[ChrisRobin]

So I got one and only have one day to test it out. Overall, it works. It's not a night and day thing, but it almost feels like you're running a softer spring and whatever feedback you get from the rear is muffled. If you're suspension is set up well, then this just makes it 'feel' smoother. For pedaling, yeah you notice that dead space until you engage the elastomers but after that the pedaling is the same as before.

 

[bullcrew]

Curious as to how it would handle on a high pivot idler set up or mid high like session.
Want one for the nomad...but curious as to other suspension designs that keep movement during hits already

 

[captainspauldin]

So I got one and only have one day to test it out. Overall, it works. It's not a night and day thing, but it almost feels like you're running a softer spring and whatever feedback you get from the rear is muffled. If you're suspension is set up well, then this just makes it 'feel' smoother. For pedaling, yeah you notice that dead space until you engage the elastomers but after that the pedaling is the same as before.

This pretty much mirrors my experience with O-Chain. Seems to mute chatter/small bumps felt in my feet. I ride clipless with messed up feet and they are pretty sore after riding (I probably should switch to flats). With the O-Chain that soreness pretty much doesn't exist, so added bonus for me.

 

[Gary]

Curious as to how it would handle on a high pivot idler set up

Yeah. Those things definitely need even MOAR shit bolted to them.

 

[bullcrew]

Yeah. Those things definitely need even MOAR shit bolted to them.

Well shit , that's the answer I needed ..lol
Actually any answer would result in me trying to, so you are who I point to fault wise when wife asks why I bought more stuff...

Just curious to effect I can put it on the other bikes and see, they are vpp so it may be better suited...

 

[Gary]

Fair enough. Sounds like it's HER money

Last few weeks I've had more than my fair share of PITA hideously designed high pivot idler bikes to sort out.
You're not a hack or a kid who's daddy buys your bikes so all should go well bolting on your new toy

 

[bullcrew]

Fair enough. Sounds like it's HER money

Last few weeks I've had more than my fair share of PITA hideously designed high pivot idler bikes to sort out.
You're not a hack or a kid who's daddy buys your bikes so all should go well bolting on your new toy

In 25 years of marriage it's all hers lol...
Yeah in curious to how it acts with the idler and design...be curious to see how it does on the nomad ...LOVE that bike

 

[Andeh]

In 25 years of marriage it's all hers lol...
Yeah in curious to how it acts with the idler and design...be curious to see how it does on the nomad ...LOVE that bike

Looking at the graphs from the Nomad 4 vs the Nomad 6 (which I own, and don't feel needs Ochain at all), your N4's PK and AR figures are lower in the middle of travel. So I don't think Ochain is at all appropriate for the N4. If you're getting too much foot feedback, I'd try running it with an air shock. I know the N4 is very progressive, but running coil and air back to back on my N6, the firmer midstroke of coil gives me a small amount of foot fatigue on fast, square hits.

I said this before in the thread, but I ran an Ochain on my Megatrail. I think it helps on bikes with high AR (~100% in middle of travel), which tend to sit down into the lower LR part of travel when braking through square hits.

Santa Cruz Nomad IIII 2018

En esta entrada voy a analizar a la nueva Santa Cruz Nomad IIII 2018, un modelo muy interesante en el que Santa Cruz por fin se ha animado ...

linkagedesign.blogspot.com

Santa Cruz Nomad 6 2023

En e sta entrada voy a analizar a la nueva Santa Cruz Nomad V6, un modelo que este año ha recibido una pequeña actualización. A primera vist...

linkagedesign.blogspot.com

 

[bullcrew]

Looking at the graphs from the Nomad 4 vs the Nomad 6 (which I own, and don't feel needs Ochain at all), your N4's PK and AR figures are lower in the middle of travel. So I don't think Ochain is at all appropriate for the N4. If you're getting too much foot feedback, I'd try running it with an air shock. I know the N4 is very progressive, but running coil and air back to back on my N6, the firmer midstroke of coil gives me a small amount of foot fatigue on fast, square hits.

