isnt that just an ellsworth? If it was the 2010 sunday that DW sketched out forever ago id be in farmingdale, NY right now with a fistful of buyitnow money
dont do that...
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The Official Iron Horse Sunday / DW-Link Tech. & Tuning Section
- Thread starter S.K.C.
- Start date
that thing is wild! It's either right or a remarkable copy. Has the correct axle and dropout and has lots of sunday-esque features. I wonder what it'll sell for. $275 is a steal, but the fork alone is worth quite a bit more.
Ha, I don't know about that. If the price is right, I might, but I doubt it'll stay anywhere below $800. Besides, while what I liked best about the sunday was that the overall package was dialed (1.5in headtube, great geometry out of the box, ISCG05, etc), this one has questionable suspension geometry, irreplaceable parts, and keeps the sunday's dreadful shock location. Maybe they revised the shock rate, but unless the whole package goes for less than $500, I'm out. Add to that my experience with the Sunday was severely tarnished by the crappy shock on there, and I don't know if I'd be a good judge.sandwich, buy itand compare it with your former experience of original Sunday
300$ is way cheap.
Can I ask why not? Plenty have done it without a problem it seems.
He has, search this thread.
Hey guys. What head angle are y'all running? Thinking of putting in some K9 -2 cups.
Heres my frame..
http://gp1.pinkbike.org/p6pb9022099/p5pb9022099.jpg
I want to cut out the seat tube, but dont want to paint it back up afterwards.
*edit* I also need a new lower sock bolt, anyone know where to get one? This site on the front page has one listed, not sure if they still do it though.
http://www.pearcecycles.co.uk/brand/?brand_id=1
Heres my frame..
http://gp1.pinkbike.org/p6pb9022099/p5pb9022099.jpg
I want to cut out the seat tube, but dont want to paint it back up afterwards.
*edit* I also need a new lower sock bolt, anyone know where to get one? This site on the front page has one listed, not sure if they still do it though.
http://www.pearcecycles.co.uk/brand/?brand_id=1
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Rode mine with -1.5*, didn't like it. Would have switched back to 64* for my cat 2 lazy ass. Steering was a bit too lax and not quite "sharp" enough for the speeds I was going. If you're an Udi riding whistler all day long, maybe keep it!
Please explain! 236mm I2I shocks are non-existant. And offset-bushes won't work very well with the frame.
The thing would bottom-out before the shock does. I bought a RC4 which came that way 235 or 236mm (the body was cut down) and I was to lazy to sell the shock and just kept it : ) I've heard it's not good to have shorter shock but I can not find any difference in pedaling or anything else.Please explain! 236mm I2I shocks are non-existant. And offset-bushes won't work very well with the frame.
Nah it's just on the edge of touching the metal support link on the rear.However the seat is dangerously close to my rear tyre sometimes
off topic - BG change your colour on your Sunday seriosno
Wow, sorry - totally forgot RC4s are able to be cut down - their design makes this possible. Ans as far as i know, 6mm is the maximum you can shorten them. And the problem i was refering to was the support link hitting the seattube - screw the saddle touching the tyre, the frame's much more important! When we did some calculations on an L frame of a friend of mine, it could receive only 2mm of shortening before hitting the seattube. So, there was no sense in doing this. Really curious as to how yours is possible - mind if you share a pic or two of your bike?
have you seen it?
http://www.vitalmtb.com/features/Ebay-Find-Prototype-2009-Ironhorse-Sunday-with-ICT-Suspension,418
looks nice.
but I think the DW LINK is better
http://www.vitalmtb.com/features/Ebay-Find-Prototype-2009-Ironhorse-Sunday-with-ICT-Suspension,418
looks nice.
but I think the DW LINK is better
I almost bid $ 950 but I was hesitant because of the size of the frame if not I would have bought it, I contacted the seller for some info on the other frame that stays see the size if it is shorter than that there I wait replyhave you seen it?
http://www.vitalmtb.com/features/Ebay-Find-Prototype-2009-Ironhorse-Sunday-with-ICT-Suspension,418
looks nice.
but I think the DW LINK is better
^^^ Very nice.
Well, when the Sunday was on the market, the builds were with a Boxxer, which i think has an A2C of either 565mm, or a 572mm. And they said the frame has a 65 degrees HA. As far as i know, there are "Factory" frames which have a 66 degree HA. A friend of mine has one and said at first the HA was 66, but now has a custom anglset to slacken it out by around 4 degrees to 62.
Only you can answer this question
Depends on the trials you ride and so on .....
It's completely personal preference and basically it does not matter what HA you have till you get nice balanced bike.
When you go slacker than you needed to your bike becomes chopper and it's really hard to turn.
Hope this helps.
