Quantcast

Evil Undead

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by invol2ver, Feb 15, 2011.

  1. Juddos

    Juddos Chimp

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    40
    Yep.

    Its very easy.

    If you're going to do it without a press, just be gentle with a soft mallet and a piece of nylon or wooden rod.
     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  2. puppy

    puppy Chimp

    Rep/Likes:
    2 / 0
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2011
    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    Thailand
    My undead it amazing bike for me .:thumb:
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Thiessen

    Thiessen Chimp

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Van, BC
    Finally got my first ride in on the undead. Sram power link blew off first run:rant: but the bike carries speed well, I'll get another go tomorrow with a chain. Feels pretty good definitely feels more playful than my V10c.

     
  4. Huck Banzai

    Huck Banzai Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 21
    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Messages:
    2,531
    Location:
    Transitory
    Sick bike; my 2c on the powerlink - SRAM chains are good, but the PL's suck - use KMC links with any chain!

    I'd love access to an Undead XL to do a comparison - but V10c is pretty poppy in 8.5, but def not in 10


    nice rox!
     
  5. Thiessen

    Thiessen Chimp

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Van, BC
    Thanks! I'll look into KMC the next time the sram link goes again, not if but when.

    I've been riding my v10c in 8.5 and while it is quite "poppy" it still feels like it prefers to stay on the ground and just eat everything up. where as with the undead, it can plow but i've found myself jumping over must of the parts of the trail I normally plow with the v10c. In medium sizing they feel similar and very comfortable for my 6'2 frame.

    I've left the undead in the stock settings low/steep so maybe thats the difference i'm feeling. Im pretty happy with the vivid air as well i'm using full travel w/ no bottoming or harshness just smooth and progressive. Also being a single pivot i was expecting brake jack but only noticed mininal if any.

    Only thing i'm sort of disappointed with is the weight @ 39.0 lbs. I might go tubeless just to bring that number down a bit haha.

    Gotta love those west coast Rox ;).
     
  6. Raingauge

    Raingauge Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2008
    Messages:
    693
    Location:
    Canadia
    I'll just put this here in case anyone wants to have a little read.

    http://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Frames,7/Evil-Bikes/Undead,12135

    I agree with everything about the way it rides and the access to the rear shock bolt. Would be nice to remove it with out having to lift the rear swing arm. I can get my shock out without removing the spring, I just have to tilt the shock upwards so that the linkage can move.
     
  7. blindboxx2334

    blindboxx2334 Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    11 / 100
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    1,347
    Location:
    Wets Coast
    god everytime i look at these frames i want one to shred on, and another hang up on my wall.

    absolutely beautiful.
     
  8. canadmos

    canadmos Cake Tease

    Rep/Likes:
    246 / 4,727
    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    9,214
    Location:
    Canaderp
    That was a good read!

    I agree with the rear shock bolt. That was a tricky spot while helping my friend build his Undead. I let him take care of that bolt, there was no way I was going to risk fudging up the threads in the frame or the bolt itself.

    The minimum insert length of the seatpost is also questionable. Perhaps that is a nod back to when the first Revolt's cracked around the seat post.

    Either way, these are really nice frame and judging by the super indicative parking lot test, it will be a very nice bike on the trail.
     
  9. BrazilianMonkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2012
    Messages:
    50
    please anyone riding Vivid Coil shock? the best way to go is A tune? i ride manitou Revox now and like a lot, i have only 80lbs on air chamber and the delta link works so well, i ride 450 apring and im 180lbs geared rider, anyone ride Vivid Coil to tell us if its work well
     
  10. Raingauge

    Raingauge Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2008
    Messages:
    693
    Location:
    Canadia
    I run a Vivid. It was an A tune, but I had it re-valved by Vorsprung. The only reason I had it re-valved was because it was blown. It works great and I wouldn't hesitate to try a stock A tune.
     
