[Electric_City]

The term "telescopic fork".

Im aware that nearly 100% of mountain bike forks are telescopic. You don't have to all of a sudden refer to them as their own category since some new piece-of-shit fork came out that's not "telescopic". There's like what, 10 of these piece-of-shits out there that people bought?

 

[canadmos]

Telescopic is such an acoustic bike term.

 

[StiHacka]

Telescopic is such an acoustic bike term.

 

[Electric_City]

I've bought an air guitar and can play any song in the world on it. But only the acoustic one.

 

[Wuffles]

My usual weapon of choice is a pivot 5.5 rear 140, front 160

I think you would be supprised to know that many mfgs dont do FEA, they draw it and say YEA DUDE LOOKS RAD.....

3:25
Just uhh sketch around for that look you want
No mention of fea

I wouldn't trust the bike industry to do FEA properly anyway.*

Being an enginerd myself, I've noticed a distrubing trend of damn kids these days of making FEA (especially programs integrated into a CAD suite) the first, last, and only method of structural analysis. Free body diagrams seem to be a dying art, which is unfortunate for humanity because it's going to kill a lot of people. The best technical document I've ever read was the analysis package for the wing of an airliner. It was 600 pages of free body diagrams demonstrating every conceivable load case and structural reaction. Then the pretty FEA stuff was in an appendix, basically as added proof. The final appendix was the full-scale test results, where the wing broke exactly where and and at what load the FBDs said it would. The people who wrote that package understood what the fuck they were doing. Joe Schmoe CAD engineer with his pretty 3-d strain model of a bike frame doesn't know shit, and the consumer is going to find that out the hard way.

So the lack of FEA really doesn't bother me. It's the lack of basic machine design principles like: "if I weld aluminum tube A of thickness .xxx to aluminum tube B of thickness .yyy, and my weld fillet angle is z degrees, what is the maximum safe static and fatigue loads?" These are things that can be calculated by hand with a copy of Shigley's Machine Design, but I'm pretty sure he hasn't done that.

*I'll make an exemption for companies who's engineers come from actual industries coughRid-Eggcough

 

[canadmos]

I've bought an air guitar and can play any song in the world on it. But only the acoustic one.

What colorway did your guitar come in?

 

[Electric_City]

All OF THEM!

 

[jonKranked]

I wouldn't trust the bike industry to do FEA properly anyway.*

Being an enginerd myself, I've noticed a distrubing trend of damn kids these days of making FEA (especially programs integrated into a CAD suite) the first, last, and only method of structural analysis. Free body diagrams seem to be a dying art, which is unfortunate for humanity because it's going to kill a lot of people. The best technical document I've ever read was the analysis package for the wing of an airliner. It was 600 pages of free body diagrams demonstrating every conceivable load case and structural reaction. Then the pretty FEA stuff was in an appendix, basically as added proof. The final appendix was the full-scale test results, where the wing broke exactly where and and at what load the FBDs said it would. The people who wrote that package understood what the fuck they were doing. Joe Schmoe CAD engineer with his pretty 3-d strain model of a bike frame doesn't know shit, and the consumer is going to find that out the hard way.

So the lack of FEA really doesn't bother me. It's the lack of basic machine design principles like: "if I weld aluminum tube A of thickness .xxx to aluminum tube B of thickness .yyy, and my weld fillet angle is z degrees, what is the maximum safe static and fatigue loads?" These are things that can be calculated by hand with a copy of Shigley's Machine Design, but I'm pretty sure he hasn't done that.

*I'll make an exemption for companies who's engineers come from actual industries coughRid-Eggcough

so they ran a proper dFMEA?

 

[dump]

I wouldn't trust the bike industry to do FEA properly anyway.*

Being an enginerd myself, I've noticed a distrubing trend of damn kids these days of making FEA (especially programs integrated into a CAD suite) the first, last, and only method of structural analysis. Free body diagrams seem to be a dying art, which is unfortunate for humanity because it's going to kill a lot of people. The best technical document I've ever read was the analysis package for the wing of an airliner. It was 600 pages of free body diagrams demonstrating every conceivable load case and structural reaction. Then the pretty FEA stuff was in an appendix, basically as added proof. The final appendix was the full-scale test results, where the wing broke exactly where and and at what load the FBDs said it would. The people who wrote that package understood what the fuck they were doing. Joe Schmoe CAD engineer with his pretty 3-d strain model of a bike frame doesn't know shit, and the consumer is going to find that out the hard way.

