[Keen Bean]

Hi guys, I've had a medium for 2 years and love it! Had my best ever race results on it after 'downgrading' from a new demo

Need to change to a large as the length is an issue swapping onto my trail bike.

Is the head tube the same length on large and medium? Page 1 suggests so but sounds strange :/ my steerer is on the limit so if it is bigger it's new fork time

 

[Keen Bean]

Also I had similar thoughts of cutting the brace off and welding a smaller on on to look more like the med as it's just so damn ugly!!!!

Did anyone do it in the end?

 

[Kurzbach]

Since I'm finally about to start building a Sunday after wanting to for at least 10 years, I think it's about time I joined this thread! Hi guys!

 

[hitar_potar]

Hi to you as well. Kinda late to the party, but better late than never! What build is in your mind?

 

[Kurzbach]

Only finally able to get a frame now, so yup, definitely better late than never.
It's a 2010 World Cup frame. In mind I have the Holy Grail shock coupled with a Boxxer WC up front. Wheelset I'm not sure about yet. Code brakes, Renthal Bar and Stem. The rest will come over time. It's a nice little winter project for me.

What I also wanted to ask if someone knows where to get a lower shock pin for that frame? It seems to be missing and I haven't the faintest idea where to get one.

 

[hitar_potar]

Sounds like a good build plan.
The Holy Grail shock is a curious option, but if tuned to the Sunday, might be a worthy combination - haven't heard a bad word about it. For the drivetrain - why not just go for the classic Zee combo? Strong, good and cheap!
There was an online shop in the UK that was still selling Sunday parts, can't rememberr the name. Check the previous pages on this thread.

 

[Kurzbach]

The Holy Grail is completely new to me as well, but same as you, I've never heard a bad thing about it I'm still debating with myself on the drive train, part of me wants a GX DH groupset, but obviously the proven reliability of Shimano does make it a big plus
I know pearce cycles had some components ages ago, but yesterday when I checked, that part was unavailable might have to resort to technical drawings and custom fabrication.

 

[saruti]

Holy Grail shock? what are you talking about?....

 

[Kurzbach]

http://www.fast-suspension.co.uk/Holy-Grail.html

 

[hitar_potar]

Yep, Pearce cycles it was.
I've got a man working with cnc machines and stuff - he once saw this lower shock pin and said it would be easy enough to make a copy of it, if i ever need it. He's the man i'm using for spare shock hardware - his work's quite fine for me. I though about making him work his magic on such a pin for a spare part, but i don't see the point now as i'm selling my Sunday frame.

 

[szacsi72]

Hey folks! Just installed an NOS BoXXeR Keronite, so the mighty horse can be ridden again! It will be good to be back on the bike after.. uhh.. 1.5-2 years? Man I miss riding, even doe im a noob. So here are a couple of pics, thought you guys would appriciate a good horse as always.

Need to cut brake lines, adjust the suspension, and finish polishing the right side crank and the shock adjusters...
White grips, new bars (managed to twist this one at the nationals two years ago), silver headset spacer, new -2 headset instead of the -1.5 im running right now and a chain guide w/ taco are the next things to be purchased... Then its gonna probably stay like this for some time, later ill probably build a black-out horsey or a black+anodised bits version

Heres my pb album, will upload more pics and progress there probably, ill only post on this thread if i do something important!
https://www.pinkbike.com/u/szacsi72/album/Ironhorse-Sunday-WC-reborn/

Cheers
Dave, your fellow Ironhorse enthusiast

 

[szacsi72]

Only finally able to get a frame now, so yup, definitely better late than never.
It's a 2010 World Cup frame. In mind I have the Holy Grail shock coupled with a Boxxer WC up front. Wheelset I'm not sure about yet. Code brakes, Renthal Bar and Stem. The rest will come over time. It's a nice little winter project for me.

What I also wanted to ask if someone knows where to get a lower shock pin for that frame? It seems to be missing and I haven't the faintest idea where to get one.

If you go Fast suspension in the back you might as well buy a fork from Fast!
Their 1.1 costs 1300 euros (German retailer), and features their CO3 open-bath cart, and low-friction stanchions, that dont fade out so fast like the RS ones. I believe they also did something to the air side...
Non the less I think that you couldnt get any better performance as theyd be able to fine-tune the shock and the fork both to you, and to themselves to be in perfect harmony.

Best of wishes for your build mate!

 

[Jorge]

IHi . After testing Rc4, Rc4 2015 and bos stoy st2 (the bos is the best at the moment) I use 550lbs dock, I still have many bump problems in the jumps. Someone has tried the cane creek air with small camera. Would you solve something with the air cushion? .. for the purpose of the bumpers I have in mind change bike

 

[Mo(n)arch]

Some guy from Germany built a Sunday replica to modern geometry standards and 27,5" wheels.
The whole frame is hand built.
This thing is absolutely insane.

