[Udi]

They should press out without much difficulty at a later date, those two bearings in particular are very easy to access and you can make a nice press for them with a long 8mm shock bolt, nut, and an appropriately sized socket fitting. With a bit of creativity you can have home presses for installing and removing all bearings on that frame (vice, sockets, nuts, bolts).

Before applying the compound, make sure all contacting parts (both the bearing and the seat) are completely free of grease and oil, I use methylated spirits and a clean cloth. Generously apply the 609 to both bearing and seat, and press the bearings in again (I'd do both sides even if only one is moving).

 

[stu661]

The next problem is I can't get loctite 609 in the UK. I can get 603 and 641 but 603 is way to strong and 641 is not as strong as 609.

I'll try 641first because 603 is not meant to be used when disassembly is required.

Wow that's alot of numbers, I think it makes sense.

 

[Udi]

I just looked up the TDS's for them.
Shear strength in PSI is as follows:

603 - 3260
609 - 2300
641 - 1700

So yeah 641 will probably do, if that fails though try the 603. Make sure you leave the bike for 24h after installation too as that's the full curing time for all of those products.

Also, regarding shimming - it seemed to me like the natural position for both bearings was ~0.9mm out from the seat on either side, so if you have something handy you might find that'll increase bearing life (less static sideloading on them). But you'll probably just be right with the retaining compound unless you're really anal like me.

 

[Gary]

Think I've finally read this whole thread now.
I'm thinking of getting a Sunday but can't make up my mind whether the 16" or 17" would suit me better, I'm 5'11" but coming from a medium (19") 04 SGS DH which I've always felt is too big (standover) and just a little too long, the 23.5" toptube on a 17" Sunday seems long.
Does anyone know (or could you measure?)distance from the centre of bottom bracket shell to the centre of (underneath) head tube on 16" and 17" sunday frames?
Thanks.

 

[smithyM1]

Think I've finally read this whole thread now.
I'm thinking of getting a Sunday but can't make up my mind whether the 16" or 17" would suit me better, I'm 5'11" but coming from a medium (19") 04 SGS DH which I've always felt is too big (standover) and just a little too long, the 23.5" toptube on a 17" Sunday seems long.
Does anyone know (or could you measure?)distance from the centre of bottom bracket shell to the centre of (underneath) head tube on 16" and 17" sunday frames?
Thanks.

Hey Gary, how goes it?? I've got a 16" and im 5,11! Next time i see you you can do a couple of runs on it if you want?

 

[Gary]

Cool Andy. Cheers.
remember I had a wee go on yours at inners?
it felt pretty good, although I'm prob 3st or 4st heavier than you so it was a wee bit soft - forks bottomed out on the take-off for those tables.
think I could get on with it with the right springs, slightly higher bars and a lower seat.
can you measure your BB-HT for me?
Actually gimmie a phone when you do, we need to go out for beers soon.

 

[smithyM1]

Cool Andy. Cheers.
remember I had a wee go on yours at inners?
it felt pretty good, although I'm prob 3st or 4st heavier than you so it was a wee bit soft - forks bottomed out on the take-off for those tables.
think I could get on with it with the right springs, slightly higher bars and a lower seat.
can you measure your BB-HT for me?
Actually gimmie a phone when you do, we need to go out for beers soon.

Oh yeah, forgot about that! Im pretty sure you could get it running in a similar way to the old Muddy Fox with some wee tweaks...i'd like to try a medium just to see if there's any difference. Are you gonna go for a factory frame?
I'll check the height next time im back home(i dont keep it in the flat).
Aye we deffo need to get out for a beer or 2!

 

[Gary]

Nah, probably just going to get a complete bike.
My bike's def. seen better days so gonna start a fresh.

Just looked at some old race pics of the Muddy Fox. - I def. want a small Sunday now!

 

[S.K.C.]

Gary - I am also 5'11" but I ride a Medium (17"). It fits me perfectly, but that's just me. My experiences with the Small (16") was that I felt like I was getting back too far over the back end of the bike when I was in attack position - just not enough bike behind me.

Just some of my experiences...

 

[Udi]

I definitely wouldn't get a 16" sunday at 5'11. The medium fits me perfectly like SKC, I've also ridden a large and could comfortably ride that too. 5'11 is on the border of 17" and 19" frame sizes (for ironhorse DH bikes anyway) so going 16" would probably hinder your performance pretty noticeably.

