe). This concept bike has a ROHLOFF SpeedHub 500/14 which is part of the rear swingarm, the pivot is located around the BB. The "IPE" bike was a R&D project of the Chair of "Integrierte Produktentwicklung" (= integrated product development) of the Otto von GUERICKE University Magdeburg/Germany (further reading: 1,2,3). It didn´t make it into production.
Certainly, "floating gearbox"-wise I would prefer pipe´s resp. Richard´s KKK* bike over the IPE bike.
KKK = "K"razy, "K"reative "K"IWIs
Very impressive!
The finish is very good, was the front end made in one piece or is it separate pieces bonded together?
Pipe, that thing is damn fine! How far does the gearbox move?
Yep, the Millyard Racing is similar to that one too. But the difference is that in this case the primary chain has some influence in the % of Anti-Squat.As the first bike with a "floating gearbox", the "IPE" bike was unveilled at the IFMA bike show, Cologne 2003 (the former IFMA = Internationale Fahrrad- und Motorrad-Ausstellung is now called INTERMOT = Internationale Motorrad-, Roller- und Fahrrad-Messe). This concept bike has a ROHLOFF SpeedHub 500/14 which is part of the rear swingarm, the pivot is located around the BB. The "IPE" bike was a R&D project of the Chair of "Integrierte Produktentwicklung" (= integrated product development) of the Otto von GUERICKE University Magdeburg/Germany (further reading: 1,2,3). It didn´t make it into production.
Front triangle is made in one piece using a bladder and egg style mold. Rear triangle is 3 pieces (Center piece and then capped either side) but they have done such an awesome job at ASP you would think it was one piece in both looks and strength.
Gearbox moves bugger all as it is relatively close to the pivot point.
Yep Richies design for the win. Doesn't hurt that it is carbon either for added style points. And it's not easy fitting a gearbox, 2 chains, main pivot and shock all in such a confined space. Oh, and all this with short chain stays and an uninterrupted seat post. Pretty damn fine.
Gearbox moves bugger all as it is relatively close to the pivot point.
Yep Richies design for the win. Doesn't hurt that it is carbon either for added style points. And it's not easy fitting a gearbox, 2 chains, main pivot and shock all in such a confined space. Oh, and all this with short chain stays and an uninterrupted seat post. Pretty damn fine.
Pipe, do you think you could show us some detailed pictures of the swingarm and gearbox area?
Yep. I'll try and take some more pics tomorrow.
Pics as promised. Hub plates are looking a bit worse for wear already but will soon be replaced with some nice shiny carbons ones.
Attachments
That thing is a work of art, love it! Wish I had the skills to even attempt something like that!
sweet pics, thank you. I like the chain tubes also, I have thought of doing that if I were to make a bike, will keep most mud off the chain.
yesterday I threw a nice whip but when I landed the chain got caught and ripped my der off. I did this about 9months ago same jump. aarrrggg. if I had the money I would have an internal gear bike of some sort.
yesterday I threw a nice whip but when I landed the chain got caught and ripped my der off. I did this about 9months ago same jump. aarrrggg. if I had the money I would have an internal gear bike of some sort.
what are you using to cure the carbon? what did you make your mould out of?
The tubes do help keep the mud off but are mainly to muffle the chain and protect the swing arm and my foot. This way you can also run the chain reasonably loose without any clanging.
I can't help but think a belt drive here would work pretty sweet as long as it doesn't add any width to the gear box mounting because it is already about as wide as you'd want to go for leg clearance.
The moulds are made out of MDF. Aluminium would of course be preferable but this is a low cost small run project and that would be cost prohibitive.
And again due to cost constraints we were unable to utilize an autoclave or anything fancy like that for the curing process. Instead we rely on the pressure from the bladder and heat. I think I have that right but if you need more detail PM me and I'll give you my brother's email address.
My bet would be it is just a wet layup. Those shapes are pretty complex to get vacuum infusion working right.
Looks great.
can you get a strong frame from using a wet layup system?
Absolutely! Pre preg simply guarantees your optimum resin mix. It can be easier to work with as well as it forms itself in the mould better.
But to use pre preg you need an autoclave. $$$$
Infusion is simply a wet layup but the vacuum is sucking in your resin. It is not really feasible on complex shapes for 2 reasons, 1) keeping dry cloth in place would be hard, 2) getting the resin to disperse evenly would be hard. Not saying it couldn't be done, but why bother?
Your pre pregs usually have a higher HDT But unless you keep your bike in the oven this is hardly an issue with wet layup.
Pre preg doesn't waste as much either (resin) and you can get your wet layup too soaked. ( a plus for mass production) But if you vacuum bag correctly and use plenty of absorbant material then you should be all good
Remember the strength is in the cloth too. Not just the resin. Not just the type of cloth, but its weave, effects strength, which is why I use Unidirectional in my stuff.
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The swingarm is infused in three pieces. The front triangle is a one piece wet layup. Carbon inserts made using aluminium mandrels are glued into the headtube, bb, main pivot, and seat tube. Seems strong enough so far but only time will tell. This one is pretty light though so it can easily put on some strategic beef without compromising the build weight too much.
Pipe what type of vacuum pump did you use mate? I am having trouble finding something reliable and would be interested to know if thats ok? Interesting you infused the swingarm too.
If you dont mind me asking, did you have a bladder made up especially for the task?
I used a Busch vacuum pump at uni for vacuum resin infusion but I think it was pretty exxy. I managed to get it through a sponsorship deal. I'm pretty sure it could have done a small yacht.
Thanks Jez, Like you said though, I would have to sell my island to pay for them.
