[Tomasis]

giving us the craptacular 08-09 888's. So it was 1 step forward and 2 steps back for Marz.

Today, NOK seals are back in the 888's AND for the first time ever you can actually tune the damn shim stacks. Give em' some time and good things will happen once they get more product out there.

im curious what parts make 888 08-09 bad? seals? bushings?

I have an used RCV 08 on way and I have Ava kit home (will order midvalve kit) So I want to check what I need to eliminate weakspots. Protone air kit will be tested in middle of season

/avid zocchi user.. and they look most pretty of all!! for all years models

 

[IH8Rice]

im curious what parts make 888 08-09 bad? seals? bushings?

bushings, o-rings and the whole ATA cartridge in general.

They look like ****?

I'm not a complete whore but if I'm paying $1k+ for a fork, it better at least look good.

to each his own.
i like the way they look. new Boxxers look absolutely stupid with the "BoX" written on the stanchion and "XER" on the leg

 

[demo 9]

Maybe just preference, IMO (thats my opinion, not yours) They had a **** streak, and were always "heavy" I got a fox, i liked it, i havent switched yet. I am sure the same can be said for boxxers, there was a time when these were the only real choices, not that i think they are crap right now, but why should i sell my 40 (which im perfectly happy with) and get a 888, even if i was building a new bike and had to buy a new fork, i can get a 40 (with some minor change) from the year before, or take a "risk" on an 888.

 

[IH8Rice]

or take a "risk" on an 888.

i havent heard of any issues with the fork besides for some hucker who destroyed a 40 and 888 at Rampage. ive heard of more issues with 40's than current 888's

 

[Jeremy R]

I think the real question here is why do people get radically butthurt if other people do not like the same fork that you do.

 

[tuumbaq]

i havent heard of any issues with the fork besides for some hucker who destroyed a 40 and 888 at Rampage. ive heard of more issues with 40's than current 888's

really, like what ?

My 2011 40 is DIALED and now with the new inverted cartridge I cant think of a single thing that could go wrong with it...

 

[IH8Rice]

really, like what ?

My 2011 40 is DIALED and now with the new inverted cartridge I cant think of a single thing that could go wrong with it...

before they smartly inverted the cartridge, blown bladders were extremely common. it only took them 5 years to figure that out

 

[demo 9]

-Rice, by risk i meant buying a fork they may not like (forgetting about the mechanic problems they had a few years back-which i blame on the italy-tiwan move)
i dont really have a problem with the 888s, i like my 40, so i wont change, if i feel at some point its not up to par, ill look at my options. I think we are missing the guinea pigs for the 888s, so we can read on the internet forums, that they are good again.

 

[tuumbaq]

before they smartly inverted the cartridge, blown bladders were extremely common. it only took them 5 years to figure that out

I thought the OP made it pretty clear we were talking about CURRENT stuff...Wanna talk about 08-09 888 see which of the 3 forks had the most issues? Or even the crap Marzo made prior to that ?

Ever thought of applying for a job @ Fox and show those engineers how to get things done in less than 5 years? I think you should... seriously man..

Last 888 I tried was junk compare to other forks but I would to have a go @ the new stuff and see if its better.The fork does look likes **** though and Im suspicious how they actually do their testing since we NEVER, EVER hear of Marzo doing some proper testing/product development in the field ...Perhaps they keep things on the low down, I dont know but if they do, they sure are missing a great opportunity to do some real marketing and show the world what they are capable of and how serious they are about doing things right ...

 

[IH8Rice]

I thought the OP made it pretty clear we were talking about CURRENT stuff...Wanna talk about 08-09 888 see which of the 3 forks had the most issues? Or even the crap Marzo made prior to that ?
Ever thought of applying for a job @ Fox and show those engineers how to get things done in less than 5 years? I think you should... seriously man..

even with the problems of the 08/09 forks, they still worked. if the 40's bladder broke, it couldnt.
i dont recall any product before those years being "crap." heavy, yes. but they still performed great.

it seems that position has already been filled by someone who knows what they are doing....like i said, it took them 5 years to figure it out after non-stop issues. it didnt take Marz 5 years to figure out their 888 line sucked

and because they dont advertise the testing they do, that makes it less marketable?


and as always, haters gonna hate

edit: i could give two sh!ts what you ride and or think. i HATED my 40. my 888 performed much better IMO even with the issues i had with the ATA. those 4" of travel i got when it broke, felt better then the 8" i had with my 40

 

[jonKranked]

edit: i could give two sh!ts what you ride and or think. i HATED my 40. my 888 performed much better IMO even with the issues i had with the ATA. those 4" of travel i got when it broke, felt better then the 8" i had with my 40

let the record show that angry steve here had a first gen 40. very first gen.