 

[Flo33]

Some guy from Germany built a Sunday replica to modern geometry standards and 27,5" wheels.
The whole frame is hand built.
This thing is absolutely insane.

Do you have a link to the original thread at mtb-news.de?

Edit: found it, https://fotos.mtb-news.de/u/photos/149540

 

[Gary]

Wow!
how pointless?

#notHatinjustSayin

 

[Sandwich]

glad you said it not me. That's a lot of love for the sunday, a bike that has largely been eclipsed by modern DH frames. Not saying it wasn't great in 2006, but hey.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

Well, it's about the love I guess.

I for one, still love the silhoutte of that bike. There's nothing like it anymore. No hydroforming, etc.
Would be interesting how this one would hold up against modern day bikes as it has up to date geometry and sizing.

 

[Gary]

What are you even talking about?
a 2008 Sunday does still "hold up" just fine against *sigh* modern geometry.

You honestly believe sticking 1.5" larger diameter wheels on bikes improved them?

m'kay

 

[Udi]

I wouldn't have bothered "correcting" the Sunday either, but that's a very dedicated project and I respect the effort!
Very cool and nicely done.

What are you even talking about?
a 2008 Sunday does still "hold up" just fine against *sigh* modern geometry.
You honestly believe sticking 1.5" larger diameter wheels on bikes improved them?

Hugely improved them.
I took the time to try both wheel sizes back to back on the exact same frame while resetting geometry to keep all other factors consistent (or as consistent as possible) before making the switch. Tested over a mixture of bikepark runs (not a single track, not just a few runs, not just a few days - extended periods of time on both setups back to back). I don't think anyone else here has done that except buckoW.

I have nothing to sell, so the experiment was purely for me to decide which was better and which I'd keep running. My conclusion was that 650b made most riding less painful and more enjoyable, on top of being flat out faster.

With that said, I also like rubber compounds that grip, so my opinion may be worthless.

 

[mykel]

@Udi

I have put a 27.5 front wheel on my big bike after my last 26"one sent me out the front door for taco's.
I noticed a nice big difference, especially when it came to chunder, allowing me to carry more speed and in places where I used to slow, now maintain speed. With the brain issues, this is a huge asset to me to smooth things out when on rougher trails.

The question now is - how much more of a difference would going to 27.5 F&R make over my current bi-polar setup? Thoughts?

 

[Udi]

@mykel

Good question, my experience was that the 27.5 made a much bigger improvement on the front than the rear. I tried it on the front alone before trying it both ends. I really liked that combination, and my only minor complaint was there was a small F/R traction difference at the limit (in favour of the front). Obviously it's hard to correct the BB height unless you have a frame that's specifically designed to use both wheel sizes (even if there is enough clearance) and I do think geometry is first priority.

With that said, I think the difference at the front may be more perceivable to humans (because hands/arms are weaker than legs), whereas when it comes to actual force transfer to the body (and in your case brain), the rear probably has as much if not potentially more influence.

If bump forces are restricting what you can ride (and budget allows), I think you'd appreciate 27.5 both ends. Beyond that, I also don't think it's crazy to consider the option of 29F / 27.5R, and as a sidenote it's worth noting that regular 27.5 Fox40 lowers will fit a 29 wheel also. Obviously you do take a hit in tighter corners as wheel sizes go up, but as I'm sure you noticed, you get used to that pretty quickly while the other benefits remain. This may not be useful for now, but it's probably good to keep in mind for the future (if the mind is still willing but the body not quite).

By the same token, I think your current setup is pretty good, and my experience was identical to yours.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

What are you even talking about?
a 2008 Sunday does still "hold up" just fine against *sigh* modern geometry.

You honestly believe sticking 1.5" larger diameter wheels on bikes improved them?

m'kay

I didn‘t mean lizard wheels but a frame size that is not made for midgets (190cm myself, so I know a thing or two about too small DH-frames), aswell as a headangle that got corrected about 1,5-2degrees from pretty much every owner.
Regarding 650b, see Udi‘s posts.

 

[Jorge]

the rear swingarm of 2006 is compatible with 2009? ... I have in mind to try to pass to 650v

 

[Gary]

my opinion may be worthless.

