I weigh ~ 190lbs and run a 350. It would bottom if I was hucking, but that is about it....I would like to maybe try a 375 but there is no way I would ever run a 450 on the Sunday...I did not even run a 450 on my Turner dhr. Your friend smokes crack.
The Official Iron Horse Sunday / DW-Link Tech. & Tuning Section
- Thread starter S.K.C.
- Start date
Agreed. I'm the same weight and I run a 350. I ran a 300 the first year I was on a Sunday and that was actually ok, but I switched to a 350 last year because I wanted the bike to sit a little higher in the travel - after I broke my big toe at Whistler with the 300
Just received my World Cup fameset today with the Vivid. From what I have been reading it would seem from the spring rate suggestions for a 150 lb. rider I would need a maximum of a 275 lb. spring. Most likely a 250 lb. spring. If anyone has detail they can post it would be a big help for us lightweights.
@ davep: It´s ok but when i look at the first site of this thread i see that you with 190lb weight should mount a 400lb - 450 lb spring.
Can i ride this bike good with a smaller spring rate? I have one 275 spring here and i think i will mount this spring and test the bike.
Can i ride this bike good with a smaller spring rate? I have one 275 spring here and i think i will mount this spring and test the bike.
RCS has a ti spring for the DHX application they will ship to you directly. super friendly and helpful to deal with.
i could sell you a used #300 ti spring from my Sunday. it won't fit the vivid
I've just read about 20 pages of this forum and I'm unsure as what spring to get too. I weigh about 85kg and so from the 1st page thats in between the 350lb-400lb spring weights and the 400-450lb weights on a DHX. So I guess 400 would be perfect. But having said that, in my 20 pages of headache causing sifting through this thread, I saw many posts of people on the heavier side being happy with a 300lb spring.
I realise that this question has come up many times before, but some clrification would be appreciated - thanks in advance.
There is no rule set in stone that any one spring rate will be perfect for you - personal preference (within reason) can also be a factor. That said, I would try a 350 if I were you.
Obviously I agree with dog.
The frame comes with a 300 (at least it did). See if the shop will swap you for a 350....it will be close to what you need. Worst case, spend $20 and buy steel spring.
I would highly suggest at least trying a couple steel springs before springing for Ti if that is your plan.
Keep in mind that the sunday is fairly linear, and part of the key (on a DHX or any other shock with this adjustability) is to adjust for max bottom out resistance. It will use more travel more often than some highly progressive frames (on high speed hits when it should!)....yet it does not seem to wallow or bog.
The frame comes with a 300 (at least it did). See if the shop will swap you for a 350....it will be close to what you need. Worst case, spend $20 and buy steel spring.
I would highly suggest at least trying a couple steel springs before springing for Ti if that is your plan.
Keep in mind that the sunday is fairly linear, and part of the key (on a DHX or any other shock with this adjustability) is to adjust for max bottom out resistance. It will use more travel more often than some highly progressive frames (on high speed hits when it should!)....yet it does not seem to wallow or bog.
I am around 86kg with full kit and run a 400 Ti, I was on a 350 Steal the last season which was too soft for me but can work for some other riders.
It also depends on the tracks that you ride.
Hey there just wondering if anyone could help me with a question about
ti hardware for an ironhorse sunday. I'm looking to replace all the frame (not the shock mounting hardware), brake/deraillure mounting, pinch and boxxer crown and stem bolts.
I'm keen to get them from Probolt in the UK but the issue is the bolt dimensions, does anyone have them off hand.
Also I'm keen to get a ti spring on the Vivid can you recommend a good place to get one.
Cheers
ti hardware for an ironhorse sunday. I'm looking to replace all the frame (not the shock mounting hardware), brake/deraillure mounting, pinch and boxxer crown and stem bolts.
I'm keen to get them from Probolt in the UK but the issue is the bolt dimensions, does anyone have them off hand.
Also I'm keen to get a ti spring on the Vivid can you recommend a good place to get one.
Cheers
search obtanium performance on google. they make ti springs for the vivid, they are from the states, but i think they would ship to the UK. other than that avy/cane creek uses the came 1.5ID springs
You can get the bolt dimensions for the Sunday here:
http://ironhorsebikes.com/downloads/
Go down to "Tech Documents" and click on "Sunday Frame"
Heh - sorry. Been away for a bit.