 

[IH8Rice]

let the record show that angry steve here had a first gen 40. very first gen.

2006 and 2008. both poop.
miller's '10 feels worse then poop too

 

[no skid marks]

So in summary, what have we come up with?
Not much it seems, but banging on about the past when 2010-11 is what I wish to discuss, as everyone's aware now of the earlier 888s.
New 888s don't look good? To me they look way more quality then the super market looking boxxers. 40s look allright. But 40mm stanchions? even 38s over kill, but at least they're lubed.
Performance wise, is no body brave enough apart from IHRice to mention they like their 888s? Or is there just nobody on them?
Mentioning podiums is ignorant IMO, obviously the Boxxers and 40s are freshly rebuilt. Perhaps look at the rental bike servicing and performance.
I work on DH rental bikes, and I've not touched the 09 888s this year(will try the 2010-11 bushes in them when I figure out how), but the Boxxers we have go out only a handful of times before they're so packed up with stiction from dust that they have to be pulled apart and regreased, ha ha, GREASED FFS! Isn't that why everyone hated Manitou back in the day, and they had grease ports(don't think anyone had the micro guns but). and 40s are much same accept they're lack of seals, but I don't have them on any rental bikes, just know from experience.
So the 888s are 1cm taller than Boxxers, why is this an issue accept for with maybe some long headtube frames? I thought slack was the new black. I thought the 888 lowers were the same height as the Boxxers, is the 1cm in the lower crown? Or just a bigger safety margin or more travel from the 888?
Is there any damping flaws, with the new 888s?
Is the rebound good, and controlabale in both high and low speed?
Any spiking at all with stock shimz?
CAN I SELL MY AVY CART WITH MY BOXXERS, OR SHOULD I KEEP IT FOR THE 888s I have coming? Performance wise, my Avy Boxxers are fine(when greased), I'm just over servicing Boxxers, and not having a bike that's allways good to go like a trusty old kids BMX.

 

[tuumbaq]

even with the problems of the 08/09 forks, they still worked. if the 40's bladder broke, it couldnt.
i dont recall any product before those years being "crap." heavy, yes. but they still performed great.


two words for you : BRAKE DIVE those things had what resemble of a damper for rebound but for compression dampening...not so much

it seems that position has already been filled by someone who knows what they are doing....like i said, it took them 5 years to figure it out after non-stop issues. it didnt take Marz 5 years to figure out their 888 line sucked

True, as of today (let aside the 2011 since it seems that we are talking about the past )Marzo actually never managed to make both a great damper and/or reliable fork all together

and because they dont advertise the testing they do, that makes it less marketable? /QUOTE]

You think ? I dont know man, but personally I would take them more seriously if they did advertise the testing they do instead of those stupid 1996 half naked chicks with dragons...


I dot hate them, like I said and I would be curious to try the new stuff

 

[Deano]

after being a bum lurker for a year or two.

after reading all this, i decided to sign up nothing like a heated debate to get a boring monday fired up.

Anyways...

In regards to this, i will try to convey what my current opinion is on the new 888s, since i own and ride one

its been solid, rides super smooth, i ride with fast rebound, hard compression settings. it does what i want, hold a line when i point and plow.

i tried a friends new Boxxer R2C2 and in comparison, i much prefer the 888 evo ti, oddly, he preffered his boxxer over my evo Ti- go figure.

what im gonna do next is try and get the little thing to stick on the end of one leg to stop the brakedive - not that i feel there is a lot, but in this regard, im willing to drop the few bucks extra for the new shiny part from avalanche that supposedly stop this little bit of dive.