I said this before in the thread, but I ran an Ochain on my Megatrail. I think it helps on bikes with high AR (~100% in middle of travel), which tend to sit down into the lower LR part of travel when braking through square hits.

Santa Cruz Nomad IIII 2018

En esta entrada voy a analizar a la nueva Santa Cruz Nomad IIII 2018, un modelo muy interesante en el que Santa Cruz por fin se ha animado ...

linkagedesign.blogspot.com

Santa Cruz Nomad 6 2023

En e sta entrada voy a analizar a la nueva Santa Cruz Nomad V6, un modelo que este año ha recibido una pequeña actualización. A primera vist...

linkagedesign.blogspot.com

Hightower LT? Got a 2019 I built up as well ..

So based on what your seeing what's your thoughts on the session high pivot? I've read and gone over it's back and forth but input is always appreciated, someone else's angle.


Also what's your take on the V6 Nomad? Have you ridden the v4?.
I like the way the v4 lacks pedalloling a little but has great DH. Prowess.

 

[Andeh]

Hightower LT? Got a 2019 I built up as well ..

So based on what your seeing what's your thoughts on the session high pivot? I've read and gone over it's back and forth but input is always appreciated, someone else's angle.


Also what's your take on the V6 Nomad? Have you ridden the v4?.
I like the way the v4 lacks pedalloling a little but has great DH. Prowess.

HT LT needs Ochain even less. Lower AS/AR. That one still has the old style LR curve that's regressive to progressive, so coil will work really well on it to help firm up the mid.

S.C. Hightower LT 2018

En el año 2016 Santa Cruz presentó un nuevo modelo para sustituir a la clásica SC Tallboy LT... la SC Hightower. Este modelo tenía una geom...

linkagedesign.blogspot.com

I haven't ridden any HP bikes, but I see nothing in the AR/PK curves for the Session HP that makes me think Ochain would be at all necessary. PK is almost zero throughout travel. AR is around 70% and consistent, which should make the rear end stay active under braking.

Trek Session DH 2022

"Looks like a Session" es uno de los comentarios mas habituales cuando cualquier marca intenta fabricar un modelo de DH con un diseño tipo 4...

linkagedesign.blogspot.com

I am really impressed with the N6. I haven't ridden the N4, but had a 3 (similar to HT LT in terms of suspension design). The N6 is efficient climbing (little pedal bob seated, a bit standing but manageable) but not so much so that descending suffers. With the N6 revision, they dialed back the LR rate a bit (to start right around 3) so that the High flip chip position is a bit firmer off the top and poppier, but you can still go to Low position to make it softer off the top. The geometry is pretty dialed too. They (IMO appropriately) lengthened the CS just enough to make the mullet setup handle more balanced. Head angle is slack enough to ride anything you'd want to on a 170 bike, without not getting so slack that it's a total pig on tighter stuff. Seat angle is nice and steep and puts you in a nice upright position climbing. BB is high enough not to have issues with pedal strikes & 170mm cranks. I guess I'd sum it up by saying it's literally the first bike I've owned where I'd struggle to find fault with something.

 

[Gary]

Facts?

Pfft...

TAKE HIS WIFE'S MONEY

 

[Jm_]

We are saying "HP", but HP was always relative to the chain line before HP-idler bikes, stuff like old SCs and the terrible designs that predated those. THOSE HP bikes have a ton of kickback because it's like 300% anti-squat or something, so much that we used to call them "semi active" designs, as there was a significant degree of "lock out" when trying to pedal in rough stuff. They broke traction so damn easily uphill IME. With idlers, this all goes right out the window.

 

[Gary]

"High Pivot" has always refered to the position of the main pivot. Clue's in the name.
High pivot bikes with idlers have been around for a very long time now.

What old SCs are you talking about? Hecklers and super 8s and Bullits? None of of those had a high pivot. Their main pivot was in line with the big ring and forwards of it.
Orange are the only brand I can think of left still hanging onto that design

 

[Jm_]

"High Pivot" has always refered to the position of the main pivot. Clue's in the name.
High pivot bikes with idlers have been around for a very long time now.

