[HardtailHack]

Internal routing on Cr-Mo frames with no sealed tube to feed the cable through.
Do people not know that steel rusts? You don't get cool points for patina on the inside.

Oh, and it has a flat mount brake, guess it's still better than IS.

 

[schwaaa31]

Why would anyone think this is a good idea? Im not a fan of internal routing to begin with, but this is just wild.

 

[slimshady]

Why would anyone think this is a good idea? Im not a fan of internal routing to begin with, but this is just wild. View attachment 171636

It's all about showing the world you're a Pastafarian in a subtle way!

 

[dump]

I don't think they've gone up all that much looking at ~equivalent spec bikes, although there are some stupid gucci builds now. However, market correction has been happening sporadically, so you get big price increases all at once.

Do you consider gucci builds the ones with $2000+ wheelsets? Places like pinkbike would have you believe this is the norm. Looking around on the trails, about 1/4 of the bikes have them.

 

[djjohnr]

Do you consider gucci builds the ones with $2000+ wheelsets? Places like pinkbike would have you believe this is the norm. Looking around on the trails, about 1/4 of the bikes have them.

Yeah. $2k wheelsets and electronic anything qualify as gucci.

 

[jonKranked]

Yeah. $2k wheelsets and electronic anything qualify as gucci.

 

[norbar]

You realize where you are posting this, right?

Yeah sorry. Didn't mean this to be so negative. What I meant is as we grow older all of our lifestyles changed a bit. I doubt any of us live the same way when we were 20 years old. No safety hazard cars and actual furniture in homes. Didn't mean it to sound like having bikes as your main thing is bad. More as to point I don't want to live a bike bum lifestyle 20 years into the sport only because of price inflation. I was kinda hoping earning more meant I could ride my bike a lot but also afford a full size fridge

 

[norbar]

Shifting priorities are shifting.

Sorry Ben. Didn't want to sound so negative. Bikes are still super high prority in my life.. It just feels weird to see an article about Shimano posting record profits when the costs go up and we have delivery issues. If the volume of sales is lower and the profit is higher the solution seems rather obvious - margins are up. It's just as I mentioned above. I just kinda expect I could afford the same quality bike easier when I make 2-3x what I did 10 years ago not that I will make 2-3x the money so I can afford the same bike and still not have a table at my flat (since those are the protities I'm talking about not having a zillion other hobbies). This is why I'm cranky. My priorities didn't shift that much.

And I know that it's also the container problem. The shipping costs etc so it's a complicated issue but I have a weird feeling once the costs for companies go down prices won't fall back.

Finally I have been selling some parts and riding local pumptracks and yeah. Kids can't afford shit now. I will be fine but I remember joining national races with 500 participants. Tons of them were kids. Kinda bad to see kids barely being able to afford the sport and literally riding the same bikes kids bought 10 years ago. I mean those Polish Evil Imperial knock offs are cool but it seems the industry is catering more and more to people that remember what a vhs is. Also frames from 2005 will not last for much longer.

I'd also it's not aimed at companies with traditional distribution model as much. The prices there outside of spec taking crazy pills have been rising predictably but the D2C market has become a bit of a joke. Initially they were supposed to be cheaper alternatives to traditional brands. Now the only reason to buy d2C is if you really really want bad customer service (ok supposedly propain is good but the rest are known for being bad)

@jonKranked sorry for the Grayson comment. I should not makes jokes at your expense only because you have your own tire insert concierge

 

[norbar]

Let me add a different view. Specifically, one from a third world country:

Economy has certainly degraded globally since the start of this century, and in part it has to do with having a currency devaluating against the dollar to maintain a healy cash flow for the wealthy class down here, when your country's pay balance depends on exporting commodities. This makes buying a bike more expensive in pesos year-on-year, since the dollar loses its buying power and the local Powers That Be™ devaluate our money in order to compensate for their losses.

So, maybe a 400 dollar price hike on a entry level dually doesn't really move the gauge for you boys, but it makes us thirdworldians in need to dispose of one more basic income in order to acquire such bike. I'm in the top 5% pay bracket for my country, and that still would allow me to buy just HALF a USD 3000 MTB with my net salary, if I didn't spend anything else on food/energy/taxes.