The tech doc you seek can also be found on the first page.
The tech doc you seek can also be found on the first page.
OK, i have to ask a second time ....
At the moment I ride my sunday wc 2007 with a DHX5.0 and 275 lb steel spring. Low speed compression is open, Bottom Out is at max and air pressure about 110 psi. My weight with clothes and protection is about 70 kg (155lb)
Yesterday i ride at my home track. It is a easy singletrail with only small jumps, small drops (half meter) and a few stairs. I looked at the shock and at the drops and riding the stairs fast i needed the whole travel.
Now i think what is going on when i ride at a good DH-course with long jumps, huge gaps and drops up to two meters... i will crash my axle???
Do you really think that a 275 or 300 spring is the best for me? I have doubt about this.
Please help me... thank you all!
At the moment I ride my sunday wc 2007 with a DHX5.0 and 275 lb steel spring. Low speed compression is open, Bottom Out is at max and air pressure about 110 psi. My weight with clothes and protection is about 70 kg (155lb)
Yesterday i ride at my home track. It is a easy singletrail with only small jumps, small drops (half meter) and a few stairs. I looked at the shock and at the drops and riding the stairs fast i needed the whole travel.
Now i think what is going on when i ride at a good DH-course with long jumps, huge gaps and drops up to two meters... i will crash my axle???
Do you really think that a 275 or 300 spring is the best for me? I have doubt about this.
Please help me... thank you all!
Check your sag - if you are running more than 35% you should try going up to the next spring rate (300 lbs. in your case).
You can find the proper method for measuring sag on the front page toward the very top.
Hope this helps.
You can find the proper method for measuring sag on the front page toward the very top.
Hope this helps.
I have round about 25mm SAG... 33%...
300lbs or better 350 for more safety?
And please have a look at this axle... This is the lower shock axle... what do you mean?
300lbs or better 350 for more safety?
And please have a look at this axle... This is the lower shock axle... what do you mean?
Hmmm...
Are you measuring it as directed?
If you are still bottoming excessively, then I would go to a 300lbs. spring. Steel springs from FOX are something like $28USD depending on how big you go.
I'll pass the pic along to CarlE and see what he has to say.
Are you measuring it as directed?
If you are still bottoming excessively, then I would go to a 300lbs. spring. Steel springs from FOX are something like $28USD depending on how big you go.
I'll pass the pic along to CarlE and see what he has to say.
SKC, you don't want to know how expensive FOX Springs in germany are...
there is no streetprice only retailer price: 69 Euros!!!
there is no streetprice only retailer price: 69 Euros!!!
If I were to just go by looks I'd say that pin is shot. Is there any up and down play when that pin is installed? Pictures can be tough for stuff like this, it's hard to see how deep that scoring is and it can be hard to tell what's a score mark and what's just grease or dirt. Use your best judgement. If there's up and down play then the pin definitely needs to be changed.
This is the reason why i ask so much... 69 Euro ~ 100 US$ !!!!
I don´t want to buy two times!
Where can i buy this axle in USA and what´s the price? I must order this in USA because there is no distributor here in germany/europe.
CarlE ... i sent a PN a few days ago. What do you say?
Why would anyone order a spring at those prices? With the Euro so strong against the dollar it'd be cheaper to order from a US distributor as long as they can ship USPS.
I just sent you another PM, guess the first one didn't go through.
unfortunately it's a vabanque game, when the parts arrive at the german customs...
e.g.:
i had to pay another 45 euros taxes etc for my 08 linkkit...
noone to blame here (besides german customs).
it's just not so easy anymore...
e.g.:
i had to pay another 45 euros taxes etc for my 08 linkkit...
noone to blame here (besides german customs).
it's just not so easy anymore...
these work fine, no need for a fox labeled spring
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=15606
even cheaper, http://bike-components.de/catalog/Swinger%20Metel+Stahlfeder+f%FCr+240+mm only 14euros
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=15606
even cheaper, http://bike-components.de/catalog/Swinger%20Metel+Stahlfeder+f%FCr+240+mm only 14euros
Hi boozy1976
If you buy from a european retailer you shouln't have to pay import tax/duty.
I'd advise buying from chainreactioncycles.com or another decent EU retailer.
