Wow, from a rendering?i'm sure the real thing with a nice racey build around it will look killer! It's my dream bike for sure...
with the uber-success of the Sunday I can't imagine why they wouldn't all but copy those geo numbers.Does anyone know if the geometry of the new DHR is the same or close to that of the Sunday? I ask because, although the DW-Link no doubt works, the thing that set the Sunday apart from me was the geometry and the body position it put you in. I'd happily take a bike which wasn't quite as good in the CADworkspivotfluiddynamicsratecurvewhatsitsname if I can work with the angles better.
Looks flexy?
"All in all though, link spacing is not something that is really a focus. I'm looking more at absolute suspension performance and structural performance."
It mostly comes from trust i have in Dave's previous frames, that i will like how this frame looks in person. I like the industrial/workhorse style...Wow, from a rendering?
I think you missed the point... he didn't focus solely on link spacing, instead absolute structural performance, ie, by putting material where it needs to be and using large diameter pivots = stiff enough chassis for DH racing!From this;
"All in all though, link spacing is not something that is really a focus. I'm looking more at absolute suspension performance and structural performance."
Say what now? Link spacing not a focus? Structural performance? Form or Function Dave - I've got to guess this design is compromised structurally from the need for it to LOOK like a Turner. Carrot's not withstanding, pivots close together = less stiff in torsion (though I guess the come-back is 'less stiff, but still above a required threshold')
Possibly I missed the point. Possibly its smoke and mirrors to obscure a compromised design.I think you missed the point... he didn't focus solely on link spacing, instead absolute structural performance, ie, by putting material where it needs to be and using large diameter pivots = stiff enough chassis for DH racing!
All else being equal, wider spacing always means stiffer. Always.I figure, wide links does not necessarily make a stiff bike. Its how they are done thats key. And again, not to repeat myself, but dave and dave are smart little buggers, and know a think or two about building bikes, so I am able to give them the benefit of the doubt, at least until proven wrong in the real world.
I understand completely, and I agree about the stiffness bit. But, look at the current DHR. Everything is relatively compact, yet it makes for a nice stiff bike. So, I guess really, we'll see when it comes out.
Ride like a feather weight? It's going to be a feather weight!For Christs sake can we get rid of that "Official Ironhorse/DW Tech and Tuning Section" thread, it is so passe. We need an Official Turner/DW Tech and Tuning Section so I can inter-tune my new Inter-bike!
Seriously though, if the production model looks at all like the picture, that bike is going to ride like it is a feather weight. Center of mass could not be any more low and centered than that!
The Sunday was impressively light, but this bike's frame takes it to a new level in my opinion. Alone it weighs in the 7's, and in the low 8's with shock. Its light and strong at the same time.
Lol - I think that thead will be around as long as people are ripping on their 05 - 09 dw-link Sundays...For Christs sake can we get rid of that "Official Ironhorse/DW Tech and Tuning Section" thread, it is so passe. We need an Official Turner/DW Tech and Tuning Section so I can inter-tune my new Inter-bike!
Seriously though, if the production model looks at all like the picture, that bike is going to ride like it is a feather weight. Center of mass could not be any more low and centered than that!
True, but longer links are always flexier. Always.All else being equal, wider spacing always means stiffer. Always.
Links themselves should never be flexing. The pivots in either end are what flex. A longer link can sometimes offer more mechanical advantage to torsionally load the bearing in the end.True, but longer links are always flexier. Always.
Can you show me the links on the bikes you designed and successfully brought to market? I'd just like to compare.That said, the link layout on that DHR is simply retarded from a structural standpoint. I should buy stock in whoever is supplying pivot/linkage kits for that thing.
I was thinking about that too, but heres what i came up with.
If you look at quite a few VPP bikes, the linkages are further apart, which in theory is like holding the swingarm at the widest point, thereby making things nice and stiff.
But the single pivot DHR has everything in one spot, and its still stiff.
.
Dude I know.Links themselves should never be flexing. The pivots in either end are what flex. A longer link can sometimes offer more mechanical advantage to torsionally load the bearing in the end.
That said, the link layout on that DHR is simply retarded from a structural standpoint. I should buy stock in whoever is supplying pivot/linkage kits for that thing.
When there's a majorly profitable market for high end DH frames you'll see a design out of me.Can you show me the links on the bikes you designed and successfully brought to market? I'd just like to compare.
Must spread rep!well thats not nice of you at all! Clearly you have all the answers to building the ultimate DH bike of all time, and yet you hold it back for something as trivial as money??
Won't somebody please think of the children.
What I mean is, put up or shut up.
Then try linking to it so lazy folk don't have to copy&paste!:biggrin:Rep? whats that?
Just send people to my damn site.
An real engineer with time on his hands and the proper tools will come up with something sound. There aren't many of those in the bike industry however. Because (guess what!) it doesn't pay out.well thats not nice of you at all! Clearly you have all the answers to building the ultimate DH bike of all time, and yet you hold it back for something as trivial as money??
Won't somebody please think of the children.
What I mean is, put up or shut up.
Any idea what the shear limit is of a M10 bolt? Or the tension required to undo precision ground threads at the proper torque? How about for an M4? How much load do you think is put on that bolt being translated into a bending moment? Collect those figures and I think you'll see that for torsional loads any high quality bolt will provide the proper tightness for a secondary pivot, which is all it is there for. Bolt size is irrelevant except for contact width on the inner race of a bearing if it is actually in contact.The top link is pretty much just like the one in this picture except with big burly large diameter hardware instead of pinner little bolts,........ and the bottom one is like the lower chainstay up through the yolk, except with one more pivot (again with big burly large diameter hardware) and a vertical support between the chainstay and seatstay whereas this one in the pic has none.
W00t! You tellin' us it's wrong to fall in love with smurfette?Wow, from a rendering?
because david turner hasn't exactly made a name for himself by copying and being a lemmingwith the uber-success of the Sunday I can't imagine why they wouldn't all but copy those geo numbers.
Dude, you just forfeited your right to comment on anything engineering or design related for the rest of your life.Links themselves should never be flexing. The pivots in either end are what flex.
Not really. If they're designed and tempered right they shouldn't be flexing a bit, at least nowhere in the same order of magnitude as a rotating/sliding interface. Sometimes they do though in a poor/weak design. Other times from fatigue.Dude, you just forfeited your right to comment on anything engineering or design related for the rest of your life.
On a more generic note about questions regarding geometry and suspension performance, Dave designed the Sunday years ago. I suspect he learned some things since then. He's smart like that.
Dude, links are not tempered, at least if we are talking about the aluminum control links which I hope you are. They are machined from either the cast or forged billets. So the only design parameter to take into account vs. a cast billet is that with forged you can modify grain structure for increase strength via such things as hoop stress.Not really. If they're designed and tempered right they shouldn't be flexing a bit, at least nowhere in the same order of magnitude as a rotating/sliding interface. Sometimes they do though in a poor/weak design. Other times from fatigue.
Not really. If they're designed and tempered right they shouldn't be flexing a bit, at least nowhere in the same order of magnitude as a rotating/sliding interface. Sometimes they do though in a poor/weak design. Other times from fatigue.
Damn dude, did you go to a tech school?!?!Dude, links are not tempered, at least if we are talking about the aluminum control links which I hope you are. They are machined from either the cast or forged billets. So the only design parameter to take into account vs. a cast billet is that with forged you can modify grain structure for increase strength via such things as hoop stress.
I'm with Ohio, booooo