I would still swallow the pill, if it wasn't for the continuous bar lowering The Industry™ imposes, equipping all the models with stuff so amortized they should be already selling it with discount at the second or third year after it hit the market. But The Industry™ choses to change the color, a sticker, call it a new model, and then pass on us consumers the supposed newly generated development costs (of their graphical designers).

Fuck them. Especially Specialized.

Yeah this too. I think it's a bit easier here in Poland but I really feel you.

Also Re last paragraph - For some reason many entry level products are still trash (looking at you brakes) and yeah we are being pushed extra high prices for enduro and trail bikes just because some companies finally realized to transfer the ideas that worked from DH bikes to lower travel bikes (yay for no more penis shaped wheel curves and ^ shaped leverage curves because someone didn't pay attention in high school physics).

Also wtf is going on with D2C companies. They used to be cheaper alternatives to bikes you bought through local shops. Now I can get a better specced trek slash than commencal meta used here as an example of a cheap bike> I know I sound like a cranky old guy but when did Ibis become affordable

@iRider Canyon Neuron is essentially an XC bike. Spectral went up by 1.5x from 5 years ago and I don't think the recent price hikes at Canyon have hit its current price yet (i've literally seen some bikes go up 700E)

 

[sethimus]

several world cup teams
van der poel
getting bought by financial vultures

that happened

 

[norbar]

several world cup teams
van der poel
getting bought by financial vultures

that happened

Yeah but weirdly the prices went up on all of D2C companies not just Canyon. Not all of them have WC Teams.

I know my rant seems like it's about all companies but it's really not. Since essentially what happened is a lot of LBSs got killed by D2C companies which were promising to make access to the sport easier and now we hae fewer shops and the prices are just going up.

I know there are still some industry people here, including Ben so maybe there is some explanation here? Though I don't think Scott has changed as much. It just seems the more expensive brands from 5-10 years ago (which had a few entry level models) got overtaken in price by companies we used to call cheap. This is what confuses me. (and yeah Commencal is still cheapish but the part spec on it is a bit of a joke)

 

[canadmos]

Yeah but weirdly the prices went up on all of D2C companies not just Canyon. Not all of them have WC Teams.

I know my rant seems like it's about all companies but it's really not. Since essentially what happened is a lot of LBSs got killed by D2C companies which were promising to make access to the sport easier and now we hae fewer shops and the prices are just going up.

I know there are still some industry people here, including Ben so maybe there is some explanation here? Though I don't think Scott has changed as much. It just seems the more expensive brands from 5-10 years ago (which had a few entry level models) got overtaken in price by companies we used to call cheap. This is what confuses me. (and yeah Commencal is still cheapish but the part spec on it is a bit of a joke)

It's probably not something complicated.

Direct to consumer brands came with initially with lower prices and established themselves. Then probably realized, hey these people will still pay the LBS bike prices and we can take in all those profits.

After all they are businesses. They are not looking out for our best interests and well being.

 

[norbar]

It's probably not something complicated.

Direct to consumer brands came with initially with lower prices and established themselves. Then probably realized, hey these people will still pay the LBS bike prices and we can take in all those profits.

After all they are businesses. They are not looking out for our best interests and well being.

While this is true why then shop D2C? I have a few great distributors/shops here in Poland. I like the dudes and honestly if the prices are similar I'd rather deal with possible issues through someone I know is not a dick and will not tell me suspension play is a feature not a bug (cough cough Canyon)

 

[Jm_]

While this is true why then shop D2C? I have a few great distributors/shops here in Poland. I like the dudes and honestly if the prices are similar I'd rather deal with possible issues through someone I know is not a dick and will not tell me suspension play is a feature not a bug (cough cough Canyon)

The same reason people buy on Amazon or get groceries delivered.

 

[norbar]

The same reason people buy on Amazon or get groceries delivered.

Yeah I get its convinient but at least amazon is also cheap and fast in delivery so it offers other advantages of "i can get thing without moving from home". I know most people will chose d2c but it is annoying how d2c companies killed many shops and now they will get rewarded for it with higher margins vs traditional companies.