BTW when is the Jezken carbon making an appearance?
I'm working seriously on it at the moment - had a bit of a break since late last year...I'm up on the Gold Coast now I'd interested in having a chat/going for a ride sometime?Thanks Jez, Like you said though, I would have to sell my island to pay for them.
BTW when is the Jezken carbon making an appearance?
Not that I don't like the technical carbon discussion but noticed the rear brake line routing. Do you have the going internal in the front triangle? Little details of this frame are blowing my mind. Also, not sure how much force is on that little pulley wheel (possibly not much as the main force will be on the forward half) but in talking with the Canfield Brothers, they had to use a titanium roller to keep it from being chewed up too quickly.
I think you have managed to impress us a lot of us with that bike.
I think you have managed to impress us a lot of us with that bike.
Pipe, saw that yellow beastie in vegas over the summer, that is one hard core looking ride. Nice work on the carbon job. Great to see some more innovation coming out of down under.
Mr Plow:
I've asked the question and will get back to you re the pump.
LMC:
Yes. Custom latex bladder was made for the front triangle by painting latex on a foam core and then dissolving the core. Richie and I played around with trying to make a bladder with bike tubes but it was pretty disastrous so ASP made the bladders out of latex which worked out really well.
aenema:
No, it's not internal. Fits nicely under the main pivot and then along next to the down tube with the shifter cable. Very little growth through this route so works pretty well.
I assume you are talking about the chain tensioner when you are referring to the pulley wheel. There is not much force on that at all. It's just a tensioner so the spring that is pulling it forward is the only force on it which is just enough to stop the chain from coming off.
Demomonkey:
I have to admit I like the carbon finish better but the yellow is a head turner for sure. A car enthusiast told me recently that anything with a nice carbon finish is 20% heavier than it needs to be. Not sure how true that is but I'll take the carbon finish anyway.
Speaking of innovation, once I work out how to host some photos somewhere (My RM space has run out), I'll post up some pics of the geometry adjust mech that we like to call the JerkOff. It adds a mere 100g to the build and makes riding up hills almost pleasant. It's another Richie marvel to behold.
I've asked the question and will get back to you re the pump.
LMC:
Yes. Custom latex bladder was made for the front triangle by painting latex on a foam core and then dissolving the core. Richie and I played around with trying to make a bladder with bike tubes but it was pretty disastrous so ASP made the bladders out of latex which worked out really well.
aenema:
No, it's not internal. Fits nicely under the main pivot and then along next to the down tube with the shifter cable. Very little growth through this route so works pretty well.
I assume you are talking about the chain tensioner when you are referring to the pulley wheel. There is not much force on that at all. It's just a tensioner so the spring that is pulling it forward is the only force on it which is just enough to stop the chain from coming off.
Demomonkey:
I have to admit I like the carbon finish better but the yellow is a head turner for sure. A car enthusiast told me recently that anything with a nice carbon finish is 20% heavier than it needs to be. Not sure how true that is but I'll take the carbon finish anyway.
Speaking of innovation, once I work out how to host some photos somewhere (My RM space has run out), I'll post up some pics of the geometry adjust mech that we like to call the JerkOff. It adds a mere 100g to the build and makes riding up hills almost pleasant. It's another Richie marvel to behold.
Thanks pipe! I like your latex bladder idea ! I thought I was pretty smart when I made mine the same way boy did it take ages to lay up though. Did yours? I painted mine on with a brush. Never again! Are you using 200gsm ? What resin? Did you use propper infusion hardware lines etc? Or cobble your own?
boy did it take ages to lay up though. Did yours? I painted mine on with a brush. Never again! Are you using 200gsm ? What resin? Did you use propper infusion hardware lines etc? Or cobble your own?It was never going to be too difficult but you've exceeded my knowledge of the process. I do have this from my brother at ASP though regarding the infusion and bladder layup:Thanks pipe! I like your latex bladder idea ! I thought I was pretty smart when I made mine the same way
Vacuum pump is a Busch
It's oil sealed
Capable of going down to 3mb
21 cubic metres/hr
Used for infusion of swingarm
Front triangle wet laminated bladder moulded
70psi
cool! thanks pipe!
Richie is the original Mad Professor. Eccentric barely covers it.
If you are mounting caliper, that is designed to be mounted onto left side, onto right side, you'd better do it this way because this way it's a symmetrical image of left side and you don't have to do any other changes.
As fluider says it is the easiest and most obvious way to mount a caliper that is designed for the left hand side. You can mount it on top as long as the caliper has an adjustable banjo so you can change the way the brake line exits the caliper. But it would not look as tidy as the current implementation. If rock strike ever becomes an issue on top will be the backup plan. Richie has been running the brake like this for over a year on some pretty rocky trails and has not had any significant issues.
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the new frame from jürgen schlender (alutech owner) see @ Eurobike 31.08.2011--03.09.2011 Hall A2, Booth 207.
http://website.alutech-bikes.de/shopnews.php?news_id=27&XTCsid=09c3b1c8be50c9374bf44bc78bfc8460
tfj77
oooh I forgot the rohloff trigger for the gboxx1:
http://www.mittelmeyer.de/Fahrradteile/DSG-Rohloff/dsg-rohloff.htm
http://website.alutech-bikes.de/shopnews.php?news_id=27&XTCsid=09c3b1c8be50c9374bf44bc78bfc8460
tfj77
oooh I forgot the rohloff trigger for the gboxx1:
http://www.mittelmeyer.de/Fahrradteile/DSG-Rohloff/dsg-rohloff.htm
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