I felt cramped as all hell when I tried the 16" and would hate to try and ride it at speed on a real DH course. My advice would be to go with the 17".

 

[Gary]

Thanks for your input guys, can I ask what sort of riders you are? and what sort of tracks you ride?
I'm not a racer anymore and I like jumping and pumping my bike through the fun lines rather than ploughing through the roughest stuff as fast as possible. In the UK (especially locally) we have a lot of tight tracks where you are constantly hopping from line to line and squeezing through tight trees to make turns. Ft William is the exception - but I only ride that track 2days each year anyway (I'm not fit enough for the beating it gives you)

When I tried Smithys 16" (albeit with too soft springs) it felt fine (really light and agile but totally neutral and stable) straight off I hit a couple of 20-30ft step-down/tables @ speed with no problem.
I also tried another riding buddies 19" and it was stupidly big - no way I'd ever want to ride it down any decent hill.

I do like small bikes - I spend 99% of my time riding a 14" hardtail, I've had a really small 16" DH bike in the past and was faster then than I ever will be again.

After phoning around it seems the UK is out of complete Sundays until the 08 ones arrive so unless I find one elsewhere I may still have time to get a go on a 17" to compare.

 

[S.K.C.]

Thanks for your input guys, can I ask what sort of riders you are? and what sort of tracks you ride?
I'm not a racer anymore and I like jumping and pumping my bike through the fun lines rather than ploughing through the roughest stuff as fast as possible. In the UK (especially locally) we have a lot of tight tracks where you are constantly hopping from line to line and squeezing through tight trees to make turns. Ft William is the exception - but I only ride that track 2days each year anyway (I'm not fit enough for the beating it gives you)

When I tried Smithys 16" (albeit with too soft springs) it felt fine (really light and agile but totally neutral and stable) straight off I hit a couple of 20-30ft step-down/tables @ speed with no problem.
I also tried another riding buddies 19" and it was stupidly big - no way I'd ever want to ride it down any decent hill.

I do like small bikes - I spend 99% of my time riding a 14" hardtail, I've had a really small 16" DH bike in the past and was faster then than I ever will be again.

Where I'm from (Northeast United State - live near Diablo Freeride Park, actually) it's steep, rocky, and pretty tight as far as the corners go. I'm the kind of guy that is (trying to be) more of a finesse rider - I don't plow through obstacles - I try to tiptoe over them.

With the low BB on the Sunday you will defintely feel stable in the corners - the bike itself is very nimble and the wheelbase for a 17" is only 45.25" or 1149mm. The WB will have a large influence on flick-ability, but like what Udi and I were saying - the 17" should be perfect for you.

 

[Vena]

I just started riding my new Sunday, we have lot of rocks over here, but also some fast tracks.
Well i'm 6.1" and riding a medium Sunday i feel at home, stable as hell when you push on fast sections and corners but really easy to get in tight turns.
I wouldn't get a 16" i think that's too small also for you, the perfect size for most people is the medium, i think that if you get a short 50 stem you will find definatly more comfortable on the 17".
I thought that the low bb was a problem over the big rocky sections but it's not.
I definatly love my Sunday.

 

[Stickler]

Unfortunately this is correct, however Iron Horse is now making a new link to work around the size/shape of the shock. This new design will be available on all of the 08' bikes, as well as seperate linkage kits where you can just by the lower link seperately if you want to.

I intended to buy the Vivid when it became available, but didn't know there was a fit issue. Any idea how much the new link will cost?

Would like to see how much the 2008 lower link differs from past years. Does anyone have a picture of the 2008 lower link?

 

[S.K.C.]

I intended to buy the Vivid when it became available, but didn't know there was a fit issue. Any idea how much the new link will cost?

Would like to see how much the 2008 lower link differs from past years. Does anyone have a picture of the 2008 lower link?

Pricing on the new lower link is still being determined - actually the first batch of 08' links should be rolling off the manufacturing line any day now!

No pics yet due to the previously mentioned, but as soon as I.H. gets some to snap some shots, I'll post them up. The 08' Sunday WC completes already have the new upgraded linkage, but as of right now, those bikes are moving pretty quickly - so to track one down that's not tagged for delivery, bust it out of it's box, tear it down to get at the links...

dw probably has some CAD pics of the new lower link... I'll give him a shout and see what I can come up with.