So the lack of FEA really doesn't bother me. It's the lack of basic machine design principles like: "if I weld aluminum tube A of thickness .xxx to aluminum tube B of thickness .yyy, and my weld fillet angle is z degrees, what is the maximum safe static and fatigue loads?" These are things that can be calculated by hand with a copy of Shigley's Machine Design, but I'm pretty sure he hasn't done that.

*I'll make an exemption for companies who's engineers come from actual industries coughRid-Eggcough

My limited interaction w/ bike makers was exactly that. "This tubing thickness should be strong enough. If it breaks, you must have really whacked it."

Re: consumer is going to find out the hard way... Pole comes to mind.

Would love to take a gander at that wing analysis if you have a name.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

The term "telescopic fork".

Im aware that nearly 100% of mountain bike forks are telescopic. You don't have to all of a sudden refer to them as their own category since some new piece-of-shit fork came out that's not "telescopic". There's like what, 10 of these piece-of-shits out there that people bought?

It's called English. Rigid, leading link, and other types of fork are in use.

 

[4xBoy]

They'll install one in the rear as well so you can steer it by your dick.

Going to need most travel for me.

 

[Jm_]

My limited interaction w/ bike makers was exactly that. "This tubing thickness should be strong enough. If it breaks, call it a prototype”!

Re: consumer is going to find out the hard way... Pole comes to mind

 

[Salami]

What colorway did your guitar come in?

Fuck telescopic, acoustic, E-bikes and colorways. I'd say fuck 29ers also but tall people like Minnaar need bikes that actually fit them.

 

[englertracing]

Fuck telescopic, acoustic, E-bikes and colorways. I'd say fuck 29ers also but tall people like Minnaar need bikes that actually fit them.

Wait a min,
Are you saying that xs29ers and xxl26 are stupid stupid bikes and that xs26, s27.5, m27.5, l27.5, xl29, and xxl29 all make way more sense?

 

[Salami]

More or less. Shaq needs one of those 5 XL 40

 

[Wuffles]

Would love to take a gander at that wing analysis if you have a name.

Sorry, should have clarified that I read it in a professional capacity, and that document is hidden behind about 15 layers of firewalls and triple factor authentications, and reading the disclaimers alone is probably a criminal act. Aerospace companies really hate sharing any of their secrets.

 

[canadmos]

Sorry, should have clarified that I read it in a professional capacity, and that document is hidden behind about 15 layers of firewalls and triple factor authentications, and reading the disclaimers alone is probably a criminal act. Aerospace companies really hate sharing any of their secrets.

Are your usb ports blocked?

 

[slyfink]

Yo, so honest question...how many of us are "overbiked"? It's certainly nice to have a serious bike that can handle aggressive downhills, but how many times are those present, and how often could you be 90% as fast on a lighter and simpler bike?

I'm particularly leary of this trend to reduce travel and reduce weight. I have no doubt those bikes can and do ride great, especially for duration of a bike test. But I think there is no escaping the reality that 120mm of travel is going to transfer more of an impact to the tire/rim/frame than 150mm or 160mm of travel. Since modern "updated geometry" allows riders to "ride more aggressively", people will smash into shit harder, and break things more. I'm on a Transition Patrol. I haven't broken a rim or busted a spoke on a ride in a really long time. My buddies with EXO tires, or 130mm bikes who ride fast and hard are constantly breaking shit on the trail. And I'm constantly waiting for them. Even if they are faster riders than me by 20%!

And then there's the guys that are using their bikes as excuses not to ride down the gnarlier trails anymore. Fuck that shit. Last year I was thinking I was going to have to find a new group of people to ride with.

Fuck that noise, and fuck those underbiking industry cocksuckers who are just trying to get us to break more stuff so they can sell even more shit.

