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The Official Iron Horse Sunday / DW-Link Tech. & Tuning Section

G

General Lee

Turbo Monkey
Oct 16, 2003
2,860
0
The 802
Orfen said:
isn't that a lot of compression damping? I thought the Sunday dw*link was optimised to require very little to no compression damping?

also doesn't the Sunday work better with faster reebound setting?
Click to expand...
it's all relative. sure the sunday requires less damping than what might be found in a standard oem shock so it is initially valved with less, thus giving you the option to actually use the entire range of adjustment. In other words the custom vivid on the sunday should feel almost the same as a standard vivid on, say, a moorewood; the sunday needs a lighter damped shock to feel like most other bikes on the market because of the lower leverage ratio. i'm running a lot of lsc on a shock that is already set up with 30% less lsc than a standard vivid.

a lot has to do with riding style too, if i was going down the trail at sport racer/expert speeds i might run a lot less lsc but i'm going quite a bit faster than that. no doubt guys like hill and fairclough run even more than me since they are way faster and hit corners a lot harder.

and a plush bike isn't always a fast bike
 
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Lassonde

Lassonde

Chimp
Sep 29, 2007
8
0
I receveid my Iron Horse Sunday Team during the month of April and I ride it since May. I tuned the bike after every ride and the bike has always been tight. Yesterday I went to Bromont, at the beginning of the day the bike was tight like always. I cleaned it when I was back home at the end of the day and I saw that the swing arm was very slack. I tryied to tight everything but nothing to do. Then today I parted it out and I saw that the bearings were dead. But, the plate ( the low part of the linkage that we can change to fit an other shock ... I really don't know the real word for it ahha ) is eat now. So I would have to change the bearings and the plate. I know that it's normal to change the bearings sometimes but it all happened during one ride ?!?! What to do now ? I know that I'll have to pay for the bearings, but is the linkage warranty for that thing ?

Thanks and sorry for bad english
 
Lassonde

Lassonde

Chimp
Sep 29, 2007
8
0
tomyum said:
Ok, I've had my 08 sunday world cup for 18 days now, very pleased with it until now.
I've noticed that there is already play in the lower linkage directly connecting to the rear triangle. I originally thought it needed a tighten up, but on closer inspection the pin has been moving in the linkage and has now worn with the linkage and now theres play between the two. So when it's all together and there isn't any play in the bearings and it's all nice and tight the pin is banging around in the linkage.
It seems rediculous that this has happened, the bearings should be the only thing moving down there.
Many people having this same problem? Will I have to be sending it back for warrenty? Will it matter if it's not the same ironhorse dealer I take it back to? Is there something else I can do, how do I stop it happening again?
Thanks, Tom
Click to expand...

Same thing happened to me and one of my friend. I just read your post ... I posted my problem the minute before :banghead:
 
T

tomyum

Chimp
Jun 20, 2008
8
0
CarlE said:
There was no play when the bike was new, correct? It's going to be tough to diagnose over the net as it could be anything from a defective bearing (could be the extended race being too short) to a poorly machined lower link (not likely but if you've been in the industry long enough then you learn anythings possible. I would bring it into a dealer, doesn't even have to be an Iron Horse dealer we'll work with anyone that's willing to work with us, and have them inspect it and give us a call.

-Carl
Click to expand...
Lassonde: If you have the same problem checkout the above...
I have stripped it down and done some measuring up and as it stands the distance between the both the extended bearing races was about 0.75mm wider than the width of the linkage plate. So once together and tight there was play between the linkage and the bearing races of about 0.5mm, causing the pin to be rotating in the linkage and wearing on both pin and linkage. I have since made some thin washers 0.25mm from some shim metal sheet. Placed these on either side of the pin between bearings and linakge, and now it tightens up so the bearings are doing their job and the pin is unable to move inside the linkage plate. Hope that helps?
I am surprised that there are a number frames with the same problem, you would think that there would be higher tolerences for machining of the parts and or quality of bearings.
 
