[Toshi]

https://jalopnik.com/care-by-volvo-is-off-to-a-messy-start-1825777459

This jives with my experience, unfortunately.

Initial word was late April delivery, electronic paperwork for Liberty Mutual and Volvo Credit to be filled out a month before delivery.

Then it turned into Apr 28 in NJ at the port, at the dealer May 6 revised to May 8, with the same promise wrt paperwork.

Well, it's May 4 now and I haven't filled out squat. My Volvo Concierge has nothing to offer. Reverse chronological order:

Unfortunately we are still waiting for information on the paperwork in order to send it out to you.

Hopefully we have that information shortly.

Yes unfortunately I do not have any more information. I apologize about the frustration that this is causing.

As soon as I have information, I will be reaching out to you!

Unfortunately I do not have the paperwork just yet.

As soon as I get more information I will reach out!

I appreciate your patience in this matter!

I sent a generic "reaching out for thoughts" email to my local dealer contact. They have an XC40 R-Design on the lot but I don't want to actually buy such a wee gas-powered SUV. Whole point was the pushing the future off by 2 years bit.

 

[Toshi]

I can back out of the Care by Volvo deal at this point easily. With the dealer it's a touch more messy--I had him order the hitch parts for me. Worst case I bought myself part of a hitch...

One strategy would be to play hardball with Volvo corporate: I will go forward with the deal if and only if they pay for car rental from my May 6 projected delivery date until the vehicle actually arrives. I don't really want to rent for another undefined amount of time now that biking season (and still possibly ski season!) is getting underway.

 

[Westy]

I can back out of the Care by Volvo deal at this point easily. With the dealer it's a touch more messy--I had him order the hitch parts for me. Worst case I bought myself part of a hitch...

One strategy would be to play hardball with Volvo corporate: I will go forward with the deal if and only if they pay for car rental from my May 6 projected delivery date until the vehicle actually arrives. I don't really want to rent for another undefined amount of time now that biking season (and still possibly ski season!) is getting underway.

That sucks, you shouldn't be paying for that hitch one way or the other.

 

[Toshi]

Rental car review:

2017 Nissan Altima SV. 35k miles on odo, rented from a Denver neighborhood Enterprise.

Pros:

- 2.5L 4 banger + CVT was much more refined and tolerable than in the tractor-like Sentra I had recently
- mid 30s gas mileage realized
- relatively low cowl and a beltline neither high nor low
- enough rear legroom that my younger kid's rear-facing car seat fit with several inches to spare behind the driver's seat
- blind spot warning

Cons:

- 37.4' turning circle and 192" length means it's not that easy to maneuver for a technically midsize sedan (I see that the new Accord is even worse--I blame big wheel/tire packages)
- not enough headroom in the rear for me--heard this complaint before?
- mousey gray-black interior and small, shitty radio screen felt very rental spec despite this being technically the mid-level trim
- more a complaint with the tires than anything, but with 6/32" in the rear and just under 5/32" up front this Altima hydroplaned more easily than any vehicle I've driven... but then again I don't scrimp on tires for my own vehicles
- no autobrake, adaptive cruise, etc. whereas Toyota and Honda are now making these things standard on these kinds of cars

Verdict: I've had worse. Powertrain wasn't bad and it served fine to cart the kids around. Not the best vehicle to head up into the snowy mountains especially with those tires, as I found out, but that was my fault, not the car's.

Epilogue: When I checked the car back in at Enterprise the lady at the counter immediately grabbed a tread depth checker, and indeed one of the 4 tires came up as in the red on her tool (which apparently draws the line at 5/32"). She ended up giving me $10 off the rental ($70 for two days after this) and a free upgrade on my next rental.

 

[Toshi]

They have an XC40 R-Design on the lot but I don't want to actually buy such a wee gas-powered SUV. Whole point was the pushing the future off by 2 years bit.

NSFW

For reference, the cap cost used for the Care by Volvo lease/rental/subscription was $42k and change, iirc. With this as context, here's how an XC60 T8 (the plug-in hybrid) would stack up when optioned similarly (Momentum trim, Pilot Assist, heated seats/wheel, pano sunroof):

$59.4k MSRP as configured
Truecar says I could get about $1k off of this.
$5,002 Federal tax credit, $5k CO tax credit
Net $48k, more or less (more in reality since TTL is based off of MSRP not MSRP ex credits).