 

[Stickler]

Pricing on the new lower link is still being determined - actually the first batch of 08' links should be rolling off the manufacturing line any day now!

No pics yet due to the previously mentioned, but as soon as I.H. gets some to snap some shots, I'll post them up. The 08' Sunday WC completes already have the new upgraded linkage, but as of right now, those bikes are moving pretty quickly - so to track one down that's not tagged for delivery, bust it out of it's box, tear it down to get at the links...

dw probably has some CAD pics of the new lower link... I'll give him a shout and see what I can come up with.

I have seen the 2008 factory frame already---but didn't think to look at the lower link while I was in the shop. Just wondering what the clearance issues are like on my 2006 linkage---Do you know if the new link had to be heavily modified or just a little trimming?

 

[Sgt.Retro]

Has anyone here ever tried a Rock Shox Domain in a Sunday?

Any opinions / regrets on that?

 

[ska todd]

Would like to see how much the 2008 lower link differs from past years. Does anyone have a picture of the 2008 lower link?

The Vivid links look virtually identical to the 07 ones; just a small relief for the spot where there is a little contact.

First batches of 08 frames (ie. ones shipped w/ DHX's) use the 07 link still.

-ska todd

 

[S.K.C.]

UPDATE

Main page now updated - only a beta version, but more updates and info to come in the next few days.

Enjoy!

- S.K.C.

 

[Vena]

I just built my Sunday with a Shimano 105 super short cage with a road cassette.
The first problem was that was hitting the frame when riding, so i put some silicon on the frame to fix it.
Now the problem is fixed but there is a new one: the derailleur can't go on the highter and lower gear, i tryed to let it work, but it doesnt want to work properly.

Anyone with the same problem? How did you fix it?

Can road derailleurs work properly on the Sunday?

 

[S.K.C.]

EDIT: strange... shoould work with a road cassette.

Could be that wacky Low-Normal / High-Irregular shifting that Shimano uses... :biggrin: I've heard of this happening before on other bikes (mostly Horst-Link type rigs).

Is your derailleur hanger bent?

 

[Sgt.Retro]

Has anyone here ever tried a Rock Shox Domain in a Sunday?

Any opinions / regrets / experiences ?

 

[Udi]

Can road derailleurs work properly on the Sunday?

Tried reading your own thread before asking the question again?

http://ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192108

 

[toodles]

Well you can fit a 08 Roco WC Air on a Sunday... just. I had to take the valve cap off mine to clear the lower link.

 

[pelo]

Hmm. Thinking about running an air shock too. Do you like it?

 

[S.K.C.]

IH tests with an Air shock on the Sunday have been varied - Ska Todd ran a DHX Air on his personal Sunday at Diablo last year and found that it overheated and lacked mid-stroke performance. Keep in mind that Todd is around 200lbs. and over 6 feet tall so this probably has something to do with it.

If you are a light rider (under 130lbs.) you may be able to get away with running an Air shock for DH racing, but there may still be overheating issues.

Haven't tried the new 08' Rocco Air yet, so no testing info there.

 

[pelo]

Ok, thanks S.K.C.. I´m 159lbs. I kind of like the feeling of air shocks, so I might try it out.

 

[toodles]

Hmm. Thinking about running an air shock too. Do you like it?

Yeah she's a tight squeeze to get in and the setup sucks (have to remove and reinstall to change air pressure) but now it's rolling it feels as nice as any coil I've ridden. The Roco Air isn't as light as the DHX Air but it's still half a pound lighter than than my old Roco with Ti 350lb spring.

If anyone is curious... the 9.5 x 3.0 Roco WC Air comes in at 554g with the mounting hardware. The Roco TST coil shock is 462g + whatever spring you're running (312g for my Ti 350).

The ability to infinitely tune the spring rate to suit yourself is a bonus of the air shock, especially when MTB spring manufacturers have no idea of what the word 'tolerance' means.

 

[toodles]

If you are a light rider (under 130lbs.) you may be able to get away with running an Air shock for DH racing, but there may still be overheating issues.

I dunno about that myself. I think a lot of the 'overheating' stuff that people go on about is crap or recycled from a guy who knows a guy.

There's a few guys around here running air shocks in DH bikes and I've never heard of any problems.

 

[Udi]

I just wish people who haven't actually tried it (as in, owned the shock, tuned it for their bike and spent a few months giving it a fair go) would stop commenting on them - because it'd mean more real rider opinions and less BS.