I

IVCrider

Chimp
Jun 24, 2006
85
0
In Traffic
I am having trouble removing the shock. The non drive side upper shock mount has an allen stuck in it thanks to an lbs(So I cannot loosen that side). Then I loosened the upper drive side shock bolt and tried to hammer the pin loose. The pin would not budge and I ended up bending the driveside shock bolt. What should I do? I really don't want to bring it back to the lbs, since they already got an allen stuck in one side. I am also going to need a new driveside upper shock bolt. Where can I get one?
 
Ginger Ninja

Ginger Ninja

Chimp
Oct 25, 2004
43
0
Australia
tomyum said:
Ok, I've had my 08 sunday world cup for 18 days now, very pleased with it until now.
I've noticed that there is already play in the lower linkage directly connecting to the rear triangle....
Click to expand...
Same thing has happened to my '08 WC frame. I might try some spacers and see if it helps.
 
C

CarlE

Monkey
Jan 7, 2008
109
0
Long Island, NY
IVCrider said:
I am having trouble removing the shock. The non drive side upper shock mount has an allen stuck in it thanks to an lbs(So I cannot loosen that side). Then I loosened the upper drive side shock bolt and tried to hammer the pin loose. The pin would not budge and I ended up bending the driveside shock bolt. What should I do? I really don't want to bring it back to the lbs, since they already got an allen stuck in one side. I am also going to need a new driveside upper shock bolt. Where can I get one?
Click to expand...
What year Sunday?
 
Jason4

Jason4

Monkey
Aug 27, 2008
338
0
Bellingham
I just mounted a Vivid on my '07 7point and now I have a few questions. It doesn't seem like very many people have done this yet.

I used a couple of spring calculators and came up with the recomendation of a 400# spring on both of them for 30-35% sag at 185# body weight. It seems like its pretty close to the correct amount of sag but it seems like it is over damped even with all the settings backed out all the way. Do I need to have the shock revalved with a "Sunday-tune" for the 7point and does the spring rate seem correct compared to what other people are running? I had a DHX 3.0 air shock on it before this one but wasn't happy with the way it bottomed out.

Mind you this is just jumping on the bike in the garage but I'm a little paranoid about how well it's going to ride since I'm off to Whistler tomorrow morning for 5 days and don't want to regret riding a new shock.

I was also looking at the position of the shock and was wondering if it will work to mount it upside down. Every picture I could find of a 7point shows the reservior hanging from the top of the shock but it looks like there would be room to mount it with the reservoir at the bottom to reduce unsprung weight and make access to the rebound adjuster a little easier. Any comments or experience with this? My concern is that the reservoir will hit the downtube and I don't want to fight the piston eyelet sleeve out and back in just to find that out and have to do it all over again.

Thanks for any insight.
 
C

-C-

Monkey
May 27, 2007
296
10
Something I need some help with - simple one for those in the know!

What is the seatclamp size for a Sunday? I know the post, but I can't find anything giving me the clamp size!

Thanka
 
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CarlE

Monkey
Jan 7, 2008
109
0
Long Island, NY
IVCrider said:
It's a 2007
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We have shock pin sets (upper and lower) for $17.

The pin is only going to come out in one direction, towards the 5mm allen key. You may be forced to drill/cut it out. The shock pin is hollow so you may be able to drill it out through the 5mm side, essentially drilling out the threaded portion of the bolt, if you have a long enough bit. I've never had to drill one out so I don't have a standard procedure, just kinda throwing things out there. Let me know how it goes.
 
liqwid

liqwid

Chimp
Jan 23, 2008
20
13
Denver, CO
Speaking of Avalanche I still have the 06 linkage and noticed some good wear marks on the pivot pins (Looks like some dirt got in there). Its not bad yet but looks like it will be one day. Are these available somewhere or do I have to upgrade to the more recent linkage when this wears out? I'd like to stay with the 06 as I can run an Avalanche Woodie.. . next year.

Edit: Make that a Chubie.
 
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CarlE

Monkey
Jan 7, 2008
109
0
Long Island, NY
liqwid said:
Speaking of Avalanche I still have the 06 linkage and noticed some good wear marks on the pivot pins (Looks like some dirt got in there). Its not bad yet but looks like it will be one day. Are these available somewhere or do I have to upgrade to the more recent linkage when this wears out? I'd like to stay with the 06 as I can run an Avalanche Woodie.. . next year.