Last, after a full season of racing the fork is still buttery smooth, amazingly smooth still, and the only fork i would replace it with would prolly be a Bos Idylle RaRe. if only for it being a rarely seen fork that has the bling factor

my main point of grief with the Evo Ti, is actually the butted stanchions, they really do limit the points of adjustment of the fork - i heard Marz have already changed that on th 11's tho to straight tubes and internal butting now. And the friggin axle and removal of this, seriously i need to use 2 diff keys to get the front wheel loose each time ?? annoying as hell - Dear marz, pay to use the maxle system.. please!!

 

[ucsbMTBmember]

Im on a first gen evo ti. wouldnt trade it for any other fork atm. Had a boxxer before it and hated it. My roommate has a new boxxer currently and he has to pull it apart every other week to keep it smooth. The service intervals on it are rediculous. Marz is supporting their new products 100%. if you have any problems just give them a call and they will sort you out. I couldnt be happier with the way the fork performs. it has a little more brake dive than most forks but on the steeps it stays up in its travel.

 

[jonKranked]

2006 and 2008. both poop.
miller's '10 feels worse then poop too

you had an '08 too? don't remember that.

i thought miller sold his fork.

 

[IH8Rice]

you had an '08 too? don't remember that.

i thought miller sold his fork.

they were 08 internals in the fork after i got it rebuilt
he still has his, its just sitting in a box, basically brand new

And the friggin axle and removal of this, seriously i need to use 2 diff keys to get the front wheel loose each time ?? annoying as hell - Dear marz, pay to use the maxle system.. please!!

while the axle system does kinda stink, id rather have it then a Maxle. Fox's design is better

 

[Kanye West]

Marzocchi is testing their forks quite rigorously with this latest generation.

All forks these days are flawed somehow - they are all far from perfect. Some have benefits over others, depending on what your priorities are with it (performance, reliability, cost, etc etc).

As for the brake dive with the 888's or any other fork for that matter, people should get the correct springrate before they start commenting on the performance at all. Comparing the springrates across the big 3 manufacturers (Fox/RS/Marz - Manitou uses air only for the DH fork), there is actually quite a big spread in the rates. No point in comparing the damping on two forks that ride in the bottom half of the travel the whole time.

 

[HAB]

people seemed to think that was okay since it was a "race" fork

No, I wouldn't say I thought it was OK, but it wasn't a huge deal because it took me a solid half hour to open it up and check. Turns out mine was fine. It's just that I'm not going to stress too much about something I can fix that easily by myself.

 

[IH8Rice]

No, I wouldn't say I thought it was OK, but it wasn't a huge deal because it took me a solid half hour to open it up and check. Turns out mine was fine. It's just that I'm not going to stress too much about something I can fix that easily by myself.

i understand its a fast "fix" if it comes low on oil, but why did some even ship without the proper amount of oil in it??
and how often do you have to "re-lube" the fork? the amount of maintenance ive seen people do on their forks is ridiculous IMO

 

[jonKranked]

i understand its a fast "fix" if it comes low on oil, but why did some even ship without the proper amount of oil in it??
and how often do you have to "re-lube" the fork? the amount of maintenance ive seen people do on their forks is ridiculous IMO

any maintenance is more than what you do

 

[HAB]

i understand its a fast "fix" if it comes low on oil, but why did some even ship without the proper amount of oil in it??
and how often do you have to "re-lube" the fork? the amount of maintenance ive seen people do on their forks is ridiculous IMO

I agree that it's not good that it ever happened. But I've seen that problem from every single major manufacturer at some point. **** happens.



The service interval is honestly my only serious complaint with it at this point. Out of the box it felt iffy but I've tuned it to my liking quite successfully. I've been doing oil changes every 2-3 months. And this is with me riding DH pretty nearly every weekend, except for the 7 weeks I was out with a broken collarbone.

 

[sethimus]