 

[jstuhlman]

I'm particularly leary of this trend to reduce travel and reduce weight. I have no doubt those bikes can and do ride great, especially for duration of a bike test. But I think there is no escaping the reality that 120mm of travel is going to transfer more of an impact to the tire/rim/frame than 150mm or 160mm of travel. Since modern "updated geometry" allows riders to "ride more aggressively", people will smash into shit harder, and break things more. I'm on a Transition Patrol. I haven't broken a rim or busted a spoke on a ride in a really long time. My buddies with EXO tires, or 130mm bikes who ride fast and hard are constantly breaking shit on the trail. And I'm constantly waiting for them. Even if they are faster riders than me by 20%!

And then there's the guys that are using their bikes as excuses not to ride down the gnarlier trails anymore. Fuck that shit. Last year I was thinking I was going to have to find a new group of people to ride with.

Fuck that noise, and fuck those underbiking industry cocksuckers who are just trying to get us to break more stuff so they can sell even more shit.

so what you're saying is, you're a big fan of downcountry? or is it crossduro?

 

[Wuffles]

Are your usb ports blocked?

Haha, my job is how I pay for my cocaine bike habit.

 

[Jm_]

I'm particularly leary of this trend to reduce travel and reduce weight. I have no doubt those bikes can and do ride great, especially for duration of a bike test. But I think there is no escaping the reality that 120mm of travel is going to transfer more of an impact to the tire/rim/frame than 150mm or 160mm of travel. Since modern "updated geometry" allows riders to "ride more aggressively", people will smash into shit harder, and break things more. I'm on a Transition Patrol. I haven't broken a rim or busted a spoke on a ride in a really long time. My buddies with EXO tires, or 130mm bikes who ride fast and hard are constantly breaking shit on the trail. And I'm constantly waiting for them. Even if they are faster riders than me by 20%!

And then there's the guys that are using their bikes as excuses not to ride down the gnarlier trails anymore. Fuck that shit. Last year I was thinking I was going to have to find a new group of people to ride with.

Fuck that noise, and fuck those underbiking industry cocksuckers who are just trying to get us to break more stuff so they can sell even more shit.

It works because:
1, most people don't really ride *that* hard. They may ride a black every once and a while, but they don't push it, roll down what can be launched, etc. Not to say there aren't aggressive riders...but by the numbers, they aren't the majority.

2., it takes a seriously steep and gnarly chute/trail to make the 160+mm bike faster. Towards the high end of "black diamond" and in many cases, double-black diamond. Even at trail grades below that, it can be seriously more comfortable and fun, but as you decrease the gnar, the speed of the smaller travel bike quickly gets to be faster and making that up with physical ability gets exponentially harder (as the terrain gets easier).

There's probably a lot more riders here per capita that go "hard", and we carry around more bike than we need much of the time, but if you want to sell the most amount of bikes, your going to hit a much bigger demographic with less travel.

 

[slyfink]

It works because:
1, most people don't really ride *that* hard. They may ride a black every once and a while, but they don't push it, roll down what can be launched, etc. Not to say there aren't aggressive riders...but by the numbers, they aren't the majority.

2., it takes a seriously steep and gnarly chute/trail to make the 160+mm bike faster. Towards the high end of "black diamond" and in many cases, double-black diamond. Even at trail grades below that, it can be seriously more comfortable and fun, but as you decrease the gnar, the speed of the smaller travel bike quickly gets to be faster and making that up with physical ability gets exponentially harder (as the terrain gets easier).

There's probably a lot more riders here per capita that go "hard", and we carry around more bike than we need much of the time, but if you want to sell the most amount of bikes, your going to hit a much bigger demographic with less travel.

I guess my point is that it's not necessarily about going faster; most people aren't racing. It's about durability. and short-travel bikes will suffer more from being pommeled, even by a beginner on blue terrain. The industry has convinced people lighter is better than durable. As a result, I have to wait for people who break shit because they bought into that crap! (it's all about me don't you know!)[and I also have to admit that I kinda resent being labeled "the slow guy", in part because I'm lugging around the extra heft of a bike that won't break down all the time. I may be a little slower on the climb, but at least I'm not scared of doing the gnarly descents, and I'm not going to have to stop midway down a descent to fix my bike]

so what you're saying is, you're a big fan of downcountry? or is it crossduro?

 

[canadmos]

Haha, my job is how I pay for my cocaine bike habit.

