The Official Iron Horse Sunday / DW-Link Tech. & Tuning Section
- Thread starter S.K.C.
- Start date
I am almost your exact same height and I ride a medium (17) with a 55mm stem.
I am 1,84 cm and run a medium too, fits perfect
This is correct - sometime mid-February is when they will be arriving.
Hey there.. awesome thread by the way!
I have recently purchased an 08 Sunday Team with the DHX 3. Got a couple of queries.
1. OK the shock is 9.5 / 3in of stroke right? Should the spring be the same rate?
The spring that came with the shock is rated at 300x3.25 - is this supposed to be correct? I am pretty sure that the spring has to be longer.. but want to make sure. If I purchase a Ti spring, I am finding it hard to find a 3.25, but there are 3.5 available, can I get this.. and will and how will a longer stroke effect performance?
2. From this thread there is mention that the Fox shock supplied with the Sunday is tuned to only take about 70-80psi.. is this the case with my DHX 3 (I am in Australia)?
3. I am pretty heavy, close to 90kgs (198lbs) with gear on, and it seems my sag setting seems about right at 35-40%... (I should measure it properly), anyhow I am hitting my pedals a lot more than my previous downhill bike, I know the BB is a lot lower, but should I be running a heavier spring. I am not really bottoming out as I had about 130psi in the rear shock. I loved the performance of the rear end, but will it be better if i go say a 400lb spring and 70psi air?
I am loving it so far.. thanks in advance for the help
I have recently purchased an 08 Sunday Team with the DHX 3. Got a couple of queries.
1. OK the shock is 9.5 / 3in of stroke right? Should the spring be the same rate?
The spring that came with the shock is rated at 300x3.25 - is this supposed to be correct? I am pretty sure that the spring has to be longer.. but want to make sure. If I purchase a Ti spring, I am finding it hard to find a 3.25, but there are 3.5 available, can I get this.. and will and how will a longer stroke effect performance?
2. From this thread there is mention that the Fox shock supplied with the Sunday is tuned to only take about 70-80psi.. is this the case with my DHX 3 (I am in Australia)?
3. I am pretty heavy, close to 90kgs (198lbs) with gear on, and it seems my sag setting seems about right at 35-40%... (I should measure it properly), anyhow I am hitting my pedals a lot more than my previous downhill bike, I know the BB is a lot lower, but should I be running a heavier spring. I am not really bottoming out as I had about 130psi in the rear shock. I loved the performance of the rear end, but will it be better if i go say a 400lb spring and 70psi air?
I am loving it so far.. thanks in advance for the help
I think you should go for a heavier spring, 400lb? I´m 72kg on a 300lb spring and I get around 30% sag. The dhx gets more sensetive with less psi. I guess that bike is designed for 30-35% sag.
3.25in is the stroke length of the spring. So, if you go down to f.i. a 2.75in spring you will bottom out your spring BEFORE you bottom out the shock and it will damage your shock. Your shock has 3.0in stroke, so the spring must be > 3.0in stroke. But 3.5in might not fit, it´s probebly too long.
3.25in is the stroke length of the spring. So, if you go down to f.i. a 2.75in spring you will bottom out your spring BEFORE you bottom out the shock and it will damage your shock. Your shock has 3.0in stroke, so the spring must be > 3.0in stroke. But 3.5in might not fit, it´s probebly too long.
I would personally give it a little more time before switching springs, give yourself time to adjust to the lower bottom bracket. Have you bottomed out at all? If not then definitly give it some time. A lot of people complain about the low bottom bracket but once you adjust to it it's really not that bad and, as you've probably already found out, it makes the bike rail corners.
Hi CarlE,
yeah you are right, after some runs I got used to the low bb even with 170mm cranks. Not a big deal. Hopefully the mystirious 09 Sunday will keep such a low BB
I weight around 87 kg with full kit and used a 350 spring this season (bottom out fully cranked in, around 85 psi u and zero propedal). I bottomend out a lot and it felt definitly too soft for me.
With my gear i weight about 70 KG and i will use a 350 spring. My friend weight 75Kg, use a 450 spring since a long time for fast DH-riding and like the hard shock.
Please note that this price is for JUST the lower link.
According to the leverage ratio ranges SRAM give for the different vivids, the B-Tune is actually what they recommend for the Sunday. But I'd disagree and suggest the A-Tune, especially if your weight demands a 250-350lb spring. The LSR seems too slow on the B-Tune shock even when all the way out (possibly slightly slower than a DHX), but unlike the DHX and associated sunday-tune BS, the different vivid tunes actually use different shaft part numbers, which very likely means larger rebound (therefore LSR) porting.
Not sure where to get one, but just confirming that it's probably worth getting one if you can get your hands on it.
Not sure where to get one, but just confirming that it's probably worth getting one if you can get your hands on it.
S.K.C. also mentioned the A-tune awhile back
We're working with Rock Shox on bringing some in. Wish I had more information but it's still in the works as far as stamping out the details goes. I'll keep you guys updated.
