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The Official Iron Horse Sunday / DW-Link Tech. & Tuning Section

MrBaker87

MrBaker87

Monkey
Mar 30, 2014
160
113
neverlandranch
What's the best/cheapest place to get a Sunday derailleur hanger? The hanger on the Sunday I just got is bent. Looked at eBay. Found a few cheapish ($22), but they say for 07 Sundays only? Are all derailleur hangers for the Sunday the same? Or different models used different hangers?
 
AllStarProject

AllStarProject

Chimp
Apr 17, 2014
21
6
I finally ended up keeping the Fox Dhx Air, I removed the propedal dial and am issues free regarding it hiting the link.
Here's a pic of the final build at 15.97kg (35.2 lbs):



Bikecheck here!
 
M

msaman

Chimp
Dec 6, 2012
64
1
AllStarProject said:
I finally ended up keeping the Fox Dhx Air, I removed the propedal dial and am issues free regarding it hiting the link.
Here's a pic of the final build at 15.97kg (35.2 lbs):



Bikecheck here!
Click to expand...
That's one sweet bike mate : )
When u go under 17 kg on a DH bike it start feeling like AM bike and u even can pedal up the hill :D
Have you tried it with these tyres on trial or they are just for the scale :P
Enjoy it's an awesome build ,just didn't see have you got any angle set on it ?
 
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AllStarProject

AllStarProject

Chimp
Apr 17, 2014
21
6
Thanks mate, yeah, I use single ply tires but run Dr. Sludge self sealing inner tubes so I rarely get a flat so it's an awesome combo and pretty lighweight too.
Don't have an angle set as of right now but it's probably the next upgrade, I'm thinking of going with -1 or -1.5, not sure yet.
 
F

frgeoff

Chimp
Feb 3, 2009
60
6
msaman said:
When u go under 17 kg on a DH bike it start feeling like AM bike and u even can pedal up the hill :D
Click to expand...
i dunno about that.. I tried using a Sunday for aggressive AM use and its just too much bike. its great on a chairlft tho!

edit: went back to the '08 6/7point for pedally days
 
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H

hitar_potar

Monkey
Sep 23, 2011
173
6
Ruse, Bulgaria
frgeoff said:
nice sunday! never seen a dorado on a sunday before.

edit: BTW where did you get a -3 angleset from, workscomponents?
Click to expand...
A machine shop did them, didn't order them from Works. They would charge me a fair bit of money, i'm yet to hear from the machine shop regarding price (cause they need to finish another 4 or 5 sets of anglesets), but expectations are for 2 times cheaper than Works. :)
 
J

juanpkumicho

Chimp
Oct 13, 2011
14
1
Hi to all my fellow Sunday riders!
I am about to get myself some Sworkscomponents cups (yes, I still ride the sunday OEM geometry, sorry!) and haven't had much time to research what option would be best. I know the topic has been talked about here many times, and I did a bit of fast reading and found all kinds of stuff (some guys running -3?).
I really like all the slack bikes that I have tested (Turner DHR, Mondraker Summon, Lapierre, Scott Gambler, etc), I like the secure feeling they give when things get steep, and I don't feel them understeering or anything.

Near home I ride steep, rocky, technical stuff, where I think a very slack bike would help, the typical Spaniard loose, steep rocky stairs. There are few, hand counted, tight turns, which I don't really like anyway so...
Also, in summer, I ride at Andorra at La Pinilla, a bike park to the north of Madrid. Both in Andorra and the other bike park there are very steep trails, but also there are easy, non steep trails. However, there is nothing really tight, and I don't really like tight anyway. As in all bike parks there are countless berms, jumps, bla bla.

Measured with my cellphone, my Sunday currently is at 64 deg HA (I have a 35 mm Boxxer WC at the maximum height it allows), however, I don't really care about the number (because the actual angle you run will depend on sag and your position on the bike) but about the delta change from the stock Sunday which everybody knows. So, should I go for -2 deg cups? Or should I be a pussy and go for -1.5?

Let me know your opinions and thanks again as always!! Happy berm-destroying!

JP
 
Gary

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,668
5,586
UK
Go custom 1.75deg just to be safe..

