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Frankenbrakes and brake improvement discussion

Da Peach

Outwitted by a rodent
Jul 2, 2002
13,681
4,904
North Van
I’m too lazy to dig through the last 43 pages... tRiCk StUfF aside what is the best stock 4 piston brake right now? I am not a fan of shimano or sram and have had a mixed bag with Magura (MT7) need some brakes for my new trail bike and badly seek the approval from the ridemonkey syndicate...

I’m willing to speriment with some bastardizations (ie shigura) but need some feedback. So far the contenders for stock brakes seem to be Formula Cura 4, Hope(?), MT7s (maybe I just got a bad set or dont know how to bleed them properly) or even (gasp) Hayes!?. If no suitable alternative exists some bastardized version... halp.
ive switched from Shimano to MT7s. I’ve had them over a year now and they’ve been great.

I’ve even managed to bleed them successfully. Fortunately, I’ve only had to do it twice.
 

MrBaker87

Monkey
Mar 30, 2014
156
113
neverlandranch
Mt5 and Shimano levers. Done.

learn to bleed? Using the funnel, you can do a bottom up bleed. Just make sure to pull down a couple times while you’re bleeding up. Helps get in all those little spaces and displace air.
 

Leafy

Monkey
Sep 13, 2019
542
350
Right so that's why I ask. People complain about the magura master cylinders cranking in crashes, I clipped my right bar/brake level 3 times on my ride last night so that's a real concern for me. But it seems like the actual piston in the shimanos wear out and cause near death experiences, and the only fix for it seems to involve machining your own custom parts.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,855
9,559
AK
Yeah, but you can get a few years out of the Shimano levers before the first symptoms show up. Then toss them and get another pair.
Except if your first symptom is a leaver that leaks all it's fluid while on vacation.
 

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,770
519
From what I can tell:

(1) trick stuff - essentially fixes all the issues that crop up in most/all modern brakes, however expensive and lead times

(2) shigura - works quite well, with the shimano lever wildcard thrown in. Magura levers have funky ergonomics and questionable durability. Eventually the shimano lever cylinder will start going, the lever will vary in bite point and hard to get a good bleed. At this point, once it starts being an issue, just buy a new brake lever. XT levers are widely available and cheap. Magura MT5 brakes/calipers similarly available at low prices.

(3) Formula Cura 4 - well received and high functioning, but have minimal pad roll back like formula brakes are prone to, and frequently pad drag on the rotors as a result. Seemingly durable otherwise.

Curious if this lines up with other people experience.

Very happy with my shigura brakes, much more predictible than any anything else I have ridden for many years, very Smooth power build up, and great stopping power. Love em.

would still be on Formulas, except for the non-stop drag issues.
 

Happymtb.fr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2016
1,907
1,252
SWE
I am too quite happy with my shigura. I actually change my levers today for the new SLX. I have had mt500 levers before for around 350 hours of mainly trail riding. No issues with those except for the throw feeling like growing over time. I am not sure by how much tho since the new levers don't feel that different... I will have to dubbel check my bleed later.

Trickstuff pads are a good improvement over Magura's original.

I have the Cura 2 on the other bike, I like them too. The power comes a little faster than on the shigura. No biggie. I didn't had them for a long time yet, never changed pads, no bleeds, so limited experience in other words
 

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,770
519
so if you are full Cura brakes everywhere now, have you gotten it so they don't endlessly drag?
inquiring minds want to know.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
so if you are full Cura brakes everywhere now, have you gotten it so they don't endlessly drag?
inquiring minds want to know.
Depends. What's the ambient air temperature?

Not kidding


TLDR; sometimes not really but sometimes not always


Someone posted a while back that forumula released a piston seal that increases pad retraction. Anybody know more about that?
 

ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
I’m too lazy to dig through the last 43 pages... tRiCk StUfF aside what is the best stock 4 piston brake right now? I am not a fan of shimano or sram and have had a mixed bag with Magura (MT7) need some brakes for my new trail bike and badly seek the approval from the ridemonkey syndicate...

I’m willing to speriment with some bastardizations (ie shigura) but need some feedback. So far the contenders for stock brakes seem to be Formula Cura 4, Hope(?), MT7s (maybe I just got a bad set or dont know how to bleed them properly) or even (gasp) Hayes!?. If no suitable alternative exists some bastardized version... halp.
Lots of stories about Magura MT7s being a PITA to bleed properly, and reports of lever flex are disconcerting too. I've heard Magura USA support is amazing, but a lot of those reports of amazing service are from people who exploded the all-carbon lever body in crashes. I was seriously considering some for the reports of great power and modulation, but those other factors turned me away. Clearly lots of others here disagree with me tho.

I briefly had the 2 piston Formula Curas, but the ergonomics didn't work with my 11spd XT shifter for whatever reason. Brakes felt great though.