Edit: Make that a Chubie.
Click to expand...
Are you looking for the pivot axle or the lower link? Pivot axle is the same throughout all years on the Sunday. The 06 lower links is out of stock, we only have 08 lower links in stock.
 
liqwid

liqwid

Chimp
Jan 23, 2008
20
13
Denver, CO
CarlE said:
Are you looking for the pivot axle or the lower link? Pivot axle is the same throughout all years on the Sunday. The 06 lower links is out of stock, we only have 08 lower links in stock.
Click to expand...
I'm just looking for the pivot axle, I thought they changed from 06 to 07+. Good to know if they didn't change. Any idea on the cost?
 
DHracer1067

DHracer1067

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2003
1,189
0
somewhere really ****ty
Is anyone riding the sunday thats only around 135 pounds or so? If so what spring weight are you using? I think the 300lb that came with the bike is too stiff but can't seem to find anything lighter for the dhx. I was thinking I would need around a 250-275 weight. any idea on where to find one?
 
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cubebiker

Chimp
Apr 9, 2008
88
0
Hi,

small problem: My lower shock bolt won't come out. I loosened those sunk bolts, but the shoxk pin itself is not moving. I tried with a rubber hammer from the drive side towards the non drive side. But absolutely no movement.
What can I do?
 
S

SpasticJack

Monkey
Feb 25, 2002
344
0
cubebiker said:
Hi,

small problem: My lower shock bolt won't come out. I loosened those sunk bolts, but the shoxk pin itself is not moving. I tried with a rubber hammer from the drive side towards the non drive side. But absolutely no movement.
What can I do?
Click to expand...
What year is your frame? 2007-08 frames need to have the pin driven out from drive side toward non-drive side. there is a shoulder that will prevent it from coming out toward the drive side.

For 05-06 frames the pin should come out either direction. I always had luck threading a longer bolt into one side, putting a T-handle hex wrench in it and knocking on the T-handle with a hammer. Be gentle but this should get it out.
 
C

cubebiker

Chimp
Apr 9, 2008
88
0
It is a 2008 Factory frame. I'll try to knock harder then...If it still doesn't come out I will lose those Hex Bolts. Could that work?
 
Udi

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,918
1,213
Countersunk hex bolts must be removed (4mm key) to remove the pin. At the very least you need to remove the drive side one completely, and loosen off the non-drive one.

But yeah basically the pin is held onto the drive side pivot by that countersunk bolt, while the same bolt on the non-drive side forces the pin to expand (when tightened) which clamps it inside the pivot (part that takes a 22mm socket).

My method is to remove both countersunk bolts, thread a long bolt into the drive side partially (M6 thread, at least ~80mm long preferably) and give the long bolt a few hits with the hammer. Grease the pin well on re-installation, but keep the countersunk bolts and female threads clean and use red (262) loctite on them. Blue (242/243) tends to come loose.
 
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C

cubebiker

Chimp
Apr 9, 2008
88
0
Well, the thing won't come out. I have now taken out the big Hex bolts and the two countersunk bolts. Now there is just the Pin left, going throug the lower link and by the way through the eye of the shox. I have hammered that thin like crazy, but there is absolutely no movment. Any help please.
 
D

davep

Turbo Monkey
Jan 7, 2005
3,276
0
seattle
First, before you destroy something, stop and soak the parts with some penetating oil like PB Blaster, kroil, or liquid wrench and let it sit...

while waiting, pull up the sunday schematic drawing that is on the first page here as well as the IH web site and understand what you are doing. Replace the large aluminum hex nuts as they hold the bearing in and have nothing to do with the shock pin.

Now you can make a puller easily. You just need a large washer (maybe several) or plate or thick piece of wood with a hole of some sort and some 6mm bolts. With all lower pin bolts removed....Put the plate/washer/wood over the non-drive side of the pin and find a 6mm bolt that is long enough to thread a good amount into the pin and will tighten against the plate/washer/wood. Grease the bolt threads and thread it in and snug it up. Give it a good tightening (about what you can do by hand with the proper allen whench. Now take another long 6mm bolt and thread it a good bit into the drive side. Tap the drive side bolt (a dead blow is a big help and the proper tool for this) a few times. Now go and tighten the 'puller' 1/4 turn or so. Tap the drive side again....then tighten....tap ..tighten etc. Durring this procedure, you should not have any force on the shock. Any weight on the bike will tend to bind the lower shock eye against the pin and make removal more difficult.