Doesn't quite feel right: I'm more excited about the XC40 than the XC60 in any powertrain. I also don't want to buy a $42k gas SUV at this point... Buying an XC60 T8 would likely be more prudent because the CO tax credit would take care of some depreciation. Leasing an XC60 T8 doesn't make any sense since Volvo is apparently not passing through the tax credits, plus 3 years feels long.

Life is tough, I tell ya, with such choices to make.



Edit: Revisiting my stop/start cruise control list here: https://plus.google.com/u/0/+ToshiClark/posts/L5PB12uP6mb .

Jeep Grand Cherokee: Too many options. As when I looked into this before, ~$48k to get a vehicle with vented seats, CarPlay, stop and go adaptive cruise (e.g. Limited, Overland at $50k with a nicer stereo). $3k cash on the hood as a current incentive if I bring my own financing. Truecar says just over $5k off is in the cards, too.

Alfa Romeo Stelvio. Dark horse. Didn't have a hitch available but now does. Not great ground clearance but no worse than other car-ish options (e.g. Acura MDX). $51.6k for a nicely equipped Stelvio Ti AWD, $54.4k for a Lusso with wood, active suspension, a few other things.

An Alfa should be no less or more reliable than my wife's FCA minivan, I suppose... They also seem to go for about $7k less than MSRP! Intriguing.

Edits, contd: The TrueCar TruePrice on actual Stelvios nearby is ~MSRP or higher. Nope!

Was a website error. AutoNation North does reflect TrueCar pricing... Might give one a try next weekend if the Volvo falls through.

Per Edmunds there's $3,250 lease cash, $1k dealer cash, plus whatever I can negotiate off. Let's assume this all adds up to a cap cost of $6.8k off of MSRP as with the purchasing scenario.

Then it looks like MF/residual for 10k/year leases run:

24 mo, 0.00001 MF, 61% residual
36 mo, 0.00021 MF, 49% residual

Plug these numbers in based off of that Stelvio Ti configuration above and we get:

24 mo lease: ~$555/mo pre-tax
36 mo lease: ~$560/mo pre-tax

Numbers elided above. Long and short of this morning's musings over a raucous rendition of Hamilton on the downstair's stereo is that a Jeep or an Alfa (!) might meet my needs, be available for a reasonable amount off of MSRP, and be available NOW.

 

[Toshi]

So I went on a few test drives on Saturday after teasing out what vehicles might work with my list of wants and be available now.


2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited

Pros:

- looks good outside
- Pentastar is muscular enough
- I actually fit in the backseat, and reasonable cargo area
- Uconnect with CarPlay

Cons:

- cramped feeling up front (big A pillars, short windshield)
- adaptive cruise control takes one to a stop then turns off, Mitsubishi-style
- floaty suspension (this was the coil based one, not the air suspension)
- have to get a pretty high-end model (Limited, Overland, or Summit) to get the features I want

Verdict: Nope. Not a $50k vehicle, IMO (although they do run $5k less in reality). The adaptive cruise control behavior is a deal-killer, and I did not care for the visibility, either.


2018 Alfa Romeo Stelvio

Pros:

- looks pretty good inside and out
- good front visibility and a nearly car-like driving position
- oontzy dealer experience in theory
- perky powertrain
- adaptive cruise behaves how I want it to, I think (traffic only slowed to a stop once, briefly, due to some freak occurrence)
- CarPlay
- runs about $7k under MSRP per TrueCar, and aggressive lease residuals and MF such that a 24 month lease would run within $5-10/mo of a 36
- 2" hitch available as of late

Cons:

- re dealer experience: AutoNation Alfa Romeo North is between a McDonald's and AutoNation Kia :lol:
- tight right knee room
- good thing there's CarPlay since the factory infotainment system is nigh useless
- narrow albeit reasonably deep cargo area
- the Sport version has the most gigantic, annoying paddle shifters that effectively block the turn signal and wiper stalks, as well as heavily bolstered seats that don't agree at all with me (but the non-Sport is fine on both counts)

Verdict: Maybe. I certainly liked it more than the Grand Cherokee but I like the Volvo more--the Volvo has a sleeker interior, would be more useful due to its shape, and has Pilot Assist.