  11. BrazilianMonkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2012
    Messages:
    50
    thanks for review, did you ride the frame with another shock to do a comparative
     
  12. Raingauge

    Raingauge Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2008
    Messages:
    693
    Location:
    Canadia
    I had an RC4 on it from July last year until this spring. The Vivid gives a better balance of plow and pop than the RC4 IMO.
     
  13. BrazilianMonkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2012
    Messages:
    50
    thanks again, like with SC v-10c rc4 gives more plow than pop, is it rigth? i will try vivid coil A tune
     
  14. Udi

    Udi RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”

    Rep/Likes:
    94 / 791
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    4,713
    I've ridden a V10C with Vorsprung-tuned RC4 and it felt very good, nice pop. But the RC4 is more lively in the V10 anyway because of the higher leverage ratio. For the Evil I think the RC4 needs to be custom tuned to work its best.
     
  15. BrazilianMonkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2012
    Messages:
    50

    If you try vivid coil high tune on your v-10c you will feel more pop and lively than rc4, i dont know if Vorsprung-tuned RC4 is better but i prefer vivid C tune than stock rc4 on V-10c
     
  16. Huck Banzai

    Huck Banzai Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 21
    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Messages:
    2,531
    Location:
    Transitory
    I have a PUSH'd Vivid on my V10c, but then I'm not a jumpy superfast guy; kinda decent trailrider on a DH bike.

    Poppy? That might cause me to leave the ground, and there could be stained pants as a result.
     
  17. DIRTWRKS

    DIRTWRKS Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Messages:
    616
    Location:
    Canada EH !
    Has anyone had an issue with removing the headset cups on their Undead I want to change mine for the Steep to Slack position and they are wedged in there pretty tight. I have tried using a Park tool headset removal tool for the upper cup and a wooden dowel with hammer for the lower but they are not moving. Maybe I just need to use more brute force ?? ,
     
  18. ThePriceSeliger

    ThePriceSeliger Mushhead

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 0
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Messages:
    4,861
    Location:
    Denver, Colorado
    MAOR HAMMMARRZZZZ!

    But really, over the past week I've ridden the steepest tracks I could fathom, and I'm in the stock Steep/Low setting, I couldn't imagine needing to change.
     
  19. Raingauge

    Raingauge Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2008
    Messages:
    693
    Location:
    Canadia
    I don't remember mine being hard to knock out. I switched mine to the Slack setting right away. I figured if i wanted steeper it would be easier to use the flip chips.
     
  20. heikkihall

    heikkihall Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 0
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2001
    Messages:
    885
    Location:
    Durango, CO
    I rode my frame in the stock Low/Steep setting since I got it about a year ago. This spring I felt like a change so I popped the cups out. They came out no problem. When putting them back in just make sure that you are very careful that you are lining up the keyed sections properly.
     
  21. fred.r

    fred.r Dwangus Bogans

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    845
    Mine came out fine with some carefully applied force. First time I used a dowel, second time I used the Park Tool, I'd recommend the dowel though.
     
  22. supercow

    supercow Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 125
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    974
    I went and pulled the trigger on one, yay!
    y fork is straight steerer, I'm assuming that the headset provided is a reducer headset?

    Also, for 30% sag and me being about 83 kilograms excluding gear... which spring should I go for?
     
    #1622 -   May 22, 2013
    Last edited: May 22, 2013
  23. Christiaan

    Christiaan Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 0
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    525
    Location:
    Weesp, The Netherlands
    What size you end up getting?
     
  24. Udi

    Udi RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”

    Rep/Likes:
    94 / 791
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    4,713
    400 would probably be a good starting point on the RC4 for 83kg.
    Headset is a reducer for a straight steerer.
     
  25. supercow

    supercow Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 125
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    974
    Cheers mate

    I went against Udi's recommendation and went for a large. I prefer my bikes on the bigger side, just like my women.