I weigh in identically to you, and am currently running a 275lb (progressive) spring on a DHX5 and getting 33% sag, maybe 34% with gear on. That's probably not a spring rate option on the vivid though... can you even get a 250 in steel for it? What about Ti (I think obtanium had one listed)?
I'm not really sure on the answers but it's probably worth thinking about. Personally I don't feel the DHX really loses out to the vivid and would stick with the former because it's lighter and leaves guys of our weight with a lot more spring options.
Hey guys what's up?
OK - I definitely need ot update the front page with "A-Tune" info, more spring weights, more info about shocks and shipment updates - I'm getting slammed with work right now, but I'll have all of this done by the middle of next week.
SRAM recommends the "A-Tune" for the Sunday but unfortunately because the shock is a new product, a lot of places don't even have it in stock, let alone know that there are different tunes available.
Info about the Vivid should spread as time goes by though...
OK - I definitely need ot update the front page with "A-Tune" info, more spring weights, more info about shocks and shipment updates - I'm getting slammed with work right now, but I'll have all of this done by the middle of next week.
SRAM recommends the "A-Tune" for the Sunday but unfortunately because the shock is a new product, a lot of places don't even have it in stock, let alone know that there are different tunes available.
Info about the Vivid should spread as time goes by though...
SRAM's recommendation of the B-Tune came from here:
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2805163&postcount=47
The Sunday is close enough to linear (not that it matters given the small margin changes for falling/rising rates), 2.66:1 falls clearly in the B-Tune range according to them.
But yeah I do agree with you that the A-Tune would be the one to pick, I'll wait till I've ridden one before I comment on the rebound damping but the fact that it runs a different shaft sounds like it may have the required change.
The compression damping on the B-Tune shock isn't an issue IMO, so the fact that the dw-link bike has more anti-squat shouldn't change SRAM's leverage ratio range recommendations, the issue is that there's too much LS rebound damping at minimum adjuster setting especially for lighter spring rates. So it's probably safe to say SRAM just screwed up a little with their recommendations listed above, or didn't see the issue with rebound damping that I did.
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2805163&postcount=47
The Sunday is close enough to linear (not that it matters given the small margin changes for falling/rising rates), 2.66:1 falls clearly in the B-Tune range according to them.
But yeah I do agree with you that the A-Tune would be the one to pick, I'll wait till I've ridden one before I comment on the rebound damping but the fact that it runs a different shaft sounds like it may have the required change.
The compression damping on the B-Tune shock isn't an issue IMO, so the fact that the dw-link bike has more anti-squat shouldn't change SRAM's leverage ratio range recommendations, the issue is that there's too much LS rebound damping at minimum adjuster setting especially for lighter spring rates. So it's probably safe to say SRAM just screwed up a little with their recommendations listed above, or didn't see the issue with rebound damping that I did.
Wait a sec...
EDIT: Nevermind... sleep deprivation is an ugly thing...
Udi - needed to send you something - could you clear your PM's?
EDIT: Nevermind... sleep deprivation is an ugly thing...
Udi - needed to send you something - could you clear your PM's?
Except that the Sunday uses a 3" stroke shock, not a 3.5".
8" / 3" = 2.667
8" / 3" = 2.667
Yep - I just had a bad case of dyslexia...
9.5 x 3.0... NOT 3.5....
Jeez...
I need a nap... that was embarassing.
9.5 x 3.0... NOT 3.5....
Jeez...
I need a nap... that was embarassing.
Hay there Im new to this site(im from NewZealand and use Vorb), I posted on Vorb that I was having problems with side side movement in the linkage on my second hand 06 repainted Sunday frame with the red DW link, now what im wondering is do the pins that go threw the DW link , menat to have a litle movement , because im trying to get to the bottom of the ridculous amount of play , but cant find the solution, and I can not afford a new kit so am going to try and get my teacher at school to machine me some up, also I was reading about spacers, currently my dw link only has 2 spacers( on there rear) to sapce it between the frame/bearing and the dw link, is it meant to have 2 at the front?
Any help would be really apreciated.
Harry McDonald.
Any help would be really apreciated.
Harry McDonald.
Harry - welcome to the Monkey!
Definitely! There should be 2 thin spacers on the front part of the link as well where it connects to the pivot point at the bottom of the frame.
EDIT: These spacers should be located between the bearing face and the side of the link so it would be: Bearing-Spacer-Link.
I'm not sure if IH still stocks them but when I had the same issue with my 05, they sent me a set of spacers in different widths to take up the play.
Jack - that was a different issue. Back in 05' there were some frames from the initial production run with bearing bore issues, so to solve that problem Iron Horse made Shim Kits to either add to or replace the existing 4 spacers (2 at the front of the lower link and 2 at the back where it connects to the rear triangle).
If I am understanding what Harry is saying - he purchased a Sunday used, and is asking if there are supposed to be 2 spacers on either side of the front of the lower link. This leads me to believe that these spacers are somehow missing, and given that it's a used 06' frame, it's possible that the previous owner lost them when re-assembling the bike after a tear-down and didn't bother to put them back in.