As stated, I tried -1.5 cups for 63.5* and thought it was a challenge to take advantage of a bike that slack, but I'm not a super fast guy. I would be happy with a 64* HA on a bike that I ride everywhere at non-WC speeds.
Recently bought a used Sunday and its been giving me some bother.
When i grab my back wheel and pull it side to side, theres play between back of DW link where it connects to the frame, I have checked the 2 bearings at the rear of the DW link and one feels pretty gritty...
I have read about DW links becoming ovalised and causing play at this point in the frame. Are my bearings just worn out and causing the play? Or is it something more serious?
When i grab my back wheel and pull it side to side, theres play between back of DW link where it connects to the frame, I have checked the 2 bearings at the rear of the DW link and one feels pretty gritty...
I have read about DW links becoming ovalised and causing play at this point in the frame. Are my bearings just worn out and causing the play? Or is it something more serious?
You could have worn out your dw link, in which case you should replace the rear dw link axle + bearings and assemble the lot with some loctite bearing retainer compound in the interface between the dw link and the axle that runs through it, to stop the axle spinning in the link (which wears it out) and to ensure that the axle spins in the bearings.
on that note, is it better to apply the compound to the inside of the link then slide the axle in or the outside of the axle? I want to make it as un-messy as possible this time!
on that note, is it better to apply the compound to the inside of the link then slide the axle in or the outside of the axle? I want to make it as un-messy as possible this time!
So is it definitely my DW link? I forgot to mention I have just replaced the axle but I have not replaced the bearings, one of which feels pretty rough. Im going to have a go at replacing the bearings first as tracking down a DW link doesnt seem to be easy and will be more costly.You could have worn out your dw link, in which case you should replace the rear dw link axle + bearings and assemble the lot with some loctite bearing retainer compound in the interface between the dw link and the axle that runs through it, to stop the axle spinning in the link (which wears it out) and to ensure that the axle spins in the bearings.
on that note, is it better to apply the compound to the inside of the link then slide the axle in or the outside of the axle? I want to make it as un-messy as possible this time!
Thank you for the tip about bearing retainer compound though! Never heard of that before
what kind of loctite recommend?
think its 609 but not 100% sure, Udi has it covered in this thread somewhere
Its more important that there arent any gaps in the compound when you apply it, you can clean up the excess after you put it back together. I put it on both the axle and the link, and mine has remained solid for a couple months now.on that note, is it better to apply the compound to the inside of the link then slide the axle in or the outside of the axle? I want to make it as un-messy as possible this time!
07-09 links can be found here: http://www.licycleworx.com/product_p/ih-sunll.htm
I dont know about 05-06 links, but if you need to replace the link it would make a lot of sense to get the front pivot hardware and swap to the 07 lower link.
Awesome!
I was just about to ask about this. Recently got my hands on an 06 bike after deciding it was a mistake to sell my 07 bike a couple of years ago.
Apparently the guy's replaced all pivot hardware, but it's good to hear that you can upgrade to the 07 stuff. In preparation for any loose pivots that might develop I might go and buy all the 07 kit anyway.
I take it there's no actual difference with the pivot locations in the two linkage types? The 07 linkages just have different diameter holes and less material on them, right?
I'm guessing running an 06 upper link and 07 lower link wouldn't be any issue?
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Replaced the stock e13 reducers, and installed -2 deg works component headset on my frame.
previous set up: lower bar height, boxxer short crown, microspacers (fsa) between the top crown and compression wedge. stanchions max out.
Can I get away also of not using the top bearing cover of the works components, under the top crown?
Will the top bearing get gritty overtime as this is exposed/open to the elements without the top cover?
previous set up: lower bar height, boxxer short crown, microspacers (fsa) between the top crown and compression wedge. stanchions max out.
Can I get away also of not using the top bearing cover of the works components, under the top crown?
Will the top bearing get gritty overtime as this is exposed/open to the elements without the top cover?
I wouldnt worry about the bearings. Ive never gone without the cover on my works headset but I have on a few others. Just use enough spacers to keep the crown off the upper cup.
Kicking around the idea of getting an '06 sunday for a good deal. Supposedly this is the world cup. Is there any way to tell? Any durability issues to look for? I read here that the lower link is updated, so that's good...
I saw that the american 07 factory is lighter than the taiwan frames- is this 06 world cup the heaviest version? After reviewing the first post, I'm still unsure. Am I wasting my time, or should I look into it. A little leary of a six year old frame, but I've been seeing enough people still using them that I'm considering it. Do the headtubes ever shear off of these things? Ok I think thats it.
I saw that the american 07 factory is lighter than the taiwan frames- is this 06 world cup the heaviest version? After reviewing the first post, I'm still unsure. Am I wasting my time, or should I look into it. A little leary of a six year old frame, but I've been seeing enough people still using them that I'm considering it. Do the headtubes ever shear off of these things? Ok I think thats it.