I'm still running TRP Quadiems on both of my bikes (hardtail and enduro bike). Cheap, insanely reliable (main attribute), and I like the ergonomics. They aren't as powerful as you'd expect for such a chunky brake, but the newer DH model reportedly has a lot more power since pros were asking.
 

dovbush66

Monkey
Aug 27, 2018
195
218
Ireland
Someone posted a while back that forumula released a piston seal that increases pad retraction. Anybody know more about that?
reviewer on nsmb spoke to formula and said it was a running production change... might be worth getting in touch with him or formula to find out which brake serial #s got it or what the story is with the seal kits
 

jstuhlman

bagpipe wanker
Dec 3, 2009
16,627
12,918
Cackalacka du Nord
same experience as @Nick. once i got my 4 set up well though it didn't really drag. i did add one thin washer between the bottom adapter and caliper, which helped. they've been solid, and with a more consistent feel than my xt's.
 
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buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
3,777
4,700
Champery, Switzerland
I have some Cura 2 that are easy to set up and don’t drag.
Anyone on the Hayes Dominion? I’m pretty happy with them.
They have minimal rollback similar to the Formulas, btw.
 

dovbush66

Monkey
Aug 27, 2018
195
218
Ireland
Anyone on 220mm discs on 2015+ post mount fox 40's? What kind of adapters work for this aside from specific ones like North shore billet?
 

mykel

closer to Periwinkle
Apr 19, 2013
5,071
3,780
sw ontario canada
Anyone on the Hayes Dominion? I’m pretty happy with them.
They have minimal rollback similar to the Formulas, btw.
Have a set of Dominions on the trailbike.
So far I like them.
No issues with drag or rubbing (NSB mounts and Hayes rotors)
I did have one do some stupid to the bar things.
Hayes warranty hooked me up with a new brake and enough parts to rebuild both, and all I did was e-mail and ask for some troubleshooting tips.
 

spocomptonrider

sportin' the CROCS
Nov 30, 2007
1,412
118
spokanistan
So the Formulas seem to be a mixed bag as well. Leaning toward another set of MT7... if I have issues I’ll bastardize them with some shimano levers but to be honest I’ve never been super excited with ServoWave™️...

Dumb question time, what do you guys mean when you say “pad rollback” is this different from lad retraction??
 

Kurt_80

Monkey
Jan 25, 2016
488
418
Perth, WA.
Depends. What's the ambient air temperature?

Not kidding


TLDR; sometimes not really but sometimes not always


Someone posted a while back that forumula released a piston seal that increases pad retraction. Anybody know more about that?
Mighta been @Udi who was assisting me with Formula rebuild tips.

Basically it's an update for certain (probably older) models: Enhanced Caliper Technology. I've installed it on my Ones. The front is now drag free, rear is still a little draggy, but that might be down to caliper positioning. Overall I'd say a pretty good improvement on older models. I'm guessing here, but I would assume newer models like Curas already have that tech... I think the ECT update is at least a few years old.
 

Kurt_80

Monkey
Jan 25, 2016
488
418
Perth, WA.
On a different note... can someone give me the pad width of a 2 pot XT finned pad? Also ideally the height from bottom of pad material to centre of locating pin? I've attached pics of the requested measurements for reference.

I assume the XT pads are wider than the Formula pads, but hopefully not 'taller'. If so, I'm thinking of grinding down the XT pad to fit a Formula caliper. The L04Cs are really quite good, but in the interest of optimisation... I gotta have a crack!

The one risk I do see is potentially over heating the pad material while grinding.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance!


Formula pad height.jpgFormula pad thickness.jpg
 

Flo33

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2015
2,057
1,298
Styria
On a different note... can someone give me the pad width of a 2 pot XT finned pad? Also ideally the height from bottom of pad material to centre of locating pin? I've attached pics of the requested measurements for reference.

I assume the XT pads are wider than the Formula pads, but hopefully not 'taller'. If so, I'm thinking of grinding down the XT pad to fit a Formula caliper. The L04Cs are really quite good, but in the interest of optimisation... I gotta have a crack!

The one risk I do see is potentially over heating the pad material while grinding.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance!


View attachment 143433View attachment 143434
L04c does the job in the R0R calipers for me, Hab and kidwoo had some worries with them rocking in the caliper afaik.

Trickstuff has a big spreadsheet with pad specs, in German ofc. I'm on my mobile phone atm and the sheet sucks for it. I can translate later if you want/care.

 

Kurt_80

Monkey
Jan 25, 2016
488
418
Perth, WA.
L04c does the job in the R0R calipers for me, Hab and kidwoo had some worries with them rocking in the caliper afaik.

Trickstuff has a big spreadsheet with pad specs, in German ofc. I'm on my mobile phone atm and the sheet sucks for it. I can translate later if you want/care.

Perfect! Just used google translate, so no need to help out, but thanks for the offer :)

Looks like if I want to do this it's 4mm off the sides in total. Hmmm, it's in the 'consideration' box.

On another note... I take it your R0Rs are still working well? Are they powerful? I was kinda keen on them before this One refurbishment project, but the bad review on PB put me off.
 
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