Quoted for truth. You're on a roll today.
Intense 29er DH bike
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One time I was riding by myself on some of the local AM trails on my Bottle Rocket. I stopped for a bit to play on a side feature, a really long log ride, with a pretty tight right turn in the middle of it. One of the local shop owners an 29er zealot extraordinaire rolled up, and watched me have a go. I made it a little ways past the turn, but didn't come through it totally cleanly, got wobbly, and fell off. He told me that he'd never seen anyone get that far, but that I would have made it if I'd been on a 29er. I asked him why none of his riding buddies could do it on their 29ers. He had nothing to say to that.
you should've borreowed his bike on the spot then took went AoTK before getting both wheels onOne time I was riding by myself on some of the local AM trails on my Bottle Rocket. I stopped for a bit to play on a side feature, a really long log ride, with a pretty tight right turn in the middle of it. One of the local shop owners an 29er zealot extraordinaire rolled up, and watched me have a go. I made it a little ways past the turn, but didn't come through it totally cleanly, got wobbly, and fell off. He told me that he'd never seen anyone get that far, but that I would have made it if I'd been on a 29er. I asked him why none of his riding buddies could do it on their 29ers. He had nothing to say to that.
another thought...One time I was riding by myself on some of the local AM trails on my Bottle Rocket. I stopped for a bit to play on a side feature, a really long log ride, with a pretty tight right turn in the middle of it. One of the local shop owners an 29er zealot extraordinaire rolled up, and watched me have a go. I made it a little ways past the turn, but didn't come through it totally cleanly, got wobbly, and fell off. He told me that he'd never seen anyone get that far, but that I would have made it if I'd been on a 29er. I asked him why none of his riding buddies could do it on their 29ers. He had nothing to say to that.
Bender TOTALLY could have landed that hundred footer if his Karpiel was a 29'er
I'd have been way too scared to go anywhere near that bike out of fear I'd break it by breathing on it. It's the most blinged out weight weenie 29er XC soft tail imaginable.
I have been in on the 29er hate, and have also heard relatively good things about he SC Tall Boy. I have a little time on 29'ers and AM a big guy (6'8", ~240, 38.5" inseam) and I can only reflect what everyone says about rolling over things, however in tight turns, switchbacks, off camber slipperyness (IE when the bike does shift/slip down) - they have felt AWFUL and cumbersome. It may be a matter of getting the geo right for each application and not using the same 26" geo by default, but so far - no good.
EDIT: And look at the tight berm shots, looks like bust em or jump em - cuz they aint getting railed.
EDIT: And look at the tight berm shots, looks like bust em or jump em - cuz they aint getting railed.
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Exactly, its not physically possible to get the geometry to where it needs to be for aggressive or technical riding. Unless the aim of your MTB is dirt road biking/pure XC its never going to be better.
That's why I'm intrigued by the 650b on my DH bike. Obviously all it would change would be making the BB a little higher, and since it's currently under 13" static, that's probably a good thing.
that reminds me... to date i have not seen one picture of a 29'er hucking, or even doing a sweet manual or wheelie
That was interesting. One of the more intelligent and well supported articles I've read on the subject.
Additionally, this is proper impressive:
Regarding the 29er... I'm all for trying new things, but I like parts that are interchangeable. Having such a purpose built machine with wheels, tires, tubes that I can only use on that bike is too specialized for my purposes. I'm not a racer and I have plenty of fun on my current bike.
I would think that that probably has to do with the lack of equipment built for that purpose, right? At least with regards to hitting the big stuff.
I think that up until now the technology has only gotten to the point that these wheels are burly enough to be used for xc/am applications. I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility for wheelbuilding and materials advances to get to the point where there are 29" wheels durable enough for DH.
Geometry and handling is obviously a bit of a trickier issue. But again there, the thought that 26" wheels are the perfect standard for DH and that they will stand for all eternity as the only suitable wheel size seems odd.
The point that's always made about how the 29ers are only suitable for "fire road DH" also seemed funny to me since the major selling point of the larger wheel is that it gets through the chunky stuff more easily. Or did I miss something?
I dunno. I don't ride XC, I haven't spent any time on a 29er so I have no real world experience on the topic. It's just a little strange to me that this conversation always brings out these ultra-conservative sentiments amongst DHers.
I wonder if suspension and 26" wheels met with the same heated opposition as the 29er is now. I'm sure someone who was riding in that era can weigh in on that.
All I know is carbon is definitely not for downhill bikes.
And 4 strokes will never work for Motocross.All I know is carbon is definitely not for downhill bikes.
And all those BMXers doing sick tricks on 24" wheelsAnd 4 strokes will never work for Motocross.