I wouldn't expect you to actually try releasing something. It's just funny seeing the effort some companies/people take to secure their stuff, but forget to mitigate the most basic things; like all the things you mentioned, fort Knox etc, but then being able to walk out with the precious document physically in your hand or something.

 

[djjohnr]

I guess my point is that it's not necessarily about going faster; most people aren't racing. It's about durability. and short-travel bikes will suffer more from being pommeled, even by a beginner on blue terrain. The industry has convinced people lighter is better than durable. As a result, I have to wait for people who break shit because they bought into that crap! (it's all about me don't you know!)[and I also have to admit that I kinda resent being labeled "the slow guy", in part because I'm lugging around the extra heft of a bike that won't break down all the time. I may be a little slower on the climb, but at least I'm not scared of doing the gnarly descents, and I'm not going to have to stop midway down a descent to fix my bike]

Is the "industry" really just 90% Mike Leavy? If that's the case, are we simply one Lee Harvey Oswald away from course correction?

 

[jstuhlman]

Is the "industry" really just 90% Mike Leavy? If that's the case, are we simply one Lee Harvey Oswald away from course correction?

 

[Sandwich]

I guess my point is that it's not necessarily about going faster; most people aren't racing. It's about durability. and short-travel bikes will suffer more from being pommeled, even by a beginner on blue terrain. The industry has convinced people lighter is better than durable. As a result, I have to wait for people who break shit because they bought into that crap! (it's all about me don't you know!)[and I also have to admit that I kinda resent being labeled "the slow guy", in part because I'm lugging around the extra heft of a bike that won't break down all the time. I may be a little slower on the climb, but at least I'm not scared of doing the gnarly descents, and I'm not going to have to stop midway down a descent to fix my bike]

geez, did I touch a nerve or something

I frankly have found the opposite to be true. Beefy aluminum bikes with 6 plus inches of travel and dual ply tires for derping around on flat trails. I'm sure it goes both ways, and I'm advocating for light, short travel bikes on a DH forum which is pretty stupid in itself, but I still think a shorter travel bike piloted well is superior overall to a big travel bike just hamfisted through techy terrain and forced up the climbs.

 

[jonKranked]

another train of thought... maybe people are coming around to the realization that they are, in general, overbiked. ie the bike they are riding is overkill for 90% of what they're doing.

 

[maxyedor]

another train of thought... maybe people are coming around to the realization that they are, in general, overbiked. ie the bike they are riding is overkill for 90% of what they're doing.

I believe you are correct. With newer riders, I've seen lots of people buy bad ass enduro bikes as first bikes, and then shortly thereafter swap to a lighter, shorter travel trail bike when you figure out that their local loop is nothing like an EWS course. More experienced riders got fooled by the industry into thinking enduro bikes really can climb like an XC bike and descend like a downhill rig, only to find out that they do neither. The pendulum may be swinging too far the other way, thanks to stupid "downcountry" bikes, but the correct bike for most people is a lot closer to an overforked XC bike than a 180mm travel enduro/park bike.

 

[jonKranked]

I believe you are correct. With newer riders, I've seen lots of people buy bad ass enduro bikes as first bikes, and then shortly thereafter swap to a lighter, shorter travel trail bike when you figure out that their local loop is nothing like an EWS course. More experienced riders got fooled by the industry into thinking enduro bikes really can climb like an XC bike and descend like a downhill rig, only to find out that they do neither. The pendulum may be swinging too far the other way, thanks to stupid "downcountry" bikes, but the correct bike for most people is a lot closer to an overforked XC bike than a 180mm travel enduro/park bike.

for IMBA'fied trails downcountry bikes are perfect.

 

[StiHacka]

Most riders I know, event those riding for 20 years +, just aren't descenders. It's sad.

 

[xy9ine]

$16,500USD / $20,000CAD:

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/s-works-turbo-levo-sl-founders-edition/p/187101

 

[4xBoy]

Special E Z for going upcunty, I mean up country.

Giggity.

 

[maxyedor]

Maybe try being less poor?

The big S can help https://www.specialized.com/us/en/installments

 

[zdubyadubya]

with a non-piggy-back shock, a FIT4 damper fork, Praxis cranks, and moderate-level hubs...

What.... The.... FVCK...