So I'm going to end up with a Volvo for the next 24-36 months one way or another, possibly via a conventional lease.

 

[Toshi]

So I'm going to end up with a Volvo for the next 24-36 months one way or another, possibly via a conventional lease.

As with other lease math, Edmunds is the place to turn to for the details.

T5 Momentum
24/10: 0.00047 MF, 66% residual
36/10: 0.00047 MF, 64% residual

T5 R-Design
24/10: 0.00007 MF, 65% residual
36/10: 0.00007 MF, 62% residual

(might be a % or two off on individual numbers–these were strung together from quotes for different ZIPs)

The startling thing about these residuals is that they are incredibly close for 24 and 36 months. Volvo Finance is essentially telling people who want 24 month leases to fuck right off.

So how does this translate into monthly numbers?

Numbers elided, incorrect anyway as MSRP was too low and didn't include taxes and fees:

NSFW

Well, TrueCar assumes one can get nothing (actually negative!) off of MSRP given that this is a new model. Using MSRP of $43.8k for a Momentum or $44.5k for an R-Design as the cap cost:

XC40 Momentum, 24/10: $655/mo + tax
XC40 Momentum, 36/10: $472/mo + tax

XC40 R-Design, 24/10: $654/mo + tax
XC40 R-Design, 36/10: $475/mo + tax



Update, related to the above: Local dealer designated as the delivery dealership for the Care by Volvo vehicle has one XC40 R-Design in stock, the same one that I drove a few weeks ago… but that's their demo unit, not for sale. They said they'd not budge from MSRP, too. I'll explore nationally instead.

Update 2: Looks like only demos available nationally, too, at least for R-Designs with Pilot Assist. Volvo has dropped the ball on this release.

Update 3: Not actually all demos, just mostly. I reached out to a number of dealers yesterday and was able to find a couple actually available. Ended up sealing the deal with a dealer in Normal, IL. Thought about flying out there and driving it back but that's quite literally not worth my time. Shipping it shall be.

 

[Toshi]

So I haven't signed the lease paperwork yet (waiting on it from the finance guy), but I have canceled my Care by Volvo order for an XC40 T5 Momentum and put down a deposit on an in-stock XC40 T5 R-Design set up like this:

(Yes, "lava" carpets.)

I'll be having it shipped from Normal, IL, after figuring out that it'd be literally not worth my time to fly out there (connecting flight, blech) and drive it the 14 hours back over Nebraska and Kansas.

36/10 lease, 62% residual (which is very good for a 36 month lease), 0.00007 money factor. Is it any better a deal than the Care by Volvo setup? No, probably not, and it forced my hand for 36 months versus 24, but I don't think it's worse, either, plus I ended up with a nicer vehicle than the initial Momentum trim Care by Volvo order anyway. Can't wait forever for Volvo to get their shit together on that program…

 

[Nick]

36/10 lease

How much?
Those are nice

 

[Westy]

So I haven't signed the lease paperwork yet (waiting on it from the finance guy), but I have canceled my Care by Volvo order for an XC40 T5 Momentum and put down a deposit on an in-stock XC40 T5 R-Design set up like this:

(Yes, "lava" carpets.)

I'll be having it shipped from Normal, IL, after figuring out that it'd be literally not worth my time to fly out there (connecting flight, blech) and drive it the 14 hours back over Nebraska and Kansas.

36/10 lease, 62% residual (which is very good for a 36 month lease), 0.00007 money factor. Is it any better a deal than the Care by Volvo setup? No, probably not, and it forced my hand for 36 months versus 24, but I don't think it's worse, either, plus I ended up with a nicer vehicle than the initial Momentum trim Care by Volvo order anyway. Can't wait forever for Volvo to get their shit together on that program…

I want those seats

Those air vents look like modern artistic vaginas. Someone has to counter the phallic symbolism of RAM trucks. You and Adventurous could go on some romantic drives together.

 

[Toshi]

How much?
Those are nice

Short answer: $604/mo for a 0 down lease (as opposed to those advertised ones that have $3k+ down to get their headline rates).