The 6'+ pro riders just couldn't cut it on 20s
I've got my 29er set up a little different than the average 29er rider. Since i've ridden my fair share of Dh, I threw some 29.5 v1 bars on it, put my gravity dropper on, and put a 70mm stem on it. My bike is a little bit different than my Coilair, but it's not so different that I couldn't get used to it. I ride XC with guys that are pro DH racers, and my 29er hasn't slowed me down enough that they can drop me on the down hill sections (unless it gets so hairy that i couldn't have done it on either bike). I think that a lot of people are forgetting that it really comes down to a rider's skill level more than the bike. The advantages of the 29er wheels rolling over things easier and getting up to speed and keeping it are worth it to me. It might be a tiny, tiny bit slower when it gets super tight and techy, but really, there aren't trails like that around here anywhere. The only place i can think of that would be a little harder to ride would be gooseberry just because of the tight turns. But like i said, i think a lot of it comes down to the skills the rider has more than it actually comes down to the bike.
From an old emptybeer thread, with Lance Canfield:
And Seb Kemp hitting the GLC drop on his Tallboy:
I've seen a few pic's and even some video (forget what movie it was in) of BCD's DH 29er.
Don't forget the Intense 2951 video on vital either http://www.vitalmtb.com/videos/features/The-Prototype-Intense-2951,918/sspomer,2
They also managed on getting a few MX tracks closed due to loud noise. SweetAnd 4 strokes will never work for Motocross.
Guess Honda really had to keep their mechanics job secure and force the 4 stroke idea onto everyone. No more one hour motor rebuilds for $100.
I sold my 4 stroke BTW. It was fun just no time to ride.
I said it before and will say it again: in the times of SRM cranks and Freelap systems it MUST be possible to collect enough scientific evidence for or against 29ers being faster. So why has no bike manufacturer shown this data? Would be a huge marketing tool! Unless, of course, the data shows no difference or a disadvantage of 29ers. Mmmmhhhhh......
How the FVCK do you propose to that? If it was as cut and dry as "29ers are faster or "26ers are faster" we'd have caught on by now. The number of factors beyond wheel size is innumerable. I mean, I could grab a 29er and a 26er, and time myself over certain sections of trail. I'd probably be faster on different bits of trail on the different bikes. Does that mean fvck all about how they'd work for you on your trails? Not really. You're grossly oversimplifying the issue.
IMO riding style makes a bigger difference than wheel size....
To obtain real data the rider must be eliminated from the equation for a result that is not relative.. Kind of misses the point though as not everyone riders the same.. Back to where I started
To obtain real data the rider must be eliminated from the equation for a result that is not relative.. Kind of misses the point though as not everyone riders the same.. Back to where I started
to some people it doesn't matter if it's faster or not....I like the challenge of riding a 26" wheel in technical terrain, 29ers remove that challenge and make it easier for hacks to ride gnarly stuff....hey, if you like cheating, whatever, your call...... ;-) for the record, I've spent the past couple weeks on a tallboy, and it's fun here and there, but certainly not the be all and end all of bike technology, plenty of shortcomings to go along with it....
This argument always makes me LOL. So based on this why are you messing with 26" wheels? Better get yourself a full rigid 24" rig, right? That logic makes zero sense to me.
or even better still ride a BMX... then after the you dont clear that rock garden you can explain that you would have smoked everyone if you were on a normal bike...
it's not an argument, it's a preference, get over it
What you're saying just sounds funny. It's like saying downhill bikes make rocks easier for hacks to ride through and those guys like Minaar and Peaty are cheating. What's going to happen when one of them start riding a proto 29er? Everybody is gonna be nut huggin and speaking the 29er gospel if that happens. Oh, it's gonna be funny. I can guarantee that EDGE/ENVE is working on a set of carbon 29er wheels that would hold up to some abuse.
Alright, a little too much hostility from both sides. As someone who owns multiple bikes both of the 26 and 29 variety this is my .02.
Bikes are tools, they help get you from point A to point B (more or less). Some will do it faster, some more efficient, and some with a little more fun. Some will excel on smooth fast trails, some on tight twisty trails and some on steep technical trails. Sometimes the right tool for one person isn't the right tool for another. You could also draw a comparison to golf clubs. You have a whole bag full of them, could you get through 18 holes with just 1 club? Sure. But each club has a more specific purpose and is most efficient when used in the situation it was designed for. And just like with bikes, you will occasionally have some overlap, where two tools can both accomplish the same outcome but each might suit one individual over another.
Maybe that's too broad a comparison but the way I see it, they are all bikes. Just go out and enjoy the ride, whatever you're on.
:: steps down from soapbox::
Bikes are tools, they help get you from point A to point B (more or less). Some will do it faster, some more efficient, and some with a little more fun. Some will excel on smooth fast trails, some on tight twisty trails and some on steep technical trails. Sometimes the right tool for one person isn't the right tool for another. You could also draw a comparison to golf clubs. You have a whole bag full of them, could you get through 18 holes with just 1 club? Sure. But each club has a more specific purpose and is most efficient when used in the situation it was designed for. And just like with bikes, you will occasionally have some overlap, where two tools can both accomplish the same outcome but each might suit one individual over another.
Maybe that's too broad a comparison but the way I see it, they are all bikes. Just go out and enjoy the ride, whatever you're on.
:: steps down from soapbox::
no hostility....like I said, I've been riding a tallboy, and while it's fun, it takes away a lot of what I personally enjoy in mountain biking. if it's your bag, go ahead, get your rocks off, but just don't assume that it is, or should be, for everyone.
So which is better on steep, tight, twisty trails?