He stated his opinion, I stated mine, both of which are OPINIONS based on our own observations. You can disagree all you want, but why is it necessary to simply make stupid personal comments?would that be the page for the illiterate?
He stated his opinion, I stated mine, both of which are OPINIONS based on our own observations. You can disagree all you want, but why is it necessary to simply make stupid personal comments?would that be the page for the illiterate?
since when is a question suddenly a comment? but maybe you've just answered my original questionHe stated his opinion, I stated mine, both of which are OPINIONS based on our own observations. You can disagree all you want, but why is it necessary to simply make stupid personal comments?
True that nobody has mentioned that, false that nobody has used a gas (air) spring or damping before - everyone and their dog has done air springs, and iirc Bionicon uses gas damping. RST used to and I think Cane Creek also did, and it's not exactly a new idea in any sense anyway. Sure, these guys might have come up with a way to combine the spring and the damping or something, and I stand open to being proven wrong, maybe it is the greatest thing since agriculture, but I doubt it based on the kind of vague crap one of the Millyards was telling me. This is my own impression, like I said, maybe that guy just has the same name but did none of the design work, but the fact that they "point out that the three-point linkage is correct in engineering terms" according to dirt really reinforces my belief that they don't actually know what they're on about. Dirt either don't know any better and just regurgitate what they're told, or they just suck up to whoever they're talking to at the time.i read through all the nitrogen shock nostalgia and no one seemed to point out that using nitrogen to pressurize the resevoir is completely different from using nitrogen as the actual spring. to my knowledge, this is not something that has been done by anyone in the bike industry before. If i read it correctly the millyard shock uses nitrogen to control everything; spring, damping, etc . . . certainly seems unique.
the original application was for use in tank suspension.
Are you naturally an absolute dick or have you been practising?since when is a question suddenly a comment? but maybe you've just answered my original question
Bah, it's ok, he reminds me of Transcend before he became a mod.Are you naturally an absolute dick or have you been practising?
Not a comment, just a question...
I love you too, man. :beerjam:Bah, it's ok, he reminds me of Transcend before he became a mod.
I feel like years ago i heard the reason nitrogen was used is because it had limited interaction with the oil in shocks (I feel like someone told me it keeps the oil from bubbling or foaming or something like that).The old faithful Fox Vanilla RC used nitrogen.
I don't see what the advantage of using Nitrogen is really. All you need is a gas to pressurize the oil.
But I think the Millyard was using Nitrogen as the damping medium rather than oil. I think....
Are you naturally an absolute dick or have you been practising?
Not a comment, just a question...
edit: I don't know you or have anything against you personally. Just a polite request - don't be a dick to people just because you disagree with them.
Yeah, but Fraser is still a dick though, mod or not.Bah, it's ok, he reminds me of Transcend before he became a mod.
Yeah but the gas shouldn't be getting anywhere near the oil, so I can't see what the point of the Nitrogen is. Im talking as a pressurizing gas here.I feel like years ago i heard the reason nitrogen was used is because it had limited interaction with the oil in shocks (I feel like someone told me it keeps the oil from bubbling or foaming or something like that).
again, not sure because I seriously think I heard this in like 1996 when I had a fox vanilla r on my foes weasle.
sounds right to me.Yeah but the gas shouldn't be getting anywhere near the oil, so I can't see what the point of the Nitrogen is. Im talking as a pressurizing gas here.
As a damping medium, wouldn't it act just as oil? You would just have to have smaller orifices to compensate for the viscosity of the dense (compressed) gas?
It ""looks"" like the swingarm pivots around the bb on massive bearings.Not to get in the way of anyone's flame war, but I don't understand the reasoning behind the one swingarm. Wouldn't you need to built it up beeftastic so it wouldn't flex? Wouldn't the bike be unbalanced after that?
You forgot that nitrogen is dry. Thats probably the biggest reason.Several benefits to this that I understand.
- nitrogen is a larger molecule and therefore doesn't leak like air as quickly.
- nitrogen is less affected by air pressures (elevation changes etc)
- nitrogen doesn't heat up as readily.
.
what I gathered from the article was the nitrogen was charged to be both compression and rebound control and independently responsive to force changes. The way I read it and I could be waaaay off was a shock that reacted to bump forces with different rebound and compression dampening. I don't know of any shock out there that does that. Granted you can change your end of stroke compression etc but not this way.
In regards to nitrogen shocks, that is nothing new, like it has been said old vanilla's used nitrogen and the push rebuild on the roco charges the reservoir with nitrogen as opposed to air.
Several benefits to this that I understand.
- nitrogen is a larger molecule and therefore doesn't leak like air as quickly.