Long answer:

Doc fee is very reasonable, IL-mandated at this level apparently. The acquisition fee, govt fees, and taxes bumped it up, not to mention that the configuration speced on this particular vehicle was more than on my $475/mo before taxes and fees estimate a post or two up.

 

[Nick]

 

[HardtailHack]

Is it made in China?

 

[Toshi]

Is it made in China?

An excellent question given the Geely ownership:

US/Canadian parts content: 1%
Belgium: 25%
Sweden: 20% (including engine)
Transmission parts: Japan
Final assembly point: Ghent, Belgium

 

[Toshi]

I could have gotten 0% for 72 months had I opted for a more run of the mill golf, but no I had to get the low supply high demand model.

Fun fact: the 0.00007 MF on the Volvo lease I should be signing for on Friday (paperwork is actually paper thus needs to await me returning to Denver, ugh) translates to 0.17% APR.

I should get a new Land Cruiser post-Volvo

36/10 lease

So now due to this Care by Volvo business falling through I'll be on the hook for 36 whole months. May 2021. That seems so far away. Student loans should be gone. I may be second-house poor via a Winter Park condo at that point.

Things desired for then in roughly descending order of importance:

- actually available April-May 2021
- AWD or 4WD
- supra-car ground clearance, perhaps 8"+ as a goal?
- enough headroom for me
- feels snazzy
- fits in garage, so likely not a high roof Sprinter 4x4 unless I decide to always park in the street or in the driveway (but maybe? )
- at least Pilot Assist/Autopilot autonomy
- ...
- PHEV or BEV if possible, and if a BEV at least 100 kW CCS quick charging capability

Details on the Tesla Model Y are understandably scarce as it's still just a rumor at this point, but that's one vehicle that might tick the boxes +/- ground clearance. The problem is that Tesla's ability to get that vehicle into production will make Volvo's Care by Volvo boondoggle seem like a well-oiled machine, I'm guessing.

So what I'm saying is that as soon as pre-ordering for the Model Y opens up (2019? This summer?) I'm aiming to be at the head of the list despite this new 3 year commitment.




Edit: self-reflection in response to "not sure if serious" reply to the above post on NASIOC:

Sprinter: probably not.

Model Y: eh, actually probably not as well.

It's probably going to have a swoopy roof, no headroom, some stupid dashboard layout, 6" of ground clearance… and I'll still sign up for a spot on the waiting list until I decide a few years later, vehicle still unshipped, that it doesn't work out for me.

Call me Nostra-****ing-damus.

 

[Toshi]

As opposed to what will probably be a half-sedan, overly swoopy Model Y, I'd realistically be happier in something in conventional SUV form factor from this list, curated by yours truly, of systems that allow for ACC with stop and go and have strong lane centering (as opposed to weak lane keep assist):

Audi: Traffic Jam Pilot (or AI Traffic Jam Assist–not entirely sure on the nomenclature)
BMW: Traffic Jam Assistance
Cadillac: Super Cruise
Mercedes: Distronic Plus with Steering Assist
Tesla: Autopilot, aka Traffic-Aware Cruise Control and Autosteer
Volvo: Pilot Assist (II)

On a technical note, most (all?) of these rely on hardware and algorithms from the same suppliers. Mobileye in particular promises good things for the future, with "late 2020" agreeing with me just fine:

Mobileye is one of the most important suppliers of ADAS technology. The Israeli company brought out its first EyeQ system-on-chip back in 2004, and on May 17[, 2016] it just announced details of the fifth generation, which should start showing up in late 2020. EyeQ5 will allow a higher level of autonomous driving (NHTSA Level 3) and, therefore, has been designed to cope with high-bandwidth sensor fusion of up to 40Gbps, fed from a combination of optical cameras, radar, and lidar sensors.

But the devil's in the details. As Ars notes:

[A]s good as some ADAS implementations are, they remain works in progress. For example, we've been able to detect a significant improvement in Audi's Lane Assist between older models like the A7 or A8 compared to the new A4. In the newer car, it keeps you well-centered in your lane; older models (and Volvo's XC90) aren't quite as steady and will constantly correct your course from one side of the lane to the other.