Good luck,
JT
If you buy from a european retailer you shouln't have to pay import tax/duty.
I'd advise buying from chainreactioncycles.com or another decent EU retailer.
Good luck,
JT
i'm rebuilding my '06 Elite and now i'm in the phase of replacing the bearings; i received from IH the replacement bearing kit and lower red link; for the lower link (the bearings in the frame) IH guys sent me the MAX E type bearings.
I would like to know for sure if I should also add spacers between the red link and the Max E bearings. (my technical gut says I should not use any spacers now, but I would like to be sure)
also, how do you guys take out the bearings? do you use a special "bearing removal tool" or different kind of bolts, nuts & spacers, like I did? (I'll share with you later my experience with DIY stores and "finding the perfect bolt" case - pics included
i'm going to replace also the bushings on the DHX 5.0 (have a new Heaky Duty Kit from TFT) but I can't seem to find the tool to take out the old ones with. Any useful advice?
Thanks.
I would like to know for sure if I should also add spacers between the red link and the Max E bearings. (my technical gut says I should not use any spacers now, but I would like to be sure)
also, how do you guys take out the bearings? do you use a special "bearing removal tool" or different kind of bolts, nuts & spacers, like I did? (I'll share with you later my experience with DIY stores and "finding the perfect bolt" case - pics included
i'm going to replace also the bushings on the DHX 5.0 (have a new Heaky Duty Kit from TFT) but I can't seem to find the tool to take out the old ones with. Any useful advice?
Thanks.
Don't use the spacers. The extended race takes the place of the spacer.i'm rebuilding my '06 Elite and now i'm in the phase of replacing the bearings; i received from IH the replacement bearing kit and lower red link; for the lower link (the bearings in the frame) IH guys sent me the MAX E type bearings.
I would like to know for sure if I should also add spacers between the red link and the Max E bearings. (my technical gut says I should not use any spacers now, but I would like to be sure)
also, how do you guys take out the bearings? do you use a special "bearing removal tool" or different kind of bolts, nuts & spacers, like I did? (I'll share with you later my experience with DIY stores and "finding the perfect bolt" case - pics included
i'm going to replace also the bushings on the DHX 5.0 (have a new Heaky Duty Kit from TFT) but I can't seem to find the tool to take out the old ones with. Any useful advice?
Thanks.
since you replace the bearings, you don't need a special tool....
also, how do you guys take out the bearings? do you use a special "bearing removal tool" or different kind of bolts, nuts & spacers, like I did? (I'll share with you later my experience with DIY stores and "finding the perfect bolt" case - pics included
Thanks.
just put them out as you like, even if you destroy them.
pay attention not to destroy anything on your frame!
I've been reading through this thread bit by bit for over a year. I rob whatever info I need for my Sunday at that moment. I hope I don't get flamed for asking this question, but I just have to. This week I updated my 05 Sunday WC with the 08 linkage, and a Vivid 5.1. Now...the setting suggestions for the Vivid are easy to find in this thread. But what I wonder is how much my "untuned" fork is effecting my ride. In vehicles, I understand how front and rear suspension MUST work together to work properly. As an amateur rider without the ability to "feel" my way through the tuning process, can somebody suggest a starting point for my fork that would be a good match for my Sunday rear end?
05 Sunday WC
Vivid 5.1 (A tune) 400lb spring
Fox 40 RC2 w/ti spring rated for my 180lb body, and enduro seals
I ride and race northeast DH. Like Snowshoe, Diablo, and Sugar Mtn. I am most concerned about the settings being correct for "racing." Pointing me toward an informative thread so that I might teach myself to fish, would be great for the future. I would LOVE to know enough to tune my own suspension for each individual course or weather condition. But how about now? Could you guys help me set up for the Diablo U.S.Open?
05 Sunday WC
Vivid 5.1 (A tune) 400lb spring
Fox 40 RC2 w/ti spring rated for my 180lb body, and enduro seals
I ride and race northeast DH. Like Snowshoe, Diablo, and Sugar Mtn. I am most concerned about the settings being correct for "racing." Pointing me toward an informative thread so that I might teach myself to fish, would be great for the future. I would LOVE to know enough to tune my own suspension for each individual course or weather condition. But how about now? Could you guys help me set up for the Diablo U.S.Open?