    I have a CCDB that can be used ... wondering to give that a go first, or just to use the RC4 - I've never ridden any Fox shocks before
     
    #1625 -   May 23, 2013
    Last edited: May 23, 2013
  26. Udi

    Udi RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”

    Rep/Likes:
    94 / 791
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    4,713
    Haha, how are you finding the large? As long as you're happy it's all good.
    The cockpit size probably fits you fine, it's just that the fork ends up further out due to the slack HA - but perhaps sometimes I forget that I run a 40 at a fairly tall height along with 800 bars, any other setup (including leaving the cups in their stock steep setting) would probably keep things more manageable.
     
  27. supercow

    supercow Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 125
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    974
    I used to run my Makulu on the 55mm stem setting and still felt a little cramped at times. For my 5.9 stature, I have really short legs, but with a disproportionately long torso - so I reckon now I'll just run my stem at 45mm.

    I'm waiting for it to be delivered still so can;t say.

    I must admit, I'm really nervous about it as:
    1: I've been on a Makulu every year since they came out, just got a new colour / shape every year (since 09).
    2: I've been on BOS since then
    3: My BOS void is running better than any other shock I've had and I'm begrudged to see it go.
     
  28. Udi

    Udi RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”

    Rep/Likes:
    94 / 791
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    4,713
    The frame will accept BOS should you feel the need. I've found their coil shocks noticeably more sensitive than the Fox items, but I've found the Fox damping profiles allow me to ride faster, so I usually end up back on them.

    I've just valved another Stoy to try in it at some point, and have plans to remove the BV from an RC4 and revalve to compensate, so will try those shocks back to back at some point soon.
     
  29. supercow

    supercow Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 125
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    974
    Try a VOID if you ever have the option, so so so good! It' so sensitive, but very linear like a coil shock, that I've found myself running a lot less sag with it, so it feel like the best of both worlds.

    What do you reckon to CCDB coil vs RC4 on the undead?
     
    #1629 -   May 23, 2013
    Last edited: May 23, 2013
  30. Err

    Err Chimp

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    27
    supercow - depending on your style, you might find a 450 spring on an RC4 to be the call. I'm around your stated weight ready to ride. I started with a 400 but bumped up to a 450. It's a bit unusual, a 450 is a heavy spring for an ~80kg rider on an 8" bike, but it works for me on the Undead. The 400 did lend to a plow feel and kind of gobbles things up, but felt a bit unbalanced towards the rear. I get full travel out of 450 with BO set to 0, 145 PSI in the boost, and a more centered/balanced feel. YMMV
     
  31. BrazilianMonkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2012
    Messages:
    50
    im using 450 spring on revox, and Im 81kg rider, do you know if vivid needs lighter spring like 400? im thinking about those 250lbs gas on main chamberm, thanks!
     
  32. BrazilianMonkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2012
    Messages:
    50
    im not the only one that feel lively feeling,,,hahahah

    Reviewed by Fred Robinson:

    "I'd read the Undead got its name from the shaky history Evil has had, their struggle to stay afloat, and their resurgence since. While that's a suiting story, the name also reflects the overall suspension characteristics of the bike. It has a very active feel and rides surprisingly lively. "

    http://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Frames,7/Evil-Bikes/Undead,12135
     
  33. supercow

    supercow Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 125
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    974
    Thanks bud - to what % sag does that equate to?
    I've changed up my sag an awful lot in the last couple years. From running 40%, I've gone all the way down to 30% on the same bike model (Makulu).

    Not knowing much about Fox, what does the boost valve do in laymen's terms?

    Edit: nevermind, I gaggled it and saw a Fox video of it.
     
    #1633 -   May 23, 2013
    Last edited: May 23, 2013
  34. Err

    Err Chimp

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    27
    Ah, yeah, I recall the 40% days all to well and happy to be back to firmer numbers.

    I'm running pretty much 0 preload, just barely snugging up the collar. That's resulting in about 21 to 22 mm of shock sag when measured from a standing position with hips just slightly behind the BB. Expressed as a percentage, that's around 28%. At 145 psi in the boost, there's wiggle room to drop it up to 20 psi which will soften it up a bit. I actually started at 150 and backed it down and like it better now for all-around riding.