They seemed pretty durable to me. Two seasons under a trumpore and about 2.5 with me, no signs of cracking or anything.
I think they were heavily revised in 07...ie, the 0506 frames were a bit different than 0708, but if you're not scared of a half pound of weight...
If you get a good deal on it, I'd still consider it. Mine was a pretty fun bike, but figured out the shock ferrchrissakes...being able to pick any shock I want on my current bike is really pretty nice.
I think they were heavily revised in 07...ie, the 0506 frames were a bit different than 0708, but if you're not scared of a half pound of weight...
If you get a good deal on it, I'd still consider it. Mine was a pretty fun bike, but figured out the shock ferrchrissakes...being able to pick any shock I want on my current bike is really pretty nice.
Haha, sure. The best thing about the sunday frames, besides their geometry and robustness, is the wealth of information you can get on them. Plus, they're cheap. They really don't do anything wrong besides the regressive shock rate, but you can supposedly correct that with an RC4. You can get anglesets, drill out your seat mast, run them single crown, double crown, etc. They're neat bikes that pedal really well and rip through the corners, but their taiwaniness can lead to issues, and mine had a nasty spike 2/3 into the travel that I think was related to my DHX. I never got it retuned or pushed or anything, mostly because I was an idiot, but I wanted to try something else.
All 07+ frames are 0.9lbs lighter than previous frames, and all have the updated F7 linkage. It's worth getting an 07+ if you can, but there are no glaring durability issues with the 06 frames apart from maybe having a few little linkage dramas (which you can upgrade anyway, if you can find the parts). I retired my 07 after riding it for about 6 years (two swiss alps seasons and one whistler season) and it's still sitting in my room with zero cracks or failures.
Like Sandwich suggested, the coolest thing is that they were quite far ahead of their time when they came out and left a lot of room for modernizing, so it's easy to still be competitive on one today. Acceleration is second to none, and cornering is still class-leading. They do work best with an RC4.
The shock rate really does not digress that much (we measured it quite accurately on a custom jig and fed the data through linkage) and is easily corrected with any progressive shock to resist bottoming. What makes it less than perfect is actually that there isn't enough progression at the beginning of the stroke (even though it is still progressive) so it won't take the edge off bumps quite as well as a more modern design. The other thing is they aren't the poppiest bike, partially due to the lack of strong progression initially, and partially due to generating end-stroke progression via damping (which absorbs energy) rather than mechanically / via spring rate (which stores and returns energy to the rider).
With careful shock choice and shock tuning though they are still brilliant bikes though.
Like Sandwich suggested, the coolest thing is that they were quite far ahead of their time when they came out and left a lot of room for modernizing, so it's easy to still be competitive on one today. Acceleration is second to none, and cornering is still class-leading. They do work best with an RC4.
The shock rate really does not digress that much (we measured it quite accurately on a custom jig and fed the data through linkage) and is easily corrected with any progressive shock to resist bottoming. What makes it less than perfect is actually that there isn't enough progression at the beginning of the stroke (even though it is still progressive) so it won't take the edge off bumps quite as well as a more modern design. The other thing is they aren't the poppiest bike, partially due to the lack of strong progression initially, and partially due to generating end-stroke progression via damping (which absorbs energy) rather than mechanically / via spring rate (which stores and returns energy to the rider).
With careful shock choice and shock tuning though they are still brilliant bikes though.
30x10mm for 07+
I am unsure for 05-06 frames without an F7 linkage.
No difference in pivot locations, geometry and suspension kinematics of Sunday frames were identical throughout production for consumer frames (05-09). Some small geometry changes for Sam Hill I believe. No issue with running different year links like you said.
As richgardiner said, to fix play between the rear pivot of the lower linkage and the link itself, loctite 609 retaining compound works well. It is a green liquid. As bengxe said, it is good to be generous with it and clean up the excess later, and it's very important to leave it for full cure time (at least 24 hours) immediately after assembling the pivot.
23x8mm on the older pre F7.
Some may disagree on the play or need for a bearing on the lower shock eye but I'm a fan of the RWC bearing on the older pre F7 lower link. I find its hard to get everything to squeeze together adequately when you tighten the lower pin and keep shock reducer bushing from spinning instead of the du busing rotating around the shock reducer.
On my friends with the older link running updated max-e bearings and the addition of shims from mcmaster we got that thing dialed. It took and allot of patience but it can be done.
The F7 fixes all this so that's why its such a recommended up grade.
I thought I read somewhere that Fox has some new busing instead of a DU that is less friction. That would be sweet instead of the RWC bearing. Any one have a link to that info?
Al
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