[saruti]

hi all
I love my sunday
I got a Turner DHR DW 3 years a go and got back to the sunday after a year on the DHR.
but, after riding my friend DHR last weekend back to back with my sunday, I feel like the DHR feel more ... how can I explain it?...
well the sunday feels like it has less then 8 inch of travel. the DHR feel more deep. same shock on both bikes. RC4 DW tune. (my sunday use the RC4 that was on the DHR that I owned.)
do you have the same feel on your sunday? like it uses all travel at once? no middle support? just small bumps and boom all travel when hit a big bump?
the DHR feels like it uses the 8 inch of travel more controlled.
I weight 70kg use a titanium spring #350 with 110PSI in the air chamber. the bottom out is all out. (maybe I need to try some bottom out ?)

thanks

 

[Udi]

The two bikes have very different leverage curves. The ideal shock setup for those bikes is therefore also very different. I have discussed both in detail in past posts, including the finer details of tuning shocks for the dual-progressive curve on the DHR. In short, if you put the same shock in both bikes, they will feel entirely different.

The DHR has sharper initial progression than the Sunday, a more pronounced flat mid-section, and a sharp end of stroke secondary progression (which the Sunday doesn't have at all - it's almost dead flat there).

I'd try BO fully closed and pressure set to 125-130psi. You didn't mention which RC4 (shaft), dw tune means nothing really. The small shaft works better with the Sunday and the fat shaft (with a very specific setup) works better with the dw-DHR.

 

[saruti]

thanks Udi
I'll try this setup.
the RC4 came with my DHR 2011. what is the diameter of the shaft that you say is better for the sunday?

thanks again.

 

[Flo33]

thanks Udi
I'll try this setup.
the RC4 came with my DHR 2011. what is the diameter of the shaft that you say is better for the sunday?

thanks again.

The small shaft works better with the Sunday and the fat shaft (with a very specific setup) works better with the dw-DHR.

Small shaft is 1/2" = 12,7 mm
Fat shaft is 5/8" = 15,875 mm

 

[saruti]

hi guys
I'm building a new frame now. (my old one is a 16. the new is 17)
I want to have the head angle 62.
can I use 2 -1.5 CaneCreek headsets? to have -3 degree?

thanks

 

[Gary]

I'd probably just go -2deg to avoid using that awful over-complicated CaneCREAK headset.
My ol' Sunday has -2 superstar cups and IIRC sits at 62 deg or so. It's slacker than stock as I like to run a smaller (2.35) rear tyre which in turn gives a further half a degree or so and run my boxxer top crown as slammed as possible on the steerer with the stanchions dropped through as far as possible. I also run a very stiff fork meaning it sags way more out back than up front and rarely reaches the last 20mm of travel so in use rides even slacker.

I'm 185lb and running a 375lb spring so probably gives a similarly sagged rear end to you.

 

[Jorge]

I have two options of buying a rc4 kashima, to replace my dhx3. Both at the same price. One is 2015 with use and another 2013 with little use ..... weight 90kg (198lb) .'... Which do you recommend?

 

[saruti]

check the diameter of the shaft. as Udi said. the smaller is better.

 

[bengxe]

2013 is the fat shaft, 2015 is the smaller shaft

 

[saruti]

but........ you also need the RC4 to be tuned for the DW link.......

 

[Jorge]

2013 is the fat shaft, 2015 is the smaller shaft

Ok

 

[Sandwich]

hi guys
I'm building a new frame now. (my old one is a 16. the new is 17)
I want to have the head angle 62.
can I use 2 -1.5 CaneCreek headsets? to have -3 degree?

thanks

I've done this for a year of hard riding. It worked fine. The newer cane creek headsets don't creak as much. Mine didn't at all. They changed the cups ever so slightly.

You may also consider raising the fork in its crowns to also raise the BB, if you care. Then you could do a -2* cup, raise the crowns 20mm, and get your 62*.

 

[szacsi72]

Guys is the WC edition fat shaft or small shaft? Also the Kashima is small right?

 

[bengxe]

I believe the wc edition was only the first year or 2 of the rc4, so it would be the fat shaft. Kashima was available on both shaft diameters.

 

[Jm_]

I have two options of buying a rc4 kashima, to replace my dhx3. Both at the same price. One is 2015 with use and another 2013 with little use ..... weight 90kg (198lb) .'... Which do you recommend?

