[peter6061]

I'll do any laps necessary, but would prefer not to get stuck on the stupid dusk lap. Somehow, I always end up on it trying to hold out as long as possible to turn the lights on as they don't do anything until it's actually dark.

 

[Westy]

I'll do any laps necessary, but would prefer not to get stuck on the stupid dusk lap. Somehow, I always end up on it trying to hold out as long as possible to turn the lights on as they don't do anything until it's actually dark.

I got stuck on the low light dawn and dusk laps at Seven Springs last year. If we have clear skies we should have a nice moon for the race.

 

[ghostrider]

I believe the ghostrider/Echo crew will roll in late afternoon Thursday.

Friday morning. We'll be in Phoenix Thursday night picking up the RV and visiting my wife's brother.

 

[Westy]

I'm leaving after work on Thursday and will probably grab a hotel on the way, finally arriving Friday AM.

 

[douglas]

Or has a major mechanical.

I'd still like to do at least one double though. If it's cool with the team.

I suppose if two people wanted to do doubles and 2 people wanted to alternate, we could go 11223434

or if you all want night doubles

1234 11233244 1234 (me being #2)
or
1234 11223443 1234 (me being #3)

 

[ghostrider]

or if you all want night doubles

1234 11233244 1234 (me being #2)
or
1234 11223443 1234 (me being #3)

Nice! You guys are going to spend the whole race wondering whose turn it is to ride. "Whose turn is it now?" "Beats me." "I think its yours!" "BS I just rode b!tch!!"

 

[Westy]

I say we go in the order that the ascii values of "beast from the east" lists out. 1 will also be 5, 2-6,3-7,8-4. The first time 0 comes up it would be a 1, the second time it would be a 2. 9 would work the same way with 3 and for. I think this would be the best way to keep the competition off guard and guessing what we do next.

 

[G-Cracker]

Sorry to interrupt you lap discussion but I've got a light question. I rode for the first time (ever) at night last night at Fantasy Island. My new handlebar light is great, but my helmet light pretty much sucks. Might as well be holding a BIC lighter.

I'm not so sure I can get another good light for my helmet so might have to make due with my current lights... just move em around a bit. What do you guys think is more important... helmet or handlebar?

 

[Westy]

Sorry to interrupt you lap discussion but I've got a light question. I rode for the first time (ever) at night last night at Fantasy Island. My new handlebar light is great, but my helmet light pretty much sucks. Might as well be holding a BIC lighter.

I'm not so sure I can get another good light for my helmet so might have to make due with my current lights... just move em around a bit. What do you guys think is more important... helmet or handlebar?

If you have two lights I would say put the weakest one on the bar pointed right in front of your wheel and the brightest one on your helmet pointed farther out. If you can't do this the problem you have is the bar light is closer to the ground and washes out a helmet light.

I like to run an HID on my helmet and a halogen on the bar. The helmet mounted HID has enough light to go on its own but since the light source and your eyes are so close it is nearly impossible to see shadows making it harder to see changes in the terrain, makes things see two dimensional. The bar light throws a shadow that can be seen making obstacles clearer.

 

[douglas]

I say we go in the order that the ascii values of "beast from the east" lists out. 1 will also be 5, 2-6,3-7,8-4. The first time 0 comes up it would be a 1, the second time it would be a 2. 9 would work the same way with 3 and for. I think this would be the best way to keep the competition off guard and guessing what we do next.

intersting idea......what about using Base 8 (Octal) Numbering system?

actually I think we should each do 1/3 of a lap, with the 4th resting and then the next lap we.........err nevermind

 

[douglas]

Sorry to interrupt you lap discussion but I've got a light question. I rode for the first time (ever) at night last night at Fantasy Island. My new handlebar light is great, but my helmet light pretty much sucks. Might as well be holding a BIC lighter.

I'm not so sure I can get another good light for my helmet so might have to make due with my current lights... just move em around a bit. What do you guys think is more important... helmet or handlebar?

most people w/1 light go helmet mount - so they can see what their looking at, compared to where the bike is pointed (thinky twisty singletrack)

but I put my HID on my bar (it seemed heavy/bothered me when helmet mounted) and use my crappy but less heavy light on my helmet)

 

[Westy]

intersting idea......what about using Base 8 (Octal) Numbering system?

actually I think we should each do 1/3 of a lap, with the 4th resting and then the next lap we.........err nevermind

Interesting point. We could also do a basic binary system with each person being assigned two bits. First lap 0 goes, second 1, third lap 0 and 1 go back out at the same time and so on.

 

[Westy]

most people w/1 light go helmet mount - so they can see what their looking at, compared to where the bike is pointed (thinky twisty singletrack)

but I put my HID on my bar (it seemed heavy/bothered me when helmet mounted) and use my crappy but less heavy light on my helmet)

What kind of HID do you run? If it is a Night Rider I have a solution to the weight problem. I think you'll be happier with the set up switched around.