This is a perfect example of why full sus bikes should be gone through completely before riding them....greasing and loc-titing the appropriate interfaces. This also allows practicing the proper removal procedures and techniques in a non-stress environment before anything is dirty/greasy/broken/stuck/etc.
 
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C

CarlE

Monkey
Jan 7, 2008
109
0
Long Island, NY
liqwid said:
I'm just looking for the pivot axle, I thought they changed from 06 to 07+. Good to know if they didn't change. Any idea on the cost?
Click to expand...
We wouldn't typically sell just the pivot axle, it would be that whole pivot if we have enough were we're not breaking up a pivot kit. Figure on $19.99 with bearings. A full pivot kit runs $70 for a 06 Sunday.
 
C

cubebiker

Chimp
Apr 9, 2008
88
0
davep said:
while waiting, pull up the sunday schematic drawing that is on the first page here as well as the IH web site and understand what you are doing. Replace the large aluminum hex nuts as they hold the bearing in and have nothing to do with the shock pin.

Now you can make a puller easily. You just need a large washer (maybe several) or plate or thick piece of wood with a hole of some sort and some 6mm bolts. With all lower pin bolts removed....Put the plate/washer/wood over the non-drive side of the pin and find a 6mm bolt that is long enough to thread a good amount into the pin and will tighten against the plate/washer/wood. Grease the bolt threads and thread it in and snug it up. Give it a good tightening (about what you can do by hand with the proper allen whench. Now take another long 6mm bolt and thread it a good bit into the drive side. Tap the drive side bolt (a dead blow is a big help and the proper tool for this) a few times. Now go and tighten the 'puller' 1/4 turn or so. Tap the drive side again....then tighten....tap ..tighten etc. Durring this procedure, you should not have any force on the shock. Any weight on the bike will tend to bind the lower shock eye against the pin and make removal more difficult.
Click to expand...

Hi, thank you for your great help. I did all that. And you maybe won't believe, but the pin is still stuck in the shock... I don't know what to do anymore. But I could localize the problem a bit. It seems like the pin is stuck in the lower link. I can rotate the reducers.... I also succeeded hammering a screwdriver into the expanding side and I can now rotate the pin. But that is about it. How can something be rotated but not hammered out :shocked:
I will make a picture later, so you can see how far I got...
Cubebiker
 
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X

xemini

Monkey
Nov 4, 2004
255
0
it only looks like that because the big hex bolts are off, mine is exactly the same, i cannot get the pin out no matter what, the pin will rotate but theres no way it will come out
 
C

CarlE

Monkey
Jan 7, 2008
109
0
Long Island, NY
xemini said:
it only looks like that because the big hex bolts are off, mine is exactly the same, i cannot get the pin out no matter what, the pin will rotate but theres no way it will come out
Click to expand...
Have you guys tried rotating while hitting it with a mallet from the other side? Now that the shock pin is rotating this really has me baffled.

Cubebiker- What side of the bike is that picture taken from? Looks like the non-drive side but I wanted to be sure.
 
C

cubebiker

Chimp
Apr 9, 2008
88
0
CarlE said:
Have you guys tried rotating while hitting it with a mallet from the other side? Now that the shock pin is rotating this really has me baffled.

Cubebiker- What side of the bike is that picture taken from? Looks like the non-drive side but I wanted to be sure.
Click to expand...
Yes it is the non drive side. The only explanation I have for this is that it must be somehow bent and now cannot come out. Will try some hydraulic stuff at a garage tomorrow.
@xemini: How did you solve this problem? Or did you just leave it?
 
C

cubebiker

Chimp
Apr 9, 2008
88
0
Hi,
I succeeded in getting it out. I'll make a pic later. It was the pin that was stuck in the shock steel hardware. The two parts, pin and steel pipe came out with the help of a heavy hydraulic press. Never able to give so much power with a mallet. So, final question before reassembly: Grease the pin and the shock hardware and loctite the to countersunk bolts?
 
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