What old SCs are you talking about? Hecklers and super 8s and Bullits? None of of those had a high pivot. Their main pivot was in line with the big ring and forwards of it.
Orange are the only brand I can think of left still hanging onto that design

You forget that many, if not most, of these bikes had 3 ring setups and compared to where the chain was on that climbing gear, the pivot was way above the chainline. Thanks for reading.

 

[Gary]

No. I don't "forget"
It's fucking irrelevant

 

[Jm_]

 

[Jm_]

 

[Gary]

FFS
What's wrong with you?

 

[Gary]

No one's talking about putting a $500 elastomer sprung floating spider on one of those shitty relics

 

[buckoW]

@ChrisRobin It’s very easy to see the effects of the O-Chain in the DAQ as well as rider feedback. Many times we have to go up a spring rate.

 

[kidwoo]

View attachment 200384

@ChrisRobin It’s very easy to see the effects of the O-Chain in the DAQ as well as rider feedback. Many times we have to go up a spring rate.

now compare a non-O setup between a clutch vs non-clutch derailleur

 

[buckoW]

now compare a non-O setup between a clutch vs non-clutch derailleur

Why do you think I haven’t?

How about you try a DH bike at WC speeds on a real track?

 

[kidwoo]

Why do you think I haven’t?

then share it

How about you try a DH bike at WC speeds on a real track?

why don't you put your insecure little dick back in your pants and address what I'm talking about?

 

[buckoW]

then share it



why don't you put your insecure little dick back in your pants and address what I'm talking about?

Share what? A derailleur without a clutch? Or the switch on a Saint?

I’m not going to share everything I do on here. I already share enough.
We had to go up a spring rate on Gonçalo B’s bike in Les Gets when we put the Ochain on there. I’m not riding at WC speeds, fyi. I’m talking about the guys who do and how it’s easy to see in the data.

I know what you are talking about and used to think the same. Agree to disagree?

 

[kidwoo]

We had to go up a spring rate on Gonçalo B’s bike in Les Gets when we put the Ochain on there.

Yeah man. And I've done the same thing when I took clutch deraileurs off my bike. Wonder why.

If you're going to brag about data then talk data. Not some sensationalized photo with "I know things bro" with the message just being there's a new product in the bike industry that's revolutionary. We got 30 years of that shit now and very little of it ever panned out.

And if you're not going to share data then shut up about it. Cuz hate to break it to you, but you're not the only one who rides fast and knows how bikes work.

 

[buckoW]

@kidwoo

No clutch

 

[kidwoo]

wow who's wc race bike is that?

You don't seem capable of getting my point on this so I'll spell it out: Most well designed bikes eliminated anything even remotely relevant in terms of pedal kickback eons ago. This is because (like I've always said) in higher gears, and coasting, a good suspension setup takes up tension in the chain and ditches it in the derailluer. Why this is now a 'thing' is because dumbasses are screwing around with pivot locations AND MORE IMPORTANTLY TO ALL BIKES, clutch derailleurs hinder that process. I don't need a god damn WC finish result to understand that. Ditch clutch derailleurs and the need for elastomer mounted chainrings almost disappears.

 

[buckoW]

Yeah man. And I've done the same thing when I took clutch deraileurs off my bike. Wonder why.

If you're going to brag about data then talk data. Not some sensationalized photo with "I know things bro" with the message just being there's a new product in the bike industry that's revolutionary. We got 30 years of that shit now and very little of it actually every panned out.

And if you're not going to share data then shut up about it. Cuz hate to break it to you, but you're not the only one who rides fast and knows how bikes work.

Wow. You’re getting pretty nasty lately.

I work with the Scott DH team since 2009. I just got back from Les Gets and did a bunch of setup/data with Marine Cabirou and Dylan Levesque. I’m very sorry but I can’t put up the data. I will stop making claims.

 

[kidwoo]

Wow. You’re getting pretty nasty lately.

I work with the Scott DH team since 2009. I just got back from Les Gets and did a bunch of setup/data with Marine Cabirou and Dylan Levesque. I’m very sorry but I can’t put up the data. I will stop making claims.

You expect to waive around credentials and just have everyone nod and go 'well, industry guy says....'