 

[G-Cracker]

Yeah, I hear you on teh twisty singletrack. The only thing saving me last night was that I knew the trail and there was enough moonlight to barely see what was coming up... while my handlebar light was illuminating the desert off the trail.

My helmet is a caving light and although bright at 5-8 feet, the light I have on my bars (bright!) washes it out. So I think I'll put the bright light on my helmet and just go with that. Damn... I might have to buy another decent light for the bars though. I don't like only having one light... if it has some problem then I'm up a creek...

Thanks for the advice, fellas.

 

[douglas]

What kind of HID do you run? If it is a Night Rider I have a solution to the weight problem. I think you'll be happier with the set up switched around.

yup (night rider)

I think I heard you say before you do a rubber band back of the helmet trick, correct?

my other issue, my niterider helmet mount is MIA

 

[narlus]

or if you all want night doubles

1234 11233244 1234 (me being #2)
or
1234 11223443 1234 (me being #3)

why don't you want to do night doubles? i've done 5 of these 24 hr races and i think that's the best strategy (although i guess it does depend on the course and conditions).

 

[peter6061]

my other issue, my niterider helmet mount is MIA

I'll try and remember mine. I usually go bar mount simply for the depth perception. However, the twisty wooded singletrack at Seven Springs sure is easier with one on the helmet as well.

As I haven't ridden the Old Pueblo course yet, the map looks fairly straight. Not a lot of twists out there?

 

[Westy]

yup (night rider)

I think I heard you say before you do a rubber band back of the helmet trick, correct?

my other issue, my niterider helmet mount is MIA

I can loan you an extra mount if you want to try it.

No rubber bands. The problem with the niterider mount is it goes on the front of the helmet really weighing down your helmet and neck. I shim up the front of the mount with some chunks of foam rubber that lets me mount it closer to the top of the helmet, feels much better.

 

[douglas]

why don't you want to do night doubles? i've done 5 of these 24 hr races and i think that's the best strategy (although i guess it does depend on the course and conditions).

OP course is a little over 15 miles

1)I suck and bonked at 2 of my last 3 24's during one my night laps

2)even if I dont bonk I know I could do faster laps with a rest, then I would doing doubles

3)I'd have to get my other helmet light's battery, more gu, and a full water bottle - seems like that would waste time

 

[ghostrider]

I've used this before and I think it is a good deal if you are worried about lights:

http://www.jetlites.com/rental.html

 

[Westy]

I'll try and remember mine. I usually go bar mount simply for the depth perception. However, the twisty wooded singletrack at Seven Springs sure is easier with one on the helmet as well.

As I haven't ridden the Old Pueblo course yet, the map looks fairly straight. Not a lot of twists out there?

There is some flowing singletrack. Map resolution probably doesn't pick it up.

 

[douglas]

I can loan you an extra mount if you want to try it.

No rubber bands. The problem with the niterider mount is it goes on the front of the helmet really weighing down your helmet and neck..

cool & yup..that was my issue

 

[Westy]

cool & yup..that was my issue

Let's see if we can't get things fixed up for you then.

 

[peter6061]

There is some flowing singletrack. Map resolution probably doesn't pick it up.

Cool. That's what I figured from the pictures.

It's probably similar to what I used to ride out there.

 

[G-Cracker]

There is flowing singletrack, but nothing too bad... not even as "drastic" as Fantasy Island.

 

[narlus]

OP course is a little over 15 miles

1)I suck and bonked at 2 of my last 3 24's during one my night laps

2)even if I dont bonk I know I could do faster laps with a rest, then I would doing doubles

3)I'd have to get my other helmet light's battery, more gu, and a full water bottle - seems like that would waste time

well, that course is long to double up; the races i did had laps which were probably in the 8-10 mile range. the nice thing about doubling up at night is that it gives yr team a chance to get in a decent amount of rest. what is the average lap time, a bit over an hour or so?

 

[Westy]

well, that course is long to double up; the races i did had laps which were probably in the 8-10 mile range. the nice thing about doubling up at night is that it gives yr team a chance to get in a decent amount of rest. what is the average lap time, a bit over an hour or so?

If conditions are dry the laps will be fast, actually last year when things were wet laps were still relatively fast. I suspect sub hour laps during the begining of the race.