For each person that has actually tried it and not liked it, there would be 1-2 people that have actually liked it. How many people on here have you seen running air shocks in V10's and M3's? I can count at least 3. Much higher leverage ratios on those compared to the sunday, and they seem quite happy. Now I know of at least 4 that are running them in sundays too, and so far so good.

It's just a shame the amount of regurgitated BS sways the vote and stops people (who might just like it!) from getting to try it out.

 

[skiforfree33]

I was wondering if someone know of a site where it gives you a step by step instructions on how to change the upper and lower linkage and the bears when you are upgrading from 06 linkage to 07 linkage ?

 

[S.K.C.]

I just wish people who haven't actually tried it (as in, owned the shock, tuned it for their bike and spent a few months giving it a fair go) would stop commenting on them - because it'd mean more real rider opinions and less BS.

For each person that has actually tried it and not liked it, there would be 1-2 people that have actually liked it. How many people on here have you seen running air shocks in V10's and M3's? I can count at least 3. Much higher leverage ratios on those compared to the sunday, and they seem quite happy. Now I know of at least 4 that are running them in sundays too, and so far so good.

It's just a shame the amount of regurgitated BS sways the vote and stops people (who might just like it!) from getting to try it out.

You are absolutely right - it may work for some people on their Sunday, and not for others. But during the testing period that Todd has done, he found that it wasn't a viable option for him (or a guy his size). A lighter rider could definitely benefit from an air shock on the Sunday. What is important is for people to have the positive and negative feedback out there so they can make an educated decision about how to spend their money. It would be a waste of a lot of cash to buy an air shock for your bike only to find that it won't work for you, your riding style, etc. - so the point is to try to get out useful information that people can benefit from.

For what it's worth: Sam used a DHX Air on his SSO Type-6 a few years back at Sea Otter, but more recently has switched to a coil shock because he prefers the ruggedness and durability of a coil. The SSO is basically a smaller, shorter travel version of the Sunday - it has a very similar leverage ratio and squat curve to that of it's big brother. Given that Sea Otter is a pretty smooth track (DH and 4x) this would add another useful bit of info in that Air shocks may be better suited to smoother courses that aren't very rocky.

Each piece of equipment on the bike has it strengths and weaknessess depending on the rider, and track conditions - every bit of real-world info can help you choose what is best for you.

I was wondering if someone know of a site where it gives you a step by step instructions on how to change the upper and lower linkage and the bears when you are upgrading from 06 linkage to 07 linkage ?

Check out the first page of this thread - everything you need is there!

:biggrin:

 

[Udi]

SKC, I think you kinda missed the point I was trying to make but I'll leave it be.

 

[S.K.C.]

Whoops...

My bad.



My speed-reading leaves skid-marks on the inside of my brain sometimes...

 

[hungryleprican]

I may be shooting in the dark but are there any new linkage kits available yet that I can purchase?? I emailed someone back in august and they said 90-120 days


EDIT: wait nevermind I read the front page and got my question answered

 

[LukeD]

haha i just noticed my "DW Works" skunk got put on this thread! cool!

 

[S.K.C.]

Heh - glad you like it - thought I'd put it to good use.

:biggrin:

I overhauled the main page of the thread a few days ago - look for more info to come soon on the Vivid, linkage compatibility, 08' bike specs, etc.

-S.K.C.

 

[sbabuser]

I dunno about that myself. I think a lot of the 'overheating' stuff that people go on about is crap or recycled from a guy who knows a guy.

There's a few guys around here running air shocks in DH bikes and I've never heard of any problems.

I don't know of anybody running an air shock on a sunday, but SylentK had some issues w/ the dhxa on his nomad during a day at Keystone, where it appeared overheating was an issue.

 

[SylentK]

I don't know of anybody running an air shock on a sunday, but SylentK had some issues w/ the dhxa on his nomad during a day at Keystone, where it appeared overheating was an issue.

I'm sylentk and I approve this message!

Seriously, the thing had lost all rebound and just plain felt like poo. I weigh 190lbs. w/gear. Perhaps the featherweights can get away with running an air shock for DH, but I can't.

 

[buckoW]

The nomad is way more linear than a Sunday therefore making the valving work overtime to get a descent feeling. Bikes with better leverage ratios can be run with air shocks in DH applications with more success. I think it is more the Nomad that didn't perform, not the DHX air.