So in summary, what have we come up with?
Not much it seems, but banging on about the past when 2010-11 is what I wish to discuss, as everyone's aware now of the earlier 888s.
New 888s don't look good? To me they look way more quality then the super market looking boxxers. 40s look allright. But 40mm stanchions? even 38s over kill, but at least they're lubed.
Performance wise, is no body brave enough apart from IHRice to mention they like their 888s? Or is there just nobody on them?
Mentioning podiums is ignorant IMO, obviously the Boxxers and 40s are freshly rebuilt. Perhaps look at the rental bike servicing and performance.
I work on DH rental bikes, and I've not touched the 09 888s this year(will try the 2010-11 bushes in them when I figure out how), but the Boxxers we have go out only a handful of times before they're so packed up with stiction from dust that they have to be pulled apart and regreased, ha ha, GREASED FFS! Isn't that why everyone hated Manitou back in the day, and they had grease ports(don't think anyone had the micro guns but). and 40s are much same accept they're lack of seals, but I don't have them on any rental bikes, just know from experience.
So the 888s are 1cm taller than Boxxers, why is this an issue accept for with maybe some long headtube frames? I thought slack was the new black. I thought the 888 lowers were the same height as the Boxxers, is the 1cm in the lower crown? Or just a bigger safety margin or more travel from the 888?
Is there any damping flaws, with the new 888s?
Is the rebound good, and controlabale in both high and low speed?
Any spiking at all with stock shimz?
CAN I SELL MY AVY CART WITH MY BOXXERS, OR SHOULD I KEEP IT FOR THE 888s I have coming? Performance wise, my Avy Boxxers are fine(when greased), I'm just over servicing Boxxers, and not having a bike that's allways good to go like a trusty old kids BMX.

as i'm riding a 2010 ti with the avy cartridge is say keep it.

 

[norbar]

i understand its a fast "fix" if it comes low on oil, but why did some even ship without the proper amount of oil in it??
and how often do you have to "re-lube" the fork? the amount of maintenance ive seen people do on their forks is ridiculous IMO

That's BS. I changed oil 3 times last season and I rode in horrible conditions. First a month on a flooded mountain that was very close to becoming cut off from the world, than very dusty French alps and some other tracks that mean a lot of crap getting into my fork. The only thing I did was apply progold on the stanctions every day but that takes like 30 seconds so where is this ridiculous maitanance you are talking about? I serviced my 07 888s twice a season and also used progold. So I change oil 1 more time a season. How can I live with that?

I'm really suprised how people can drop 1000+ $ on a fork and than be too lazy to take care of it.

 

[thad]

Broken forks at rampage is like getting sprayed with "fluid" at a Gwar concert.... it's expected:

Yeah, I dunno... TWO 888's sheared off at the crowns. No Boxxers failed, no 40's, no Dorados.

Doerfling's snapped hitting the Romo gap to wallride. It looked like he hit it pretty smooth to me. Sucks for Doerflinger, his run was sick, and would have made podium if his fork hadn't failed.
http://gallery.mtbr.com/showphoto.php/photo/348322/si/8

Gee hit the same gap with a 40. Romo crashed on it with a Dorado.

Hopkins folded his 888 casing the canyon gap. I think that might have broken any fork, though...

 

[IH8Rice]

That's BS. I changed oil 3 times last season and I rode in horrible conditions.

and you dont think changing the oil 3 times a year is ridiculous? i had my 888's oil changed once a year and it didnt look bad at all...and thats with riding every weekend.

its funny how Boxxer owner's try and justify that constant oil changes(3 for you) and having to re-lube their fork all the time is okay.

Yeah, I dunno... TWO 888's sheared off at the crowns. No Boxxers failed, no 40's, no Dorados.

on no! its the end of the world!
someone also mentioned the person who broke his 888, broke a 40

 

[fr-kye]

40's are personally my choice. i know some people with 888's and boxxers and i had 2 boxxers myself. 888's are a bit heavy and boxxers seem to just not put out the rake on a bike and get the headtube up enough. they are a little lower set. 888's have improved but 40's are still much ahead

 

[demo 9]

Ill say this with my fox expierience, all truths!

2009 40 rc2, lasted TWO yes TWO years before it blew some internal seals (causing fast rebound)-this had no maintenence

2010 40 rc2, this lasted 45 seconds before i scratched the stanction, it proceeded to last another 2 days before it pissed oil

other 2010 40 RC2, full year, no complaints, no maintenence

other 09 40 RC2 (bought used-pretty beat looking) This lasted half a year, before it started pissing oil on both sides (fox says due to worn stanctions/bushings)

3 years out of a 36 Talas, than blew a seal.

This is only my experience on my forks, Fox may say, that you must change the oil every 3 hucks and every 400 ECROX, however, i ran mine with no maintenance, for this amount of time on them, and i cant really find any flaw with fox.

*i ride East Coast Rox, almost never in the rain.