Seriously? You're massively over thinking it.. The half deg you're worrying about can be adjusted/finetuned via the crown/stanchion height and sag point
 
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J

juanpkumicho

Chimp
Oct 13, 2011
14
1
Hi Gary, thank you for your input. You may be right I have been over thinking this (it is cooler than thinking about work related stuff :D).

At least in my case, the Boxxer does not let me adjust too much. Crown positions, headtube length, or whatever reason don't leave too much room for adjustment in my bike. But I haven't really checked how much.

JP
 
H

hitar_potar

Monkey
Sep 23, 2011
173
6
Ruse, Bulgaria
juanpkumicho said:
At least in my case, the Boxxer does not let me adjust too much. Crown positions, headtube length, or whatever reason don't leave too much room for adjustment in my bike. But I haven't really checked how much.

JP
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Hi, adjusting the head-angle by lowering or upping the fork is quite limited, the change is too small.
My bike is posted on the previous page of the thread, the -3 degrees' angleset-eqquiped black Sunday. I've tried it with regular headset, then a -2 degrees one, now it's with -3. The Dorado's upped at max, BB height is 330mm, wheelbase is 1180mm for size M frame, headangle measures around 62.3 - 62.5. The bike is extremely stable at high speeds, especially on steep terrain, corners like a dream on speedy turns. There is a signifficant difference between -2 and -3 angleset, for me the better one is -3. In my opinion, this is what the Sunday has needed from day 1. there are people with -4 or -4.5 anglesets on Sundays here in Bulgaria, that's already waaaaay too much and ruins the bike. But a -3 is nuts perfect!
 
Udi

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
juanpkumicho said:
Hi Gary, thank you for your input. You may be right I have been over thinking this (it is cooler than thinking about work related stuff :D).
Click to expand...
Gary is a strange old man stuck in the mid 1900s. Thinking drives us forward, don't stop!

If your riding is quite steep then go with the -2* at least. Keep in mind that if you have a target head angle in mind, you can achieve it in different ways (eg. fork height, headset cups, and shock length / hardware - which is less of an option in the Sunday). These different methods will net different results in terms of how much they affect other geometrical values.

So for example if you felt the stock BB was too low, you could slacken less with headset cups, and more by increasing fork height. Similarly if you like the current BB height or want it lower, you could perform all slackening with headset cups. Changes in bar height can be compensated with bar and stem rise. Keep in mind any slackening will also extend the WB - which I found is generally a good thing on the Sunday anyway - but it's good to be aware of.

The last thing worth considering is that different forks offer different tuning ranges. The 40 is by far the best in my experience, with well over an inch in adjustment on the Sunday. The Boxxer is very limited unless you purchase the drop crown, and the 888 is limited by its externally tapered stanchions. You may want to be more careful of the choice you make if your fork doesn't offer much adjustment.

There are so many options these days, and you can usually achieve the exact result you want with some thought. However from your description of enjoying steep tracks and avoiding tight corners, for a simple answer, go with the -2* cups. If you like the new Gambler (with 0* cups) you may want to consider something slightly slacker as hitar_potar suggested, but I don't think it's hugely necessary.
 
C

csermonet

Monkey
Mar 5, 2010
942
127
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Udi

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
I was actually implying that it wasn't really an option on these IH bikes with F7/10mm shock hardware, but since you ask, there is actually a way to convert to 8mm and run offset hardware.

You can simply make up some top-hat style reducers that press in from the outside of the frame/link and reduce the ID of the bore from 10mm to 8mm. Enduro make the parts to fit the Sunday as part of their needle bearing kit, but I made my own a few years prior to this by simply drilling out some female chainring bolts to 8mm (OD is 10mm already). The head of the bolt acts as the tophat (even though it's not chamfered, it works fine). After that you just need an appropriate length M8 (high tensile) bolt to go through the lot and an M8 nyloc nut to match.

On the Sunday this is only possible on the upper link end of the shock, however on other frames (without the link-concentric lower shock mount) something similar may be possible on the bottom end as well.



In case it wasn't obvious, after you've made it possible to use 8mm (vs. 10mm) hardware, you can just buy normal offset reducers in the correct width and install them - proshox on ebay is usually the cheapest. If you're adventurous you can try making your stepdown reducers from 10mm>6mm instead of 8mm, which will let you run greater offset. You'd need very high grade bolts, and they may bend, but if you're the gambling type it's an option.