Probably not news to you but many of us who ride bikes tired of that long ago because many of us realized that so many of the people doing this are fucking morons who just wanted to sell snake oil. So if you're going to wag credentials then waive the thing that gives you credibility. Don't brag about someone you work with collecting data if 1. you don't understand it yourself or 2. you don't actually want people to see it

Go test a bike with and without a clutch derailleur. And then with an ochain with and without a clutchy derailleur and compare. If you've done that then talk about it instead of just getting defensive.....because that makes it look like you actually haven't. Not a picture of a singlespeed tensioner, the thing we're actually talking about on a bike with a derailleur.

The last time someone with something to sell bike customers said 'trust' it looked like this, which speaks for itself

I'm testy because you don't seem capable of discussing this stuff without some dumbass "bUt yOu dOnT rAcE wOrLd cUpS bRo"

Newsflash: neither do the people who design this shit

 

[buckoW]

You expect to waive around credentials and just have everyone nod and go 'well, industry guy says....'

Probably not news to you but many of us who ride bikes tired of that long ago because many of us realized that so many of the people doing this are fucking morons who just wanted to sell snake oil. So if you're going to wag credentials then waive the thing that gives you credibility. Don't brag about someone you work with collecting data if 1. you don't understand it yourself or 2. you don't actually want people to see it

Go test a bike with and without a clutch derailleur. And then with an ochain with and without a clutchy derailleur and compare. The last time someone with something to sell bike customers said 'trust' it looked like this, which speaks for itself

View attachment 200393

I'm testy because you don't seem capable of discussing this stuff without some dumbass "bUt yOu dOnT rAcE wOrLd cUpS bRo"

Newsflash: neither do the people who design this shit

Fuck man…. Ok, I will not do that anymore! Thanks for keeping me inline.
I’m so far from an industry bro but hey. I’m just flexing my «insecure little dick »
Carry on….

 

[kidwoo]

Fuck man…. Ok, I will not do that anymore! Thanks for keeping me inline.
I’m so far from an industry bro but hey. I’m just flexing my «insecure little dick »
Carry on….

What difference did you see between an ochain vs non ochain setup in comparison to a clutch vs non clutch derailleur setup?

You scoffed at the idea that you hadnt compared these so what was the difference?

 

[buckoW]

What difference did you see between an ochain vs non ochain setup in comparison to a clutch vs non clutch derailleur setup?

You scoffed at the idea that you hadnt compared these so what was the difference?

No scoffing at all. I’m simply sharing my opinion. Apologies that I come off wrong.
O-Chain is not a sponsor of the team.

Sincerely,
- Little Dick Industry Bro

 

[kidwoo]

No scoffing at all. I’m simply sharing my opinion.

Man......

Anyone use an Ochain thingy?

So I got one and only have one day to test it out. Overall, it works. It's not a night and day thing, but it almost feels like you're running a softer spring and whatever feedback you get from the rear is muffled. If you're suspension is set up well, then this just makes it 'feel' smoother. For...

ridemonkey.bikemag.com

 

[buckoW]

I know, I know. Completely full of shit!
It’s just my opinion and I’m totally willing to be wrong.

-LDIB

 

[kidwoo]

-LDIB

dont tempt me, my neighbor has tatoo needles....

 

[buckoW]

dont tempt me, my neighbor has tatoo needles....

I’m hoping Sandwich makes it happen

 

[sethimus]

and this is why we can’t have nice things

old people ruining everything

 

[iRider]

To get us back on track: I am wondering if it does someting similar as the rear wheel hub damper on a motorcycle wheel?

 

[HardtailHack]

To get us back on track: I am wondering if it does someting similar as the rear wheel hub damper on a motorcycle wheel?

Wouldn't that be there just to reduce the peak load on the chain?
There's a pretty cool vid on YT about the big bang engine and how its power output allows the bike to maintain traction better than others.
Sorry, the thread got back on topic for too long.

 

[djjohnr]

@ChrisRobin It’s very easy to see the effects of the O-Chain in the DAQ as well as rider feedback. Many times we have to go up a spring rate.

Thanks for sharing