The later the better, according to Craig, Fox gutted the boost valve sometime after they switched to the small shaft. The boost valve makes it spike, if you are in to that kind of thing.

 

[Jorge]

In the end e bought the small axis 2015, it is necessary to modify the link ((can you still buy somewhere?)) .. I do not understand the impulse valve, but when I take it for review I will let the mechanic know .. .. will test analysis ..

 

[bengxe]

The later the better, according to Craig, Fox gutted the boost valve sometime after they switched to the small shaft. The boost valve makes it spike, if you are in to that kind of thing.

Same time. Boost valve = fat shaft, no boost valve = small shaft.

 

[Jorge]

Rc4 2015 tested in the sunday .. Only 4 drops down my favorite track ... Very good sensitivity lsc 2 clips from open, fits perfect to the ground .... and stability, good hsc 8 clips from open, it does not go down In the pedals and in fast zone goes very fastens the back and .... resistance to make stop ..... it was not exactly what I was looking for. Air assist closed to top and 200psi with 450lbs spring and 93kg pilot equipped weight. Need to try more and in different terrains and with the hsc to 9,10,11,12 clips and slimming 10kg the pilot ...... The bike has improved a lot, it seems another with the angleset -2 ° and the rc4 and kit Protone air for boxxer.

 

[hitar_potar]

Been on a -2 angleset and really liked it. Didn't know the exact real headtube angle cause i ride my Dorado Pro all the way up. But 2 years ago i went to -3 angleset, same fork, same setup all the way up, and it's been marvelous ever since. My guess was i'm realistically at 62 HA, but other people argue with me i'm between 61 and 62 because of the Dorado.

 

[szacsi72]

Hitar, take a percet angle photo of it and let photoshop do the work

 

[hitar_potar]

Hard work trying to make a perfect pic of it - tryed it before and couldn't make it happen as good as needed. No idea how to use photoshop as well. It ain't that important - i find it more important just to feel good on the bike and have fun.

 

[AndySTi]

Freshly built for 2017. 650B in the front with a -1 degree offset cup for extra WB. Rear shock is a 2015 small shaft RC4 - the small shaft RC4 is much better in this frame compared to the 2013 RC4 that it replaced.

 

[The Remery]

Great thread, people. Thanks heaps for the info. After hours of reading, I've only made a tiny scratch in the volume of info.
I've retired from masters road racing and decided to go to MTB as the upright position doesn't close the hip angle up much and a decent MTB park opened up 5 mins ride from home (Bonus!!).
To deal with the big bumpy trails, I've mothballed my little trek fuel and grabbed an old Sunday for next to nothing.
I've given it a full strip down and a bit of "tarting up" to make it look decent. I can't find any cracks so I think she's all go.
It's running basic Funn Hooka DH cranks and RF Diabolous gear and I've put some old 10speed shifters and rear mech on from the fuel (I upgraded it after a few weeks so the 10 speed stuff is basically new).
I have new pads and rotors on the way for the Hayes Mag brakes and just left the Marzocchi 888s RC and the fox DHX 5.0 on it.
Cosmetic finishing yet to be completed. (I'm doing a Green and white scheme)
I'm absolutely NOT worried about weight (odd for a past weight weenie) as the park has chairlifts which are good for this old guy.
Should be good enough for "just fun" at the park and waaaaay more stable than my other bikes.
I had tentatively identified it as a Taiwanese built 2006 based on the red DW link and the Monster green paint. Can people confirm this and warn me of any "must get rid of that" parts? (nope....that does NOT include the green and white scheme if you hate it)
Cheers.
The Remery(NZ)

 

[The Remery]

 

[Flo33]

I have nothing useful to contribute, but I spot a GTO. Two nice toys are even better than one.

 

[Sandwich]

I don't think there's anything wrong with your build. In fact, I think the 888 RC is one of the better 888s you can buy, and I believe it's pretty much bombproof if not the highest performer. Make sure you have proper weight springs in the fork and shock, as these can make a world of difference no matter the bike you are on.

I believe the DHX/sunday isn't a bad combo. There are settings around here somewhere, but I believe it's minimal volume in the resi (crank the blue barrel down) and 150psi, or thereabouts in the chamber. Make sure the pressure is good before riding, I made that mistake multiple times (oops). Check it every ride.