Do you get enough sag with a 400lb spring?I've been reading through this thread bit by bit for over a year. I rob whatever info I need for my Sunday at that moment. I hope I don't get flamed for asking this question, but I just have to. This week I updated my 05 Sunday WC with the 08 linkage, and a Vivid 5.1. Now...the setting suggestions for the Vivid are easy to find in this thread. But what I wonder is how much my "untuned" fork is effecting my ride. In vehicles, I understand how front and rear suspension MUST work together to work properly. As an amateur rider without the ability to "feel" my way through the tuning process, can somebody suggest a starting point for my fork that would be a good match for my Sunday rear end?
05 Sunday WC
Vivid 5.1 (A tune) 400lb spring
Fox 40 RC2 w/ti spring rated for my 180lb body, and enduro seals
I ride and race northeast DH. Like Snowshoe, Diablo, and Sugar Mtn. I am most concerned about the settings being correct for "racing." Pointing me toward an informative thread so that I might teach myself to fish, would be great for the future. I would LOVE to know enough to tune my own suspension for each individual course or weather condition. But how about now? Could you guys help me set up for the Diablo U.S.Open?
I'll answer your questions if you tell me where you found an 'A' tuned vivid.
I've been reading through this thread bit by bit for over a year. I rob whatever info I need for my Sunday at that moment. I hope I don't get flamed for asking this question, but I just have to. This week I updated my 05 Sunday WC with the 08 linkage, and a Vivid 5.1. Now...the setting suggestions for the Vivid are easy to find in this thread. But what I wonder is how much my "untuned" fork is effecting my ride. In vehicles, I understand how front and rear suspension MUST work together to work properly. As an amateur rider without the ability to "feel" my way through the tuning process, can somebody suggest a starting point for my fork that would be a good match for my Sunday rear end?
05 Sunday WC
Vivid 5.1 (A tune) 400lb spring
Fox 40 RC2 w/ti spring rated for my 180lb body, and enduro seals
I ride and race northeast DH. Like Snowshoe, Diablo, and Sugar Mtn. I am most concerned about the settings being correct for "racing." Pointing me toward an informative thread so that I might teach myself to fish, would be great for the future. I would LOVE to know enough to tune my own suspension for each individual course or weather condition. But how about now? Could you guys help me set up for the Diablo U.S.Open?
ok - am having a 'mare driving the search function tonight for some reason (new baby = fried brain)
I need to get a new set of bearing for my beautiful Ironhorse 7Point... they don't seem to be standard with NSK/SKF etc. but I remember seeing some link on this monster thread to a crowd that sells bearing kits. Can anyone help me with a name/link?
Thanks
(and can anyone answer my WTF moment IF these aren't standard units? Who designs something with non-standard bearings? I mean, REALLY, come on...)
I need to get a new set of bearing for my beautiful Ironhorse 7Point... they don't seem to be standard with NSK/SKF etc. but I remember seeing some link on this monster thread to a crowd that sells bearing kits. Can anyone help me with a name/link?
Thanks
(and can anyone answer my WTF moment IF these aren't standard units? Who designs something with non-standard bearings? I mean, REALLY, come on...)
OB1, this is Qui Gon Jinn - I'm here to help homey.
:biggrin:
OK - so the Vivid is a pretty cool shock. It is highly tuneable and is not encumbered with pedaling platforms or the like. I'm a bit surprised that you are running a 4000# spring with the Vivid given your weight because by comparison to a Fox DHX the Vivid usually runs a lower spring rate. For example, I weigh 165 lbs. and on my DHX I run a 350 lbs. spring. For a Vivid I would most likely run a 300# spring. If the rear end of the bike feels choppy even with the compression dialed in properly you might want to go down to a 350# spring.
SO, the big question is: What is your style grasshopper? (Tiger, Crane, Praying Mantis...?) :biggrin: Do you like to pump the suspension to help hop over obstacles, or do you like to just "point and shoot" (plow through everything in front of you -not really recommended, but hey - it happens sometimes) :biggrin:
You are absolutely correct in stating that the front and rear suspension must be balanced. Are you familiar with the concepts of progressive, linear, high speed compression, low speed compression and rebound? For example - The Fox 40 is pretty much what is known as a "linear" fork, meaning that as the fork compresses, its compressing characteristics remain constant throughout the fork's travel - it does not get harder to compress as it reaches end travel. You CAN add what is called "bottom out" which does exactly what it says: adds more bottom out control preventing the fork from bottoming out. If a fork is "progressive" it means that the fork gradually increases its compression resistance as it compresses through it's travel.