- nitrogen is less affected by air pressures (elevation changes etc)
- nitrogen doesn't heat up as readily.
All these add up to more consistent and therefore tuneable suspension.
In regards to the millyard shock, I think it is using all that and more.
Englund brought out a damper cartridge that worked with air a few years back and as others have mentioned the idea is already being used by other manufacturers.So if I'm to get this correct, nitrogen can be used not only for a spring, and to pressurize the oil... but could potentially be used to replace the oil in the compression and rebound controls with legit consistancy and performance?
That means you could possibly build a nitro shock with no spring and no oil (other than lubrication and seals)? Plus you'd be less prone to seal leakage because the molecule is large and stable. Talk about saving a few grams! If the performance aspect of this could be dialed in, that could be huge.
That means you could possibly build a nitro shock with no spring and no oil (other than lubrication and seals)? Plus you'd be less prone to seal leakage and pressure changes because the molecule is large and stable.
I have nothing to add to this thread, other than pointing out that a Nitrogen molecule is significantly smaller than an oil molecule.
That was more in referance to the air spring than the dampening. I've gotten tons of air shocks "stuck down" on my short travel from burping the pos/neg air seal, and hear it is a common problem with Boxxer WCs.However, what you say about sealing doesn't make sense. Nitrogen is inevitably going to be harder to seal in than oil.
Again, that was in comparison to air. As far as oil replacement goes: use a significantly smaller valve/port/hole what ever you call it. As long as the pressure has an easy place to escape and the valve requires less pressure than the seal then I wouldn't imaging you'd blow it.I have nothing to add to this thread, other than pointing out that a Nitrogen molecule is significantly smaller than an oil molecule.
Right, which is why it is "lighter than air"... because it's less dense. That's what whould make it perfect for inflating a bicycle with, because it's "lighter than air"Helium only exists as single atoms... well maybe He2+, but that would be plasma gas
and yes, its smaller than any of the gases which form air
Right, which is why it is "lighter than air"... because it's less dense. That's what whould make it perfect for inflating a bicycle with, because it's "lighter than air"
My question is if you took a front wheel, weighed it, then replaced the air in the tire with helium, would it weigh less? The mass will stay the same, but what happens to the weight in this scenerio. Which leads me to my real question...
How much higher could you jump?
Yeah, I have a strange sense of humor, sorry. Don't take anything I write too literally, besides who's to say my balls aren't shaved already? I did check out the other thread tho just for a laugh. Hydrogen sounds like a fun time, forgot about that one.probably no higher than if you shaved your balls. in other words; i doubt it would make any difference at all.
i think there was a similar thread asking this same question a few years ago.
edit; found it: http://ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119817&highlight=helium+tube
im taking this question seriously so appologiesRight, which is why it is "lighter than air"... because it's less dense. That's what whould make it perfect for inflating a bicycle with, because it's "lighter than air"
My question is if you took a front wheel, weighed it, then replaced the air in the tire with helium, would it weigh less? The mass will stay the same, but what happens to the weight in this scenerio. Which leads me to my real question...
How much higher could you jump?
easily up to, but not exceeding, fully one half the length of a gnats d*ck.So how much higher could you jump?
Nitrogen is not a liquid when in a shock, it is a gas (it is only liquid at -320 degrees F or at an outrageously high pressure) Maybe there is a completely novel dampening system for using a gas (ie. air or nitrogen) instead of a liquid (ie. oil), but unless there is, the nitrogen is only used as an air spring or for pressurizing the oil that is the dampening medium.nitrogen is a gas, and besides it not having any water in it like air, it wont act and different from air. it will still heat up and it will still react to change in pressures from change in altitude.
nitrogen is a fluid, its just far less viscous then oil and compressible.
it can be used as a damping fluid, but i would imagine that it would heat up quite a bit and cause inconsistent damping. unless the dampers takes into account the changing density of the damping fluid.
Nitrogen is not a liquid when in a shock, it is a gas (it is only liquid at -320 degrees F or at an outrageously high pressure) Maybe there is a completely novel dampening system for using a gas (ie. air or nitrogen) instead of a liquid (ie. oil), but unless there is, the nitrogen is only used as an air spring or for pressurizing the oil that is the dampening medium.
races depend on this infoeasily up to, but not exceeding, fully one half the length of a gnats d*ck.
You're confusing the terms liquid and fluid - fluid can be a gas or a liquid, liquid and gas are chemical states.Nitrogen is not a liquid when in a shock, it is a gas (it is only liquid at -320 degrees F or at an outrageously high pressure) Maybe there is a completely novel dampening system for using a gas (ie. air or nitrogen) instead of a liquid (ie. oil), but unless there is, the nitrogen is only used as an air spring or for pressurizing the oil that is the dampening medium.