I didn't say this explicitly earlier since you probably know, but you can't get any significant offset from the stock 10mm hardware - the reducer wall thickness is already minimal at ~1.3mm, so the offset delta would be between zero and insignificant.
 
C

csermonet

Monkey
Mar 5, 2010
942
127
udi - this all makes sense, thank you so much! I figured it was possible to somehow convert to the 8mm hardware. I assume on the 6 Point its possible to use them on the lower shock mount? I believe it will be okay, the only thing I see being an issue is clearance for my Vivid Air's air can. Thanks again. Do you by chance have any pictures of the stuff you made?
 
J

juanpkumicho

Chimp
Oct 13, 2011
14
1
Well I went for the -2 deg cups. Let's hope I put them to use this summer!

I owed you guys photos of my ride since last time that I got that play in the lower link. Here are some of the last photos of the bike, hope you like them (sorry about the ugly saddle, its a downhill bike!)!

These three photos are from Vallnord (Andorra) in 2013






And this last one after I got my new wheelset: (sorry that the photo is from a mobile phone)



The build is basically:
- 2010 Boxxer WC with updated 2012 damping cartridges.
- Pushed DHX 5.0 with 350 steel spring.
- Code R brakes with HS1 rotors.
- FSA GAP crankset.
- Shimano Zee shifter with a 11-25 ultegra cassette.
- E13 LG1 chainguide.
- Onoff/Nukeproof (and many other brands that sell this model) plastic pedals (highly recommend these, weight nothing and grip great).
- Nukeproof DH wheelset.
- Minion DHF 2.5 front and rear (42aF and 60aR).
- RaceFace 780mm 20mm rise bar.

It weights about 18.3 kg with the 2.5 dual ply tires and 1.5mm Maxxis downhill tubes (I really don't like flats). I think this is a bit on the heavy side compared to some weights I have seen here, and I don't really know where else to lose some pounds in a cheap, normal way, but anyway.

I hope I did not miss anything big. I must say that one of the best things I have spent money on is the Zee derailleur, the bike feels like new when it is 6 years old and counting.

Next thing I am putting there are the -2deg headset cups, and I hope from there it will just be riding and servicing because the bike is fullon.

Cheers to all fellow Sunday riders!

JP
 
H

hitar_potar

Monkey
Sep 23, 2011
173
6
Ruse, Bulgaria
Mine is 17,77kg with old 2-ply Maxxis tyres in 2.5 width. However, i use those tyres only for commuting. For Dh i use EXO Maxxis tyres (basically single-ply with a stronger side casing to copy 2-ply's advantages while single-ply heavy - in my case it does really work), so the weight drops to 17 - 17,10kg. And no flats at all. :)
 
J

juanpkumicho

Chimp
Oct 13, 2011
14
1
Wow I find that impressive. Could you post your basic build? I have no idea how to go below 18.25 without going for thinner tires and tubes, or not spending life earnings! I run the EXO on my enduro bike and has gone good, maybe one day I will try it on the Sunday, but I have to wear my current set and the spare I have first! I weight around 95kg also so I am quite hard on tires.

JP
 
F

frgeoff

Chimp
Feb 3, 2009
60
6
the exo is a great all-mountain/enduro tire... not a DH tire. instead of 1.5mm tubes, gorilla tape + stans works really, really well and does not flat when setup properly
 
H

hitar_potar

Monkey
Sep 23, 2011
173
6
Ruse, Bulgaria
Agreed, EXO tyres are enduro/AM tyres, and yet i am able to do good on them. I am 90-93kg so hard on tyres as well. I tend to put more air inside the tubes (CST DH tubes, lighter than Maxxis DH), something like 30-35psi and have no problems even on extremely rocky terrain. I find more than enough traction even with this air pressure, i have friends riding with less than half than me in their tubes and i don't like the feel of it, feels too.... errmmm, flexy!
As for the build, it's basically this:
-IH Sunday M size with drilled central section, Manitou Evolver ISX-6 air shock (4.75kg with Thomson seatpost, SLR saddle and headset, before the drilling), custom -3 degrees headset
- 2009 Manitou Dorado MRD, coil-converted - 3.22kg
- Easton Havoc 2012 wheelset (less than 5kg with the EXO tyres, inner tubes and XT 203mm rotors)
- Shimano Saint 10-speed drivetrain
- Hayes Stroker Ace 4-pot brakes with the aforementioned 203mm rotors from Shimano (wicked combination)
- SLR saddle, Thomson seatpost, Easton Havoc 35 stem and 800 mm handlebar, Lizard Skin grips, Tioga MX-1 flat pedals.
Extremely capable, very stable, needs a lot of speed to keep happy mood. :)
 