$16,500USD / $20,000CAD:

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/s-works-turbo-levo-sl-founders-edition/p/187101

 

[SkaredShtles]

a FIT4 damper fork

A Fox 34, no less.

 

[iRider]

I'm particularly leary of this trend to reduce travel and reduce weight. I have no doubt those bikes can and do ride great, especially for duration of a bike test. But I think there is no escaping the reality that 120mm of travel is going to transfer more of an impact to the tire/rim/frame than 150mm or 160mm of travel. Since modern "updated geometry" allows riders to "ride more aggressively", people will smash into shit harder, and break things more. I'm on a Transition Patrol. I haven't broken a rim or busted a spoke on a ride in a really long time. My buddies with EXO tires, or 130mm bikes who ride fast and hard are constantly breaking shit on the trail. And I'm constantly waiting for them. Even if they are faster riders than me by 20%!

And then there's the guys that are using their bikes as excuses not to ride down the gnarlier trails anymore. Fuck that shit. Last year I was thinking I was going to have to find a new group of people to ride with.

Fuck that noise, and fuck those underbiking industry cocksuckers who are just trying to get us to break more stuff so they can sell even more shit.

I think the assumption that people only have one bike is wrong here. Right tool for job, so you need to have both in your quiver. N+1

 

[xy9ine]

Maybe try being less poor?

The big S can help https://www.specialized.com/us/en/installments

funny that trust also has financing options on their site. financing. a bicycle fork. what the fork?

https://www.affirm.com/apps/prequal/?public_api_key=MIWUYJ8H5O87EBWB&referring_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftrustperformance.com%2Fproducts%2Fshout&unit_price=197500&webhook_session_id=shopifyUser&page_type=product&use_promo=true

 

[Wuffles]

So Pivot has a new version of the Switchblade, and it's launching with the usual multi-site coordinated ad release.
That's not particularly unusual. But this release has made me realize just how cancerously terrible Vital has gotten recently.

2020 Pivot Switchblade Pro XT/XTR 29

Reviews, ratings, specifications, weight, price and more for the 2020 Pivot Switchblade Pro XT/XTR 29

www.vitalmtb.com

Paid-for press junket over three days. Resulting in a 5-star "possible bike of the year" """review""". To note: the actual review is a goddamn video, which is itself cancer. Lern 2 rite.

Starts with the usual spouting of marketing geo copy, with no discussion of their merits, just superlatives relative to the old model, it's MORE than the last one. No context = no valid. Then we get to the actual riding, annnnndddd.... there's not much. "It climbs well, it descends well; super poppy, yet never gets hung up on square edge hits; THERE'S A SPECIAL CUSTOM SHOCK TUNE GUIZ!; blah blah blah..." wait why the hell is half of the video about touring Pivot's old and new offices? How does this in any way relate to a bike review? Also, they gloss over the fact that the rear end is so fucking wide it rubs not only your shoes, but your calves. "It's a quick adjustment" they say. That's not a quick adjustment, that's called permanently riding the bike pigeon-toed. Perhaps some more coverage is in order?

Oh, the cheapest model is FIVE AND A HALF THOUSAND DOLLARS. The cheapest one. Most expensive? $14,400. Which I believe takes the crown for the most expensive production MTB (and yes, I am aware someone made some berillium hardtail in the 90s that was 20k, but there's like fifteen of those ever, so it doesn't count).

So the combination of Corpo-shill ad copy Vital had the cohones to call a "review", along with the eye-watering price tag, I humbly submit for your consideration as everything wrong with the industry.

 

[Wuffles]

$16,500USD / $20,000CAD:

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/s-works-turbo-levo-sl-founders-edition/p/187101

That's a handsome looking motorcycle. I'd still take a BMW 850 for that money though.

 

[slimshady]

To note: the actual review is a goddamn video, which is itself cancer. Lern 2 rite.

This. A thousand times this. I cannot stand somebody either speaking off his butt or reading some junk off a cardboard placed right by the camera/phone. A well thought, re-read before being published, written review will always beat those 5-minute video abominations. I avoid them like the plague.

On a related note, the millennial syndrome has expanded to education. Instead of properly formatted Ansible manuals or courses I'm being fed 5-8 minute videos with a couple of asshats discussing how wonderful the technology is. Fuck them.