 

[douglas]

well, that course is long to double up; the races i did had laps which were probably in the 8-10 mile range. the nice thing about doubling up at night is that it gives yr team a chance to get in a decent amount of rest. what is the average lap time, a bit over an hour or so?

last year we had laps from 1:07 to 1:37 (night lap w/hail !)


umm, 18 laps in just under 25 hours.......... = 1:23 avg

 

[douglas]

oh yeah, 1st lap has a short run and then skips some st, so that one westy put down a 1:01

 

[mantispf2000]

In case I'm not too late with the laps discussion, I read in a magazine that a decent way is to do-- 1212 3434 1212 3434. Worth a try? Oh, wait, I'm solo, so I don't get much of a say...................

 

[douglas]

In case I'm not too late with the laps discussion, I read in a magazine that a decent way is to do-- 1212 3434 1212 3434. Worth a try? Oh, wait, I'm solo, so I don't get much of a say...................

here's a hint: 1111111111111111111111111111111111

 

[Echo]

In case I'm not too late with the laps discussion, I read in a magazine that a decent way is to do-- 1212 3434 1212 3434. Worth a try? Oh, wait, I'm solo, so I don't get much of a say...................

I'm sure I would be better with 2 straight hours of riding than ride 1 hour, rest 1 hour, ride one hour. At Dalton last year if I had known Sq-earl was gonna hold Treesaw from riding the slick night conditions (which was the correct thing to do), I would have totally gone for 2 straight night laps, I felt awesome after the first one.

 

[G-Cracker]

sub-hour laps? Crap! You guys will be running circles around me. LOL... like I thought otherwise anyway. My BEST lap has been 1:20! 'Course I still haven't gone all out yet on my training rides, but even so...

 

[Westy]

I'm sure I would be better with 2 straight hours of riding than ride 1 hour, rest 1 hour, ride one hour. At Dalton last year if I had known Sq-earl was gonna hold Treesaw from riding the slick night conditions (which was the correct thing to do), I would have totally gone for 2 straight night laps, I felt awesome after the first one.

It would be different to do during a 24 hour race but on normal XC 4 lap type races my 2nd or 3rd laps are usually the fastest. It takes me a while to get my legs warmed up.

 

[ghostrider]

I'm sure I would be better with 2 straight hours of riding than ride 1 hour, rest 1 hour, ride one hour. At Dalton last year if I had known Sq-earl was gonna hold Treesaw from riding the slick night conditions (which was the correct thing to do), I would have totally gone for 2 straight night laps, I felt awesome after the first one.

A couple things I can think of related to this. One is, my old body is not used to riding in the middle of the night, and I always get hungry about halfway around the lap, so something to eat will be critical for multiple night laps. You also have make sure you lights are good for 3 hours of riding. I know mine aren't. And last, according to my complex calculations (attached), if you are riding third, such as myself, the 1234 options looks the best.

 

[Borregokid]

Sorry to interrupt you lap discussion but I've got a light question. I rode for the first time (ever) at night last night at Fantasy Island. My new handlebar light is great, but my helmet light pretty much sucks. Might as well be holding a BIC lighter.

I'm not so sure I can get another good light for my helmet so might have to make due with my current lights... just move em around a bit. What do you guys think is more important... helmet or handlebar?

The past two years Light & Motion has been at the race renting out HID lights for about $30-plus they charge the batteries up between laps. Thats pretty much a bargain. I just bought a new HID for $270 from Performance. Thats close to the bottom of the price range. Dont wast time-money with the 10 watt lights except for your second and third light sources. I now have 3 -10 watt lights.

 

[ghostrider]

It would be different to do during a 24 hour race but on normal XC 4 lap type races my 2nd or 3rd laps are usually the fastest. It takes me a while to get my legs warmed up.

I've also noticed with interest that these races seem much easier when I'm sitting here in my cube than they do when I'm actually riding my bike at 3:00 AM in 36 degree weather. Still damn fun, though.

 

[ghostrider]

The past two years Light & Motion has been at the race renting out HID lights for about $30-plus they charge the batteries up between laps. Thats pretty much a bargain. I just bought a new HID for $270 from Performance. Thats close to the bottom of the price range. Dont wast time-money with the 10 watt lights except for your second and third light sources. I now have 3 -10 watt lights.

Both my lights are old school 10 watters. I don't need no fancy HID. Back in my day we duct taped fireflys to our bikes and that was just fine.

 

[Westy]

I've also noticed with interest that these races seem much easier when I'm sitting here in my cube than they do when I'm actually riding my bike at 3:00 AM in 36 degree weather. Still damn fun, though.

While sitting here I want to be a lap whore and volunteer to take over anyone elses lap. Now if you tried to get me out of bed at 3:30 AM to do your lap your likely to get a wet dirty chamois slapped upside your head.

Now if my last lap finishes at 11:58 AM I might just hog the batton and go 'round again.

 

[Echo]

Now if my last lap finishes at 11:58 AM I might just hog the batton and go 'round again.

Would be damn funny to see two grown men in spandex wrestling in the transition tent over a little dowel stick.