Not so much worthless Udi. More irrelivent. To me at least anyway. (still interesting though)
No. You're not the only one here to have extensively "tested" 27.5 vs 26 back to back. Your reasons were just different from mine. Just as my findings were different from yours. but no less conclusive.
Firstly I don't ever suffer from pain on 26. Maybe because I often ride DH/Enduro trails on a 100mm DJ hardtail with very stiff fork and high tyre pressures. Maybe just because i'm not a whinger. Either way I have no need to search for an improvement in respect of comfort.
Secondly I don't ever complain about lack of traction. I just (try to) ride to the limit of traction I have available at any time. (as do you if you think about it).
And thirdly I have no need to know which size wheel is faster. I don't race (or even STRAVA). So timing has zero influence on my enjoyment of riding a bicycle.
Anyway. As I was saying. I have also spent many many hours riding 27.5 and 26 back to back, same frames swapping wheelsizes, same models in different wheel sizes, and many many bikes with different sizes. I actually can't help comparing every bike I ever ride. And I ride a lot of bikes. I am also in the strange situation of actually having to ride a 27.5 bike a good few hours per week (teaching/coaching/guiding for work) so very very used to riding that size wheels.
My conclusion based on nothing more than my own experience of riding both is that I simply don't like 27.5.
In particular I prefer how a 26" front wheel feels when changing direction.
And for me. a bike I don't like the fundamental handling of just doesn't feel like an improvement. Even if it is faster, more comfortable or both.

It's interesting you mention to Mykel the benefits of 27.5 being more noticable on the front and credit that to human's having weaker arms.
I'm a massively rear wheel biased rider from riding/weighting/steering from my rear wheel far more often than most. A habit formed from all those years riding a stiff short travel hardtail fork and manualling everything so rarely get fatigue in my arms/core before my legs.

"He who wonders discovers that this in itself is wonder" - M.C. Escher

 

[sundaydoug]

someone buy this https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2266658/

 

[toodles]

Firstly I don't ever suffer from pain on 26. Maybe because I often ride DH/Enduro trails on a 100mm DJ hardtail with very stiff fork and high tyre pressures. Maybe just because i'm not a whinger. Either way I have no need to search for an improvement in respect of comfort.

Poppycock! The use of "shock absorbers" is fine for ladies with dainty wrists, but a real gentleman requires neither those infernal instruments nor the pneumatic devilry of Mr Dunlop! A solid wooden rim is more than adequate when the limits of traction are respected and the use of materials other than wood, iron and leather should be regulated by those imbeciles in Paris.

Whilst I do not use Strava, I find that once the ladie's kerchief hits the ground signalling the start of the bicycle tournament, I easily out-manoveur those other chaps on my velocipede!

 

[Gary]

Behold...

alumininiuminum (the new wood)

 

[slimshady]

Full story on zee German who built the 650b replica:

https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/The-Sunday-Shreds-Again-A-Legend-Reborn,2240

That thing is a beauty...

 

[Gary]

The original looks nicer.

Anyone know the reach numbers for OG Sundays?

 

[bengxe]

My large was around 420. That was the main reason I sold it, it always felt cramped coming from my trail bike.

 

[szacsi72]

I'm late, as always. Do you think he would make another one and sell it to me? I'd sell one of my kidneys. Lol. MY current one would be converted to park riding and I'd build that as a race(ish) bike.

I've been dreaming so much about this. Imagine the Demo fanbois with their 2018 ultrasupercarbon (no offense) as an "old" ironhorse just shreds by. A car guy would call it a "sleeper".

 

[chris_f]

He specifically says at the end of the article that they're not making any for sale.

 

[Gary]

Imagine the Demo fanbois with their 2018 ultrasupercarbon (no offense) as an "old" ironhorse just shreds by.

WTF are you on about?

An old 26" Sunday didn't suddenly become unridabru the day bigger wheels, carbon frames, or longer top tubes became fashionable. They'll still go pretty fast if you're a decent rider.

 

[sundaydoug]

Every time I read something about the Sunday being obsolete I go searching for this fine display of bike wizardry. Granted it was 10 years ago, but unless you're racing at a super-high level the Sunday would still be A-OK

 

[saruti]

if I could go back in time.... but, Sam would probably wouldn't listen....

 

[szacsi72]

WTF are you on about?

An old 26" Sunday didn't suddenly become unridabru the day bigger wheels, carbon frames, or longer top tubes became fashionable. They'll still go pretty fast if you're a decent rider.

I literally said the opposite of that...

 

[HardtailHack]

I literally said the opposite of that...

Good, I thought I was missing something because I didn't know what Gary was on about.

 

[Gary]

Sounded to me more like he meant cruising by on a German modernized 650b Sunday.

There's literally no need. if you're fast. You'll still be fast on a 2008 Sunday with normal sized DH wheels and 2 whole degree steeper HA. infact you still see plenty folk on up to date carbon DH bikes you could cruise by on a 20yr old hardtail if that's your main aim in life.

 

[HardtailHack]

BETD still linkage plates in stock, not sure if they can make up any other bits?

https://www.mountainbikecomponents.co.uk/components/suspension-modifications/kona-stinky-98-to-00

Not sure why the URL says kona stinky.