 

[iRider]

@iRider Canyon Neuron is essentially an XC bike. Spectral went up by 1.5x from 5 years ago and I don't think the recent price hikes at Canyon have hit its current price yet (i've literally seen some bikes go up 700E)

You said trail bike. Since when is a 140/130 mm bike XC?

 

[canadmos]

Yeah I get its convinient but at least amazon is also cheap and fast in delivery so it offers other advantages of "i can get thing without moving from home". I know most people will chose d2c but it is annoying how d2c companies killed many shops and now they will get rewarded for it with higher margins vs traditional companies.

Maybe its different over there but I don't think direct to consumer brands are responsible for the death of the bike shop. We can place more blame for that on all the online shops like Jenson, CRC etc etc.

Many bike shops here are doing well, yeah some have come and gone, but that's life. Most now have some sort of online presence.

But for some shops, they are killing themselves. Majority around here don't hold any inventory and some aren't even knowledgeable about the products they sell. What's the point of going into a bike shop to find an item, for a brand that they carry, only to be told "yeah we have that, but it'll have to be delivered from our distributor." Oh yeah when is that? "Well we submit our orders twice a week.....so in a week...maybe?"

The bike shops that do well and offer good service aren't going anywhere.

 

[Kanye West]

Maybe its different over there but I don't think direct to consumer brands are responsible for the death of the bike shop. We can place more blame for that on all the online shops like Jenson, CRC etc etc.

Many bike shops here are doing well, yeah some have come and gone, but that's life. Most now have some sort of online presence.

But for some shops, they are killing themselves. Majority around here don't hold any inventory and some aren't even knowledgeable about the products they sell. What's the point of going into a bike shop to find an item, for a brand that they carry, only to be told "yeah we have that, but it'll have to be delivered from our distributor." Oh yeah when is that? "Well we submit our orders twice a week.....so in a week...maybe?"

The bike shops that do well and offer good service aren't going anywhere.

Yup. Local shops have killed themselves. All it takes is a 10 second snapshot of what their customer experience is and it's a miracle they've lasted as long as they have.

Nevermimd the retail side, but the rising labor rates and labor shortages are going to he the nail in the coffin for the service sides now.

 

[toodles]

(and yeah Commencal is still cheapish but the part spec on it is a bit of a joke)

Commencal here went up a lot. Not sure about worldwide but the alloy framed Meta AM Signature here is $1000 more than the equivalent specced carbon framed NukeProof Mega Factory

 

[HAB]

Commencal here went up a lot. Not sure about worldwide but the alloy framed Meta AM Signature here is $1000 more than the equivalent specced carbon framed NukeProof Mega Factory

That's nuts. The Meta is $1500 cheaper in the US.

 

[toodles]

That's nuts. The Meta is $1500 cheaper in the US.

I just checked again and its basically $8500 AUD for the Commencal Meta Signature model and $7400 for the pretty much identical spec in the carbon Nukeproof Mega 290 Factory.

Although the 2022 carbon Nukeproof 297 with the same spec (not in stock yet) is $9200 and the 2022 Commencal with the same spec is $8700.

If you stick with alloy frame the 2022 Mega 297 Pro (RS Factory suspension, GX Eagle, DT wheels) is $6600, the 2022 Meta SX team (pretty much same spec) is $7600

 

[Bikael Molton]

I’m guessing CRC is doing their best to give Aussies a deal. They need to grow their customer base, and the English speaking country that Sam Hill is from is a natural fit.

The prices you guys have to pay are insane..

 

[HardtailHack]

Knolly, the masters of physics.

"The 157TRAIL spacing increases rear axle width by 15mm (7.5mm per side) and yet heel clearance has only moved outward by 1.5mm per side! Our 157TRAIL rear-end remains the same or in some cases narrower than existing Boost 148 bikes currently on the market."
"With 157Trail, heel clearance is exceptional and chainring clearance remains huge at 36T."