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A

AndySTi

Chimp
Apr 3, 2010
21
3
Siberia
Thought I'd share my settings:

Shock: 2012 RC4
Spring: 300lbs
PSI: 158
HSC: 6 clicks in from full open
LSC: 0 clicks in from full open
Rebound: 6 clicks in from full open
Bottom Out: Fully closed

I am 150lbs with gear on. Setup is on the firm side, with adequate support for the stuff I ride. However, I'd probably drop the boost pressure down to 155psi for rougher tracks. Searching for more pop, but I think this is as good as it's going to get (without sacrificing any further support). Also I am currently on the stock headset and will probably look to get -1* cups at the end of the year - primarily looking to lengthen the WB without sacrificing too much BB height.

Initially I was on a CCDB, and I must say the RC4 complements this frame much better than the aforementioned.
 
H

hickeyDH

Chimp
Jul 2, 2014
1
0
Please Help.

i own a ironhorse sunday world cup 2009, my bike mechanic sent away my vivid 5.1 to get serviced and they gave me a new 2014 r2c due to waiting 2 months for it. i got it back installed, i went out riding and when i came back i notice there was damage done to the adjusters and that the reservoir tank was bent back. The adjusters where hitting off the side of the dw link. so now im getting the 2012 vivid r2c which is similar to the vivid 5.1.
Q1. will the 2012 vivid r2c fit without hitting? (this the current dw link: http://images.ridemonkey.com/index.php?size=full&src=http://pom.dh-positive.sk/dw3.jpg )
and Q2. what dw link i should of had for the 2014 vivid r2c?
 
B

bengxe

Monkey
Dec 19, 2011
211
30
upstate NY
hickeyDH said:
Please Help.

i own a ironhorse sunday world cup 2009, my bike mechanic sent away my vivid 5.1 to get serviced and they gave me a new 2014 r2c due to waiting 2 months for it. i got it back installed, i went out riding and when i came back i notice there was damage done to the adjusters and that the reservoir tank was bent back. The adjusters where hitting off the side of the dw link. so now im getting the 2012 vivid r2c which is similar to the vivid 5.1.
Q1. will the 2012 vivid r2c fit without hitting? (this the current dw link: http://images.ridemonkey.com/index.php?size=full&src=http://pom.dh-positive.sk/dw3.jpg )
and Q2. what dw link i should of had for the 2014 vivid r2c?
Click to expand...
The 2012 vivid will fit fine. The 2014 wont fit without removing a lot of material from the lower link, so much so that you probably shouldn't.
 
J

juanpkumicho

Chimp
Oct 13, 2011
14
1
Well I was in Andorra two weeks back with the new -2 setup and I loved it. However, I found the differences to be more subtle than what I expected. They are there and I could feel them, specially in steep terrain or fast open turns, but the thought of "damn, maybe I would like -3 even more" did cross my mind a few times.

Well, thank you guys for the inputs, the bike is great and after oil changes for the fork and brake lever service for my rear Code R, it will be ready for the Alps next week!!!

JP
 
GekoES

GekoES

Chimp
Oct 16, 2012
83
0
Spain
My chainstay protector just falled, what kind of glue can I use to stick it again to the frame? I don't like zipties to this kind of job.
 
sundaydoug

sundaydoug

Monkey
Jun 8, 2009
611
275
GekoES said:
My chainstay protector just falled, what kind of glue can I use to stick it again to the frame? I don't like zipties to this kind of job.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't glue anything to the frame. Just cut up an old innertube and wrap it around the chainstay.
 
GekoES

GekoES

Chimp
Oct 16, 2012
83
0
Spain
sundaydoug said:
I wouldn't glue anything to the frame. Just cut up an old innertube and wrap it around the chainstay.
Click to expand...
I'm talking about the specific Sunday protector, that with "The", the horse and "DW-Link" printed in it.

It came glued on my bike, but after a year of use it just falled, so I want to reglued again.
 
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