If I am understanding what Harry is saying - he purchased a Sunday used, and is asking if there are supposed to be 2 spacers on either side of the front of the lower link. This leads me to believe that these spacers are somehow missing, and given that it's a used 06' frame, it's possible that the previous owner lost them when re-assembling the bike after a tear-down and didn't bother to put them back in.
Exactly, Thanks for your help man you seem to be very helpful to everyone and a credit to Ironhorse.With the spacers are they meant to be a certain size? or should I just get some spacers and shim/pack it so theres no play? also the (Im not sure what they are called but they go threw the DW link, and there got big end which are tapered middles) are these meant to have a tiny amount of play in them? or should they be nice and stiff in the DW link?
And again any help really apreciated.
Cheer's Harry.
Hmmm... no there should not be any play in the axle with the tapered center section that goes through the back of the lower link (although it does say "dw-link" on it - just to make sure we are both using the same terminology, it's just known as the "lower link")
How long have you been riding it without the 2 front spacers? It's possible that under load, the extra play in the front end of the link where the spacers are missing has transmitted torquing forces to the back end of the link and may have put some things out of alignment.
For that matter how long has the previous owner been riding it w/o the 2 front spacers? Yikes.
OK - could you send me some pics from a digi camera of:
1) The inside of the frame bearing holes where the front of the lower link connects to uprights - left and right side.
2) The holes in the front and back end of the lower link (both sides - left and right)
3) The inside of the rear triangle where the back end of the lower link connects left and right side.
Just send em' to me in a Private Message or "PM".
I'll take a look at the pics and then we'll take it from there.
Hey - thanks man, I really appreciate it! Glad I could help. The spacers are supposed to be a certain thickness, but first I'd like to see what the condition is of the contact points where the lower link connects to the frame.
After using a saw, an hamer , a bit of patience and a file I ended up with u super duper Crank/BB setup on my sunday...
The crank fits really well, chainline is ok and the space between the cranks and both sides of the swingarm is ok. I only need to adjust the upper E13 guide a bit... work in progress
The crank fits really well, chainline is ok and the space between the cranks and both sides of the swingarm is ok. I only need to adjust the upper E13 guide a bit... work in progress
How?
With zero bb spacers, the chainline would be ~52mm which I suppose would be OK.... but to have propper spindle engagement in the non-drive side arm, the maximum cup to cup distance (inner faces) is 75.5mm. Your bb is 83mm.
Hay there I rode on the frame for about a week (including a shutle day at the local dh track) so I dont know what kind of damage could of been done. I have no clue how long the seller rode on it for , I dont think it was very long , but maybe long enough? Also I was just at my mates (cause my bikes there with bearings pressed out, cause I dont have the tools) and I took some pictures, but I couldn't manage to send them threw a pm, So I sent them to my email adress so I could figure out at home, but they havn'y shown, so il ahve to go back to my mates tommorow(24 hours) , Im so sorry if this has caused inconvinece or any other problems.Hmmm... no there should not be any play in the axle with the tapered center section that goes through the back of the lower link (although it does say "dw-link" on it - just to make sure we are both using the same terminology, it's just known as the "lower link")
How long have you been riding it without the 2 front spacers? It's possible that under load, the extra play in the front end of the link where the spacers are missing has transmitted torquing forces to the back end of the link and may have put some things out of alignment.
For that matter how long has the previous owner been riding it w/o the 2 front spacers? Yikes.
OK - could you send me some pics from a digi camera of:
1) The inside of the frame bearing holes where the front of the lower link connects to uprights - left and right side.
2) The holes in the front and back end of the lower link (both sides - left and right)
3) The inside of the rear triangle where the back end of the lower link connects left and right side.
Just send em' to me in a Private Message or "PM".
I'll take a look at the pics and then we'll take it from there.
Hey - thanks man, I really appreciate it! Glad I could help. The spacers are supposed to be a certain thickness, but first I'd like to see what the condition is of the contact points where the lower link connects to the frame.
Cheer's Harry.
Hey - no worries!
I didn't know how to send pics either at one time... what you need to do is open an account with Photobucket or another picture-hosting web service - it's free and only takes a few minutes. Upload your pics form there and once that's done you will have a link to the photo programmed in HTML that you can cut and paste to your PM.
UPDATE: Guys - the new 08' Linkage kits and sperate Vivid Compatible Lower Links are IN. Check the front page for more detials.
:biggrin:
Ok thanks will have those photos to you tommorow.Hey - no worries!
I didn't know how to send pics either at one time... what you need to do is open an account with Photobucket or another picture-hosting web service - it's free and only takes a few minutes. Upload your pics form there and once that's done you will have a link to the photo programmed in HTML that you can cut and paste to your PM.
UPDATE: Guys - the new 08' Linkage kits and sperate Vivid Compatible Lower Links are IN. Check the front page for more detials.
:biggrin:
bernard, what crankarm length?