Why would you want a Superboost hardtail? The rims are usually dinged to shit before optimum triangulation even crosses my mind. The Tyaughton has a pretty short back end so the chainstays would have jut out pretty aggressively towards the axle to make these claims believable.

 

[slimshady]

Mumbo-jumbo gibberish lingo bingo much.

 

[Gary]

I’m guessing CRC is doing their best to give Aussies a deal. They need to grow their customer base, and the English speaking country that Sam Hill is from is a natural fit.

Despite the US not being an English speaking nation they're actually focusing their attention there right now.

but... Shhhhhh...

You aint seen me here. Right?

 

[Gary]

Why would you want a Superboost hardtail?

Because TWENTY FUCKING NINE?

 

[englertracing]

I just checked again and its basically $8500 AUD for the Commencal Meta Signature model and $7400 for the pretty much identical spec in the carbon Nukeproof Mega 290 Factory.

Although the 2022 carbon Nukeproof 297 with the same spec (not in stock yet) is $9200 and the 2022 Commencal with the same spec is $8700.

If you stick with alloy frame the 2022 Mega 297 Pro (RS Factory suspension, GX Eagle, DT wheels) is $6600, the 2022 Meta SX team (pretty much same spec) is $7600

Ofc with the aluminum bike they have to pay a skilled welder to tig weld the frame

With the carbon frame women and children can stuff the molds full of carbon....

 

[mykel]

Ofc with the aluminum bike they have to pay a skilled welder to tig weld the frame

With the carbon frame women and children can stuff the molds full of carbon....

Children, I agree should not be laying up carbon.
You gotta watch the context in which you use the phrase "women and children".
It gives the impression that you think Woman are incapable or not allowed to be skilled workers such as welders.

/pedant mode off.

I didn't catch it, but my wife busted you whilst looking over my shoulder.

 

[Leafy]

Yeah I get its convinient but at least amazon is also cheap and fast in delivery so it offers other advantages of "i can get thing without moving from home". I know most people will chose d2c but it is annoying how d2c companies killed many shops and now they will get rewarded for it with higher margins vs traditional companies.

And its the bikes themselves. Spec, Trek, and Giant all made boring ass shit while all the d2c brands and boutique brands that are hardly in any shops were really pushing new geometry and other cool shit that consumers wanted. The 3 shops closest to me, 1 seems pretty roadie focused but have a few mtb brands, 1 is a trek and trek only shop and its basically just run by 1 guy who shitposts memes on facebook all day and I dont think he cares if he pulls a profit, and the 3rd is the shop that carries santa cruz, rocky mountian, and GT.

 

[englertracing]

Children, I agree should not be laying up carbon.
You gotta watch the context in which you use the phrase "women and children".
It gives the impression that you think Woman are incapable or not allowed to be skilled workers such as welders.

/pedant mode off.

I didn't catch it, but my wife busted you whilst looking over my shoulder.

How many Woman have you seen weld?
How many percent of professional welders are woman?
How many percent of woman have welded?

To be fair I have a friend that worked at a Rockwell wind tunnel, the best tig welder there was a woman, she actually made everyone their desk name plates with their names in perfect welded text. Only woman I've even heard of tig welding... just saying there aren't many.


I could edit my post to say "unskilled starved workers in third world countries"

 

[iRider]

If I would tell you that Intense had a female welder on staff, you guys would just crack the "now we know why they were crooked" jokes.

These Women Are Changing Who Gets to Ride — One Custom Bike Frame at a Time

Meet 6 independent bicycle builders who are pushing the industry to reflect everyone who loves to ride

www.bicycling.com

In the PB video on making a frame in Taiwan, some of the welders seen at Genio were females.

So yeah, they are out there, but generally you are right, not that many female welders out there.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

If I would tell you that Intense had a female welder on staff, you guys would just crack the "now we know why they were crooked" jokes.

These Women Are Changing Who Gets to Ride — One Custom Bike Frame at a Time

Meet 6 independent bicycle builders who are pushing the industry to reflect everyone who loves to ride

www.bicycling.com

In the PB video on making a frame in Taiwan, some of the welders seen at Genio were females.

So yeah, they are out there, but generally you are right, not that many female welders out there.