This said, my 05 888VF, worked fine for 3 years, with no maintenance either.

 

[HAB]

and you dont think changing the oil 3 times a year is ridiculous? i had my 888's oil changed once a year and it didnt look bad at all...and thats with riding every weekend.

Not really. Is it more often than I would like? For sure.


Also, riding every weekend? Don't think I saw you at Platty once this year.

 

[IH8Rice]

Also, riding every weekend? Don't think I saw you at Platty once this year.

fortunately (or unfortunately) there are other mountains besides platty. Blue is only 40 minutes from my house and platty is now 4hrs.


maybe "ridiculous" is strong, but like you said, it is more work. especially compared to a Dorado, 888 and or 40

 

[HAB]

fortunately (or unfortunately) there are other mountains besides platty. Blue is only 40 minutes from my house and platty is now 4hrs.

Haha, that was just an easy rip to get in. How is Blue? I never got around to getting down there for no particular reason. When I can get to Platty in well under 2hrs I end up there a lot.

maybe "ridiculous" is strong, but like you said, it is more work. especially compared to a Dorado, 888 and or 40

No doubt it's more work. I agree it's not ideal, I'm just fine putting up with it.

 

[IH8Rice]

Haha, that was just an easy rip to get in. How is Blue? I never got around to getting down there for no particular reason. When I can get to Platty in well under 2hrs I end up there a lot.




No doubt it's more work. I agree it's not ideal, I'm just fine putting up with it.

Blue mountain is fantastic. fast lift, big mountain, fun trails, and you can usually get a ton of runs in since its never usually crowded. and the bathrooms are great! lol
im sure its a hike for you but when you get down here, let me know and we'll tear it up.

 

[HAB]

Blue mountain is fantastic. fast lift, big mountain, fun trails, and you can usually get a ton of runs in since its never usually crowded. and the bathrooms are great! lol
im sure its a hike for you but when you get down here, let me know and we'll tear it up.

Sweet. No idea when I'll be around next, I'm in SoCal right now, and then have a few months in Australia lined up. I'll be in NY for at least a little while in August. Not sure how long though. Blue's actually not too much farther than Platty. If it's worth coming down I'll make it happen eventually. Are they open weekdays at all or just weekends?

 

[IH8Rice]

weekends only and its definitely worth the trip


/derail

 

[FlipFantasia]

My experience is different than your experience!

 

[Wa-Aw]

I bet 888ti's are great.

The only part of Marzochhi I'm gonna bash is their marketing department. I really think a bigger effort to make the 2010's seem different from the 08's and 09's would have gone a long way in their popularity. I'm 99% sure the product is amazing. They just aren't selling it well.

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

First post from the op made me think; fashion...

I've been on a 2010 Evo Ti for about 6 months now. I'm about 210 with gear riding the stock spring. I'm thinking of going to the stiffer spring as mine's got the pre-load cranked, but the tech guys said at my weight I could go either way. Brake dive isn't a problem for me, and I ride some pretty steep chutes. I don't get into the science of mid-speed-damperz and stuff, all I know is it works and works well.

Most annoying thing about it? All the people who wonder why I bought it when they haven't even tried it. "It's so hucker!" It seems that the only way to erase it's image is to get a WC podium again...

 

[Capricorn]

cliffy: do yourself a fava and get the stiffer spring. we about the same weight, and i too had the preload cranked to nearly full on the stock spring.

I'm on the RC3 EVO, and had horrible dive issues. Turned out the cart was a bugger and was replaced under RMA. I actually didnt know it was a stuff up because I had contacted marzo for a small oil leak issue, and from out of left field, marzo says i nEED to replace the cart cos the first batch of forks off the production line had a design issue, and almost on cue, the fork started diving like a mofo. I thought it was the lack of oil and associated loss of compression damping that caused the diving, but i was only half right, because after the leak was fixed (couple of out-of-shape o-rings upstream of the gold compression knob) and the oil replaced, the fork still dived pretty badly.

So replaced the cart and my word is that fork magical again. In fact, it is better than new. Previously, I would sit one click off full compression, now I'm about 4 clicks off full,and each click makes a nice appreciable difference. And the fact there is no specified maintenance interval? Pure bliss.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

So you finally found out, why you got the new cartridge? That's awesome