With a few extreme exceptions (such as the crazy-steep Champery course from last year) pros usually find their "sweet spot" with their suspension and then keep it that way from course to course. It is not necessary to make drastic changes in suspension every time you ride a new course - add a bit of low speed comp. here - back off the rebound there, and you're good to go.
But before we get into the guts of this I need to know how you like to ride. For the Open, I have a setup that works for me, but I have a Boxxer, a DHX and possibly a different riding style than you, so I can't really say: "Well, this is what I do so try that..."
Hope this helps you get started on the Way.
:biggrin:
OK - so the Vivid is a pretty cool shock. It is highly tuneable and is not encumbered with pedaling platforms or the like. I'm a bit surprised that you are running a 4000# spring with the Vivid given your weight because by comparison to a Fox DHX the Vivid usually runs a lower spring rate. For example, I weigh 165 lbs. and on my DHX I run a 350 lbs. spring. For a Vivid I would most likely run a 300# spring. If the rear end of the bike feels choppy even with the compression dialed in properly you might want to go down to a 350# spring.
SO, the big question is: What is your style grasshopper? (Tiger, Crane, Praying Mantis...?) :biggrin: Do you like to pump the suspension to help hop over obstacles, or do you like to just "point and shoot" (plow through everything in front of you -not really recommended, but hey - it happens sometimes) :biggrin:
You are absolutely correct in stating that the front and rear suspension must be balanced. Are you familiar with the concepts of progressive, linear, high speed compression, low speed compression and rebound? For example - The Fox 40 is pretty much what is known as a "linear" fork, meaning that as the fork compresses, its compressing characteristics remain constant throughout the fork's travel - it does not get harder to compress as it reaches end travel. You CAN add what is called "bottom out" which does exactly what it says: adds more bottom out control preventing the fork from bottoming out. If a fork is "progressive" it means that the fork gradually increases its compression resistance as it compresses through it's travel.
With a few extreme exceptions (such as the crazy-steep Champery course from last year) pros usually find their "sweet spot" with their suspension and then keep it that way from course to course. It is not necessary to make drastic changes in suspension every time you ride a new course - add a bit of low speed comp. here - back off the rebound there, and you're good to go.
But before we get into the guts of this I need to know how you like to ride. For the Open, I have a setup that works for me, but I have a Boxxer, a DHX and possibly a different riding style than you, so I can't really say: "Well, this is what I do so try that..."
Hope this helps you get started on the Way.
enduro sells full kits for the frame: http://www.enduroforkseals.com/id55.html they dont list actual part #s to cross reference, but they do sell a complete kit.
Cheers dude.
That's an interresting comment about the spring rate. I don't know why he chose to put that on. He did mention that I'm probably closer to 190 with all my gear on. The mechanic at my LBS is also my friend. He knows a TON more than me, so I just put my faith in him. I'll make sure we have a 350 spring around just in case.
As for my style, I don't know what species of animal I would compare to. My wife might say "deffinetly not a walrus." Not a nice comment if you think about it.
But i'm probably like a lot of ex-bmxers. Years of manual, pump, manual, has made me a smooth rider who loves flat pedals, and always rides to carry the most momentum. Everything you said about the Fox being linear, etc, is all foreign talk for me. I've never even touched the knobs on my fork. What a waste of a top of the line fork!
I need to understand more. I blew out my WC fork, and had it re-done by sram. I haven't riden it since because I bought this Fox while I was waiting for it. SRAM treated me well by the way.P.S. As for the other comment asking how I got an "A" tune, that's a state secret. Actually, I don't know. But I know it took a lot of effort by a buddy of mine who can usually get anything he wants.
To clarify, OB1's Vivid shipped with a 300# spring. I ordered him a 400# spring based on him being on the lower side of the 180 and up weight, and the first page of this thread suggested 400-450 for his weight. So he will have two springs to choose from, and we can always get him another spring if needed. With gear, armor and water, he's proabably pushing 200#.