Largely because they have historically been discouraged from entering the skilled trades except at times we have exported most of the adult males to get themselves shot at or blown up...

 

[gonefirefightin]

If I would tell you that Intense had a female welder on staff, you guys would just crack the "now we know why they were crooked" jokes.

These Women Are Changing Who Gets to Ride — One Custom Bike Frame at a Time

Meet 6 independent bicycle builders who are pushing the industry to reflect everyone who loves to ride

www.bicycling.com

In the PB video on making a frame in Taiwan, some of the welders seen at Genio were females.

So yeah, they are out there, but generally you are right, not that many female welders out there.

Interesting, never really thought about the small numbers of female welders

They wouldn't even allow females on the rigs or pipelines regardless of their welding certs because they were a legitimate distraction for the rest of the crews. There was one female that worked in the maintenance shop and was certified but I am pretty sure she was in it for the instagram.

I know of a handful of "artists" but they are all about plasma and mig and are literally just making sculptures, no fine fab work.

 

[ianjenn]

Children, I agree should not be laying up carbon.
You gotta watch the context in which you use the phrase "women and children".
It gives the impression that you think Woman are incapable or not allowed to be skilled workers such as welders.

/pedant mode off.

I didn't catch it, but my wife busted you whilst looking over my shoulder.

Well, ask the wife if she would be down to handle toxic chemicals with a whip at her back for $2 a day. That's a 12 hour day mind you.......

 

[Westy]

Want to talk about child labour? I bet these welders aren't even 5 years old.

 

[Jm_]

Interesting, never really thought about the small numbers of female welders

They wouldn't even allow females on the rigs or pipelines regardless of their welding certs because they were a legitimate distraction for the rest of the crews. There was one female that worked in the maintenance shop and was certified but I am pretty sure she was in it for the instagram.

I know of a handful of "artists" but they are all about plasma and mig and are literally just making sculptures, no fine fab work.

And by "legitimate distraction" they mean management promoted insubordination, toxic culture, sexist and most likely other similar attitudes and prejudices, without firing or punishing workers for such behavior. Men and women can get along working just fine, if they treat each as professionals from the beginning, which means ensuring the "other side" treats them as professionals and standards are upheld.

 

[FlipSide]

Knolly, the masters of physics.

"The 157TRAIL spacing increases rear axle width by 15mm (7.5mm per side) and yet heel clearance has only moved outward by 1.5mm per side! Our 157TRAIL rear-end remains the same or in some cases narrower than existing Boost 148 bikes currently on the market."
"With 157Trail, heel clearance is exceptional and chainring clearance remains huge at 36T."

Why would you want a Superboost hardtail? The rims are usually dinged to shit before optimum triangulation even crosses my mind. The Tyaughton has a pretty short back end so the chainstays would have jut out pretty aggressively towards the axle to make these claims believable.

The only reason I can think that make any sense for 157mm hardtails is to offer a hardtail option with compatible wheelsets for people already owning 157 full-susp frames. Knolly is already all-in in 157 spacing, so that makes sense for them to go that route.

 

[toodles]

And by "legitimate distraction" they mean management promoted insubordination, toxic culture, sexist and most likely other similar attitudes and prejudices, without firing or punishing workers for such behavior.

We had a young lady electrician on a project I was at. Three or four of the young guys on the job had decent head injuries walking into hanging steel in the undercroft area because they were too stupid to watch where they were going working around her.

I've known a few women welders\boilermakers as well. They're certainly out there making good coin.

 

[englertracing]

If I would tell you that Intense had a female welder on staff, you guys would just crack the "now we know why they were crooked" jokes.

These Women Are Changing Who Gets to Ride — One Custom Bike Frame at a Time

Meet 6 independent bicycle builders who are pushing the industry to reflect everyone who loves to ride

www.bicycling.com

In the PB video on making a frame in Taiwan, some of the welders seen at Genio were females.

So yeah, they are out there, but generally you are right, not that many female welders out there.

Or why they cracked

 

[englertracing]

Ok so now that we have established that there are some woman welders in 1st world countries

How many female welders are there in 3rd world countries?