So I'll have to do a bunch more test driving yet in upcoming years because no one's got time for a poorly performing system… and will probably sign up for another lease at that point given that the technology very much seems to be in flux.

:derp:

 

[Toshi]

This would be great for tailgating after a day of biking or skiing.

Why didn’t I think of lifting our old Prius?!

Electrify America releases its plan of CCS/CHAdeMO DC quick charging stations. Locations are at pins below the lightning bolt flags—note course of I-70 in Colorado, for instance. This isn’t surprising but is good to confirm. As a refresher, Electrify America is VW’s Dieselgate-atonement outfit.

 

[Toshi]

REI Denver is confirmed to not have any full face helmets that fit me. Bell S would work for Mariko in a few years, though.

 

[Westy]

This would be great for tailgating after a day of biking or skiing.

This is the favorite feature of my old Volvo. Bing maps vehicle caught me illegally drinking a beer post ride on a hot fucking day. My buddy with the ancient Lexus/Land Rover variant, normally a talented rider, was a talent-less hack that day on some easy XC trails. He was diagnosed with Parkinson's a few weeks later.

https://binged.it/2jUPo63

 

[Toshi]

That's brave to admit you've ever used Bing Maps

 

[Westy]

That's brave to admit you've ever used Bing Maps

Only because I saw the Bing maps car drive by.

 

[Toshi]

Yasss

(that's the delayed lease paperwork for the Volvo at the Normal, IL dealer)

((paperwork now signed and FedExed back to dealer. It'll be there tomorrow morning and then I wait on Volvo Finance to send funds to the dealer. So early next week? I may end up flying out there myself on Tuesday and driving back Tuesday/Wednesday if the timeline works out to allow for that.)

 

[Westy]

Yasss

(that's the delayed lease paperwork for the Volvo at the Normal, IL dealer)

((paperwork now signed and FedExed back to dealer. It'll be there tomorrow morning and then I wait on Volvo Finance to send funds to the dealer. So early next week? I may end up flying out there myself on Tuesday and driving back Tuesday/Wednesday if the timeline works out to allow for that.)

Flying to pick up a car?

 

[Toshi]

Flying to pick up a car?

From my prior experiences shipping autos the brokers can't be trusted at all. I randomly have some non-working days (professional time for CME at home, not vacation, per se) next week where I could fly out and pick it up on my own, known timeline.

 

[Toshi]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/the-surprising-return-of-the-repo-man/2018/05/15/26fcd30e-4d5a-11e8-af46-b1d6dc0d9bfe_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.624b00b40970

The modern repo man, armed with plate scanners galore:

Worth the read. The implications of the scanned plate data being used to correlate other activity patterns, especially since they are owned by one company and resold thereafter, are especially interesting.

 

[Toshi]

So picking up the car may prove to be an adventure in and of itself.

Sometime between yesterday and today fares went up a ton for DEN-BMI (Bloomington, nearest airport to Normal). As a hedge against shipping not working out I just booked myself a cheap one-way leg DEN-ORD for next Tuesday, on Spirit (!). Given that I can easily pack in a backpack it actually was perfect for me, and if I don't use the flight I won't cry about the <$100 I spent (including a seat upgrade!).

But then how to get to Normal from Chicago? Uber would be $150-200, Enterprise has no one way rental availability that day, but there is a bus from the O'Hare Bus/Shuttle Center to downtown Bloomington. (After that I could bus and walk or take a cheap Uber easily.) Done: I'll have 61 minutes from scheduled touchdown to catching my bus, which should be fine given no baggage and no kids in tow!

 

[6thElement]

So picking up the car may prove to be an adventure in and of itself.

Sometime between yesterday and today fares went up a ton for DEN-BMI (Bloomington, nearest airport to Normal). As a hedge against shipping not working out I just booked myself a cheap one-way leg DEN-ORD for next Tuesday, on Spirit (!). Given that I can easily pack in a backpack it actually was perfect for me, and if I don't use the flight I won't cry about the <$100 I spent (including a seat upgrade!).

But then how to get to Normal from Chicago? Uber would be $150-200, Enterprise has no one way rental availability that day, but there is a bus from the O'Hare Bus/Shuttle Center to downtown Bloomington. (After that I could bus and walk or take a cheap Uber easily.) Done: I'll have 61 minutes from scheduled touchdown to catching my bus, which should be fine given no baggage and no kids in tow!