Otherwise I think a direct mount stem would be a good upgrade, and those mags can be hit or miss (ultra durable but not much power). Otherwise, just ride it!

 

[Jm_]

I have nothing useful to contribute, but I spot a GTO. Two nice toys are even better than one.

Where, next to the 3000GT?

 

[Sandwich]

Where, next to the 3000GT?

the 3000gt is referred to as GTO elsewhere in the world.

 

[Jm_]

the 3000gt is referred to as GTO elsewhere in the world.

You mean like the Iraqs?

 

[Flo33]

You mean like the Iraqs?

No, like in it's country of origin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_GTO

 

[The Remery]

Thanks, people
ah...the GTO (IN NZ they are GTOs...US=3000GT and they'd call this one the VR4...we call them twin turbos). The old girl is my baby. She's done a very genuine 94,000km and except for a few added power mods is all standard. Few may be a bit of an understatement as she has 400+HP at the wheels. I searched for her for 3 years. It's pretty tidy and most amazingly all the cool toys still work (active aero, anti squat anti dive, 4 wheel drive and 4 wheels steer electronically controlled suspension blah blah blah). I don't like the excessive wheel arch gap so will work on subtly reducing that but retaining the awesome suspension set up (a tricky job). I've had her 3-4 years now and it's a kinda unheard of "she never breaks down" (due to the low K's...hence the long search).
I've almost finished the Sunday. I have the final bearings for the frame and just need to install.
She now looks like the following pics

 

[The Remery]

I meant to say:
-Yep re the direct mount stem.
-I may remove the front set of Bomber stickers (I think I over decorated the cake, so to speak...it looked mint with the ironHorse reverse scheme green on white fork but a bit "busy and crowded " with the bomber stickers facing forward)
...and thanks heaps for the suspension setting advice...I'm as clueless as a typical roady normally is

 

[Muddy]

Looking over your Sunday you have alot of excess height at your controls. Since you mentioned being a road rider also, I am sure you are aware the reference made to 90deg. shoulder angle.
If this is a new-to-you bike don't assume is it well sorted as it stands; try to achieve a coupled feeling with the front and rear suspension - with you positioned over the crankset. The foundation for that is body position primarily.
As things appear, previous owner liked an easily lofted front end for manual, pre-manual etc. Looks as though you can tame a light but sketchy front end.

 

[The Remery]

Looking over your Sunday you have alot of excess height at your controls. Since you mentioned being a road rider also, I am sure you are aware the reference made to 90deg. shoulder angle.
If this is a new-to-you bike don't assume is it well sorted as it stands; try to achieve a coupled feeling with the front and rear suspension - with you positioned over the crankset. The foundation for that is body position primarily.
As things appear, previous owner liked an easily lofted front end for manual, pre-manual etc. Looks as though you can tame a light but sketchy front end.

Thankyou. I'm very interested in set-up advice.
Cheers

 

[mrgto]

Real GTO.

 

[Sandwich]

as a roadie, you should know....SLAM THAT STEM

 

[Flo33]

Real GTO.
View attachment 124982

Real, real GTO.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_250_GTO

 

[Gary]

Thankyou. I'm very interested in set-up advice.
Cheers

While you're changing the front end height. switch that top crown for a properly flat one and raise the stanchions through both crowns.
Those old 888s had stupidly long stanchions and from your pic yours are dropped right through the crowns and have raised the front end so far it looks to have pretty much ruined the nice handling low BB traits the Sunday was famed for.
for ref: Most of us were running 13.4-13.9" BB heights on our Sundays

 

[The Remery]

Real GTO.
View attachment 124982

....and that is why they were marketed as 3000GT in the states

 

[The Remery]

as a roadie, you should know....SLAM THAT STEM

re slamming the stem...I can't. Too many years of riding slammed has had the femur hitting the hip cartilage...so the femur protected itself by growing boney cysts on top...now the cysts lift the cartilage if I even bend over a bit and close the hip angle down. This is why I stopped road racing. I can't even reach the bars any more.
This explains why a fast roady with negligible MTB skills has gone to mtb ...the sitting upright position gives relatively little pain (plus downhill is fun). I just hope they get the MTB park fixed over winter (massive fire wiped it out).