    The cool thing about the RC4 is it's so tuneable; the frustrating thing about the RC4 is it's so tuneable :D
     
  35. supercow

    supercow Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 125
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    974
    Hmmm, that's the thing... not so keen about adjusting. I get all the compresison settings, but not too sure I dig the idea of boost valve... just sounds a faff.

    Just so I'm a bit clearer, the BV pressure makes up for more LSC adjustability?
     
    #1635 -   May 23, 2013
    Last edited: May 23, 2013
  36. Udi

    Udi RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”

    Rep/Likes:
    94 / 791
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    4,713
    If you have access to steel springs to try, just try a 400 and 450 and see which you prefer. I too am running far less sag on this bike than I usually would, and have found it works well. I'm actually at ~26%, and suggested the same to Fred R who seems happy with the setup.

    But if you're coming from a 40% to 30% background then maybe it's best to try the 400 as well as the 450 if possible.

    The BV adds a third dimension of compression damping that is both position and speed sensitive - so as the shock gets deeper into the travel, compression damping increases (this is not the case on a normal shock). This was great on bikes that were more linear / slightly regressive but not really beneficial on bikes like the Undead. It still works fine.

    Turning the bottom out adjuster all the way out, and then putting 145psi in the chamber is a pretty good starting point. There will be no need to turn the BO adjuster in on this frame. It's easiest to turn the BO adjuster with the pressure deflated, but don't compress the shock until pumped up again.
     
  37. Err

    Err Chimp

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    27
    As usual, Udi is bang on. The Boost Valve is all about adding that position sensitive damping. I'

    On the spring weight and sag topic, I see real potential for a 425# spring but they're not easy to come by and I've only seen them in Ti.
     
  38. supercow

    supercow Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 125
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    974
    So glad I went for the Large, the Medium would have felt much too small for me.
    Not ridden yet, but car park bouncing certainly has me glad of my choice :)

    http://www.ti-springs.com/ does the 425 so might try it once I've had a play about. Kev W said he prefers the RC4 to thew CCDBc, as its more lively - so I'll stick that for now.

    The geo charts seem to recommend 30% sag - that's 25mm off the eye to eye length of the shock right?

    Thanks for then info about the BV - though I'm still somewhat not getting it. Does it have anhy correlation with the bottom out / progressiveness of the shock?

    Crappy night time phone pic for now:



    36.5 exactly.

    Yes, the chainguide will be changed.
     
    #1638 -   May 24, 2013
    Last edited: May 24, 2013
  39. Udi

    Udi RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”

    Rep/Likes:
    94 / 791
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    4,713
    Yeah the medium isn't the biggest bike which is why I wasn't sure you'd be happy with either, but in the steep setting with that fork, your bike doesn't look particularly big. As long as you're happy.

    Yes the BV has every correlation with progression / bottom out. That is the 'position sensitive' component. The way it works (briefly) is that as chamber pressure increases (which happens as you move deeper into the stroke on any shock), a valve closes more, thus increasing damping as you get deeper in the travel. It's not like a bottom out cone which engages abruptly, as the valve is always operating, but obviously doing more as you get closer to end of stroke. However the Undead has strong EOS leverage progression in stock guise so I feel the BV component is not ideal or neccessary - however everything else about the shock works very well in the frame.

    Edited out the bit about the 425 spring - that place might be fine, turns out my friend got his from a different place.
     
    #1639 -   May 24, 2013
    Last edited: May 25, 2013
  40. supercow

    supercow Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 125
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    974
    Running 140 of BV pressure then means that you've made it more progressive than the stock recommended 130 - is that correct, or does it not get "used" because you've not engaged the btm out knob at all?

    ps: Thanks for all your help, much appreciated.
     
    #1640 -   May 25, 2013
    Last edited: May 25, 2013