Things like that are a fun adventure.

 

[Toshi]

Things like that are a fun adventure.

I just hope that Volvo Finance gets their shit together in time and pays the dealership for the car. Until that happens they can't release it to me, understandable as no one has paid them for it. I'll be following up with them on Monday night to determine whether I venture off into central Illinois or not.

Related amusement: The sales guy I was working with as recently as Monday night no longer works for them as of Wednesday.

 

[SkaredShtles]

<snip>
Related amusement: The sales guy I was working with as recently as Monday night no longer works for them as of Wednesday.

That should... complicate things.

 

[Toshi]

That should... complicate things.

The deal was already crafted and laid down in writing. It was nothing remarkable, cap cost at MSRP (so no discounts) and the best published Volvo Finance terms for the MF and residual (so no padding their bottom line at my expense). Run of the mill good-credit deal, so this guy's departure shouldn't rock that boat.

It's all about the timeline instead since the only period next week I can break away for this mini road trip is Tuesday/Wednesday mainly due to my wife's rehearsal and concert schedule.

 

[SkaredShtles]

The deal was already crafted and laid down in writing. It was nothing remarkable, cap cost at MSRP (so no discounts) and the best published Volvo Finance terms for the MF and residual (so no padding their bottom line at my expense). Run of the mill good-credit deal, so this guy's departure shouldn't rock that boat.

I appreciate your optimism!

 

[Toshi]

I appreciate your optimism!

From this morning:

>>>>>

Hi Toshi,

I spoke with [no longer employed sales guy] this morning. I 'm working with [elided] our Finance manager to ensure you will be able to take delivery of your XC40 this upcoming Tuesday. Feel free to reach me via e-mail or on my cell [elided] with any questions or concerns.

Best Regards,

[new sales guy]

<<<<<

Why the fuck can't they just say "we put your application into the system, Volvo Financial approved you, and you're good to go whether you show up now or on Tuesday"?

But no, it's "I'm working[...] to ensure you will be able to take delivery[...] this upcoming Tuesday." What does that mean?!

For fame and fortune I'll be flying to Chicago on Tuesday, I guess...

 

[SkaredShtles]

<snip>

But no, it's "I'm working[...] to ensure you will be able to take delivery[...] this upcoming Tuesday." What does that mean?!

It means it's gon' be a trainwreck when you arrive to get your car.

 

[rideit]

Road Trip!

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurants-g36455-Normal_Bloomington_Normal_Illinois.html

 

[Toshi]

It means it's gon' be a trainwreck when you arrive to get your car.

"That XC40 you were looking at is unavailable. We do have a beautiful used Chevy Cavalier that may interest you, though..."

 

[Toshi]

I called the sales guy who sent that email and the story is not reassuring. It involves sending paperwork up north (Chicago?) to their main dealer office where it gets approved, then overnighted to Volvo, eventually getting there on Tuesday morning.

I have my doubts about this.

So in the worst case they don't have their shit together. I could potentially get back in time even if this all falls apart--need to be here by about 7:30 PM on Wednesday as the wife has a dress rehearsal.

6 AM bus from Bloomington to O'Hare
$209 + seat assignment flight on Spirit back to Denver in plenty of time.

That part doesn't sound like a fun road trip, but I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place here given how shitty auto shipping companies are... this coming from the guy who just had to have something not locally available because that'd be far too easy.

 

[SkaredShtles]

You do seem to like to have things difficult...

 

[Toshi]

You do seem to like to have things difficult...

I had no idea leasing an in-stock Volvo would be so difficult. How do these dealers survive?

Ah yes, protection from local laws.

I wonder if I could secure the car by authorizing a charge for its total balance on my credit card while Volvo figures the details out... I couldn't quite charge two of them given that I haven't paid last month's bill yet (I float it until the last day because why not?) but one would be just fine.

 

[Nick]

that Volvo page to build your new grocery getter sucks balls.
I built one with all the specs I'd like, and got a summary WITH NO PRICE.

 

[Toshi]

that Volvo page to build your new grocery getter sucks balls.
I built one with all the specs I'd like